Fusion Radio in Eastern Pennsylvania

[pastormg2]

I was on the K3PDR D-Star net last evening which is on Reflector 20. I heard some gentlemen talking about Fusion which is from Yaesu. I see a bunch of repeaters in the State of Pennsylvania and quite a few are local repeaters in the area.

My main question is this. Is the digital part of this technology being used currently, or just Analog? Also I did see some that would have D-Star capability in the future. The problem I have with my D-Star is that I don't live really close to a D-Star repeater other then the Eagleville one that is about 5 miles away. I can't even access K3PDR on 5 watts.

To access the different reflectors I have to use a DVAP which is connected to my computer. I see the Yaesu Fusion HT is about 430.00. Does anyone know that much about this technology that they could give me some advice?

Thanks! Mark Griffin, KB3Z

 

[WA0CBW]

The Yaesu Fusion digital technology is based on C4FM. The radios (and repeaters) can operate in several modes; analog, digital, or AMS (automatic mode select). This allows several types of communications such as all analog or all digital. In addition it will operate as analog to digital or digital to analog. It will also operate in an automatic selection or fixed mode. Fusion WIRES X is the interface to the internet. This is accomplished by using an interface box (HRI-200) and a Fusion digital radio. The WIRES X connection to the internet is called a node. A node can be local or through a repeater connected to an HRI-200. The internet connection is to a virtual room. A room is associated to a node and is a virtual gathering place. There are hundreds of rooms (all American Kansas-City; etc.) Currently the Yaesu Fusion radios only support Fusion digital.

That should get you started. Check out the Yaesu Fusion site for more information.
BB

 

[pastormg2]

I understand the possibilities, but I guess I am wondering how widely the new technology is being used? Not sure how much it is being used in Eastern Pennsylvania. Mark Griffin, KB3Z

 

[JimNS3K]

Fusion seems to be growing at a pretty good rate at the present time. May g I've Dstar a run for its money in the not too distant future.


Jim,NS3K

 

[KE5MC]

I understand the possibilities, but I guess I am wondering how widely the new technology is being used? Not sure how much it is being used in Eastern Pennsylvania. Mark Griffin, KB3Z

Difficult to answer your question as the only metric I know is something like a Repeater Book sort on Fusion mode. This tells you what it is, but because the repeater can be set for automatic mode both analog and Fusion signal will pass thru it.

In the FtWorth-Dallas Metroplex many Yaesu repeaters were replacing aging analog ones because of the price point. When first installed it was typical for a lot of digital QSOs with operators that had HTs or mobiles. Once the novelty wore off it seems most QSOs have been analog.

Surprised you can't hit the D-Star stack only 5 miles away. Might be time to try you had at a simple Yagi to see if you can improve that connection.

Mike

 

[popnokick]

Yes - 5 miles on Dstar... whether UHF or VHF... should be a piece of cake. Something is not right with your configuration, antenna, coax.... any of those.

 

[chief21]

It sounds like the OP is using a HT, most probably in an urban setting (north philadelphia?). I can think of lots of reasons why a HT in such circumstances wouldn't make a 5-mile trip.

John AC4JK

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Actually there is an open well published setup to add DStar compatibility to a fusion repeater. It uses an aftermarket controller and hardware is interfaced via the I/O port on the repeater.

Now, Yaesu has been running a promotion for fusion repeaters (was $500 NOW $600) with some fine print involved. As also stated many are simply being left in either AMS mode or AMS in/analog out. Really doesn't provide much of an incentive for hams to upgrade but eh. The repeater hardware isn't great. However, considering these are being used to replace old crystal controlled 100% duty Micors, Mastr IIs, etc that now have 4+ decades of service that newer hams just don't know how to work on, a turnkey repeater with touchscreen programming seems really awesome.

Personally, I'll never buy a fusion radio. I have no need for Yaesu's re-invented wheel but I can certainly understand the appeal to hams.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[djs13pa]

Issue I've seen is the Fusion repeaters can't hack it at full power. So they have crank them way back.

I got an FT1D on the cheap (enough I couldn't resist it.) makes a decent APRS ht. Crappy programming software. Menu nightmare as all Yaesu's are. Good size and weight though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Issue I've seen is the Fusion repeaters can't hack it at full power. So they have crank them way back.

I got an FT1D on the cheap (enough I couldn't resist it.) makes a decent APRS ht. Crappy programming software. Menu nightmare as all Yaesu's are. Good size and weight though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's really the first repeater Yaesu has ever built. People who design systems in the commercial market don't necessarily understand that any amateur grade repeater needs to be rated for 100% duty at it's rated power output...just like a Public Safety grade repeater.

They can handle 100% at 20W but not at 50W. Some run them at 5 or 10W with an amplifier.

 

[ButchGone]

To answer OP, you have a couple of options. As stated, try a better antenna.
Or, set up your own personal hot spot to connect your radio to either the WIRES-X network or DStar network.
The DVAP works very well with Dstar, and basically allows you to acces other Dsatr repeaters and reflectors at your choosing by using the functions available on the radio. I have one that works well on a Mac ( my preferred system) or on a windows based PC.
A DV4 mini works like a DVAP, but is limited to either a windows based machine or Linux. A nice feature is that it will allow you to access the DStar, WIRES-X or DMR gateways.
With either a laptop or a raspberry Pi, you can use either of those devices at home, on the road or at another location that has acces to WiFi. You don't need repeaters.
Now, if you have the funds, try a Nano DV...a very nice all in one solution that's about the size of an iPhone and works like a DV 4 mini.
In my area there are seven DStar repeaters and five Fusion repeaters available. Fusion gets very little activity, but there is more activity on the DStar machines than all the analog machines combined because four of the seven DStar repeaters are permanently connected to reflectors. You will always find somewhere around the the world to connect with and have great QSOs with DStar.
BG..

