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Digital Voice for Amateur Use - Discuss use of digital voice technologies on the amateur radio bands. This is to include technologies such as VoIP, P25, DMR/TRBO, NXDN, D-STAR, etc.

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Old 01-10-2017, 9:36 AM
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Default Got a DMR problem

Recently picked up two Baofeng dm-5r radios, one a regular dm-5 and the other is a plus version. I also have a TYT 390. The 390 transmitts audio to the BAOFENGS, but the Baofengs do not transmitt audio to the each other but it transmitts audio to the TYT 390.
The Baofengs indicate with a green light that a signal has been detected but no audio Baofeng to Baofeng, when in the digital mode. In analog mode, audio appears nornal. They do transmit digital audio back to the TYT 390. The Baofengs have different id's, both set on CC1, slot 1,group and contact set to alls call.
I don't have any DMR repeaters in this area but there are applications where simplex DMR can be put to use.

So if anybody has the solutions to my limited knowledge, I would appreciate your thoughts.
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Old 01-10-2017, 12:15 PM
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I returned my DM-5R+ and after three months of waiting finally received my refund after filing a PayPal dispute.

The sad fact is that these radios are totally incompatible with the DMR Tier2 format used by MD-380, MD390, Motorola XPR series, et cetera.

That said, your pair of them should at least be able to communicate between each other in either analog or DMR Tier1 modes.
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Old 01-10-2017, 4:38 PM
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OH i KNOW THAT MUCH, Tier 1 etc, but there are some things that can be done, outside of a repeater that these should be good for. Just can't figure out why I can not talk radio to radio with the Baofengs but can talk Baofeng to tyt and then back to Baofeng. We really don't have any DMR repeaters around where I live but the added "confidentiality " that digital offers has some uses. They are inexpensive and will allow me to learn about programming DMR radios before I jump to something better. Digital comms and the FCC, the rules are funny. We can talk analog, but if parties jump to digital , and leave the analog people out, that is fine by the rules. If we are talking digital and parties go to anaklog scramble, this is a no no by the FCC rules but youy have done pretty much the same thing going from analog to digital. Some or most are left out of the conversation depending on availability of equipment. Now we have digital, 3 or 4 different forms of digital, again thats ok by the FCC but again depending on availability of equipment, some or most are left out of the conversation. Now digital has encryption and communications are limited between different digital formats, this is not okay by the FCC standards. WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?
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Old 01-10-2017, 5:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teufler View Post
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?
As long as the digital code used is publicly documented and not encrypted then it's legal. You can even invent your own.

There is no mention in part 97 of not having the necessary equipment to receive it or not being smart enough to figure out what digital code, protocol or format somebody is using.
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Old 01-11-2017, 1:57 PM
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Thats what I have been asking, whats the difference. Two radios talking analog, pretty much everyone can listen. If the two radios jump to digital, maybe a few can listen but that depends on equipment . Say the club has a rapid response team, their radios are programmed the same, and they jump to encrypted comms. The few that could listen are the members of the team, just as radios in the vicinity could listen to digital and some could not. FCC approves one and not the other, yet the end result is pretty much the same result. If two hams are using aprs, not on the international aprs frequency, and they send text messages back and forth, the only people that could "listen" are those that happen to stumble on to the frequency. These are ways that confidental comms arfe completed by amateur radio but encryption is not approved. The end result is the same thing. Its an oxymoron.
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Old 01-11-2017, 3:27 PM
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It's a stupid carryover from Cold War paranoia.There's no logically defensible reason why Wi-Fi and business comms (not to mention most internet connections) can (and should) be encrypted, but amateur comms cannot.
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Old 01-11-2017, 3:52 PM
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wELL IN A WAY, going from analog to digital, you may as well say its encrypted to those who only have analog equipment. Yes this is a stupid rule. Amateur comms, going to digital for most scanner people, its the same as detecting an encrypted signal. We can't understand it. Actually amateur comms when digital most amateurs can noty understand. In our ham club, of 115 members, maybe 5 have digital capabilities of one mode or another, but cross mode understanding is far and few between.
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Old 01-11-2017, 7:56 PM
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Encoded is not the same as encrypted. With digital encoding such as DMR, receiving an intelligible message only requires buying a publicly available receiver that conforms to published specs.

With encryption, you can't receive the message unless you have all of that, the encryption algorithm, and the key.
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Old 01-11-2017, 9:56 PM
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Yes in the long run, anyone can buy the necessary equipment and listen in. But in the short run, if hams switch to digital, any format, analog users will be left in the cold, just as an encrypted transmission would generate the same results.
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