 

[w8prr]

Yaesu made a deal sometime back that allowed radio clubs to purchase fusion repeaters at very low cost. Was a smart marketing move. Get the repeaters out there and then radios will sell. (The local club I belong to bought them, now I have to buy a new radio!)

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Yaesu made a deal sometime back that allowed radio clubs to purchase fusion repeaters at very low cost. Was a smart marketing move. Get the repeaters out there and then radios will sell. (The local club I belong to bought them, now I have to buy a new radio!)

It was $500 and now it is $600. All things said you can build a much better analog repeater for just a little more and by the time you address the places where Yaesu cut cost you just about break even.

Roughly 90% of the YSF repeaters that were purchased were put into mixed mode operation and about 75% of those force analog out...not much incentive to upgrade if you ask me.

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[wb0wao]

One of ours is in AMS, the other analog (until the interface board is installed to let the controller play nicely with it) but will be going to AMS shortly. I have noticed that a lot of the Fusion repeaters are being set up by mid-size and smaller clubs who can't "politically afford" to pull an existing analog repeater out of operation and place a repeater that forces users to buy one or more new radios to use. If Icom would bring out a dual-mode repeater for analog and D-Star then it may be a different story, but until then IMHO D-Star will barely grow and Fusion will continue to make inroads. Heck, you can now get a 2m Fusion radio for ~ $180!

 

[N8OHU]

One of ours is in AMS, the other analog (until the interface board is installed to let the controller play nicely with it) but will be going to AMS shortly. I have noticed that a lot of the Fusion repeaters are being set up by mid-size and smaller clubs who can't "politically afford" to pull an existing analog repeater out of operation and place a repeater that forces users to buy one or more new radios to use. If Icom would bring out a dual-mode repeater for analog and D-Star then it may be a different story, but until then IMHO D-Star will barely grow and Fusion will continue to make inroads. Heck, you can now get a 2m Fusion radio for ~ $180!

I honestly don't know why folks think Icom made a mistake by not designing and selling a dual-mode repeater; think they would have run into exactly the same sort of things with one that Yaesu has, right down to folks buying it with no intention of ever using it as a digital repeater.

 

[wb0wao]

I honestly don't know why folks think Icom made a mistake by not designing and selling a dual-mode repeater; think they would have run into exactly the same sort of things with one that Yaesu has, right down to folks buying it with no intention of ever using it as a digital repeater.

I base my opinion on:

1) Most repeaters are owned by general interest clubs/groups.
2) Most of these clubs/groups have 1 or 2 repeaters.
3) D-Star repeaters will not work with analog signals.
4) To use the new $2500 repeater, you have to buy a new radio.

It is a matter of simple economics and politics in a club. Not only will the club have to pay $2500 for the RF deck and controller, if you want to use the repeater you need to shell out around $300 - $400 for a new rig. All of the current user base's existing gear won't work on the new repeater. Try getting that motion passed at your average ham club!

I know that you are a big D-Star supporter, and I respect that. I have nothing at all against D-Star and I think it is a decent system. The fact is, however, that your average ham club won't take an analog repeater out of service that is being used by lots of club members and replace it with a repeater that obsoletes everyone's equipment and requires them to buy all new gear. That is the point that I was trying to make - Yaesu made the DR-1X dual mode so that the existing user base would still be able to access the repeater and the hams who went and got Fusion equipment would be able to use it as well. That is why IMHO Fusion will continue to grow while D-Star will stagnate. It isn't a matter of which mode is the best, but which mode will allow the existing users to continue using that repeater.

Also, the reasons that a number of them are in Analog/Analog is two-fold. First there is the issue with some of the S-Com controllers that don't allow AMS/AMS without some modification. We have this issue ourselves as I pointed out. Second is a training issue with the users on how to operate on a dual mode repeater. Both of these can be addressed and resolved with some time and effort.

 

[AK9R]

Folks, the OP asked about SystemFusion activity in Eastern PA. This is not the thread for debating the pros and cons of the Yaesu SystemFusion repeater. Please stay on topic.

 

[dmaria]

I honestly don't know why folks think Icom made a mistake by not designing and selling a dual-mode repeater; think they would have run into exactly the same sort of things with one that Yaesu has, right down to folks buying it with no intention of ever using it as a digital repeater.

Not necessarily. Icom does make a commercial repeater using NXDN that automatically switches between analog and digital (and so do the mobiles and handhelds). I have one of the handhelds and a local club has a repeater. It all works without a hitch. So Icom has the tech, but I suspect Yeasu is still learning, and it's going to be an expensive trip of everyone involved (including me).

 

[N8OHU]

Not necessarily. Icom does make a commercial repeater using NXDN that automatically switches between analog and digital (and so do the mobiles and handhelds). I have one of the handhelds and a local club has a repeater. It all works without a hitch. So Icom has the tech, but I suspect Yeasu is still learning, and it's going to be an expensive trip of everyone involved (including me).

True, but their Commercial division was working with Kenwood's to design the NXDN protocol at the time, and commercial requirements are different than amateur ones.

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[AK9R]

Folks, the OP hasn't participated in this thread for nearly 2 months and some of you continue to make off-topic posts. We're done there. Thread closed.

Here's a thread where you can talk about Yaesu SystemFusion repeater problems:

http://forums.radioreference.com/di...95-yaesu-system-fusion-repeater-problems.html

And, here's a thread where you can discuss the pros and cons of System Fusion:

http://forums.radioreference.com/digital-voice-amateur-use/326564-why-yaesu-system-fusion.html