next-edge
- Thread starter HOLEBILLY
- Start date
- Status
Before buying a Kenwood radio i would verify that they are not encrypted. Most likley they are using 6.25 bandwidth so you could use a Kenwood or Icom to listen. Using a actual radio would give you a more consistent audio plus be more portable, however taping your current scanner can be cheaper.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I'd recommend going with the Kenwood. Here's why:
Unless you need to specifically listen to IDAS trunking systems, the Kenwood will give you some more flexibility.
NXDN (the format that IDAS and NexEdge use) comes in two flavors, Narrow and Very Narrow. Narrow uses a 12.5KHz wide channel, Very Narrow uses a 6.25KHz wide channel.
Icom IDAS radios will ONLY do the Very Narrow NXDN.
Kenwood NexEdge radios will do both.
The two types are NOT interchangeable, in other words, you cannot listen to a 12.5KHz system on an Icom radio. Also, the Icom and Kenwood trunking is not compatible.
Not an issue if you will only ever be listening to an Icom system.
Hand held radios for VHF:
NX-210 (larger frame radio)
NX-200
NX-220
NX-240 (lower cost, no trunking)
Mobile radios for VHF:
NX-700
NX-720
Unless you need to specifically listen to IDAS trunking systems, the Kenwood will give you some more flexibility.
NXDN (the format that IDAS and NexEdge use) comes in two flavors, Narrow and Very Narrow. Narrow uses a 12.5KHz wide channel, Very Narrow uses a 6.25KHz wide channel.
Icom IDAS radios will ONLY do the Very Narrow NXDN.
Kenwood NexEdge radios will do both.
The two types are NOT interchangeable, in other words, you cannot listen to a 12.5KHz system on an Icom radio. Also, the Icom and Kenwood trunking is not compatible.
Not an issue if you will only ever be listening to an Icom system.
Hand held radios for VHF:
NX-210 (larger frame radio)
NX-200
NX-220
NX-240 (lower cost, no trunking)
Mobile radios for VHF:
NX-700
NX-720
This is true only of the way the control data works, the voice protocol is the same. Unless you have the System key you can only decode the voice of either sysstem with the Icom. The Kenwood recognizes the trunking and will not decode it in conventional.
Huron County is currently using 6.25 NXDN and the majority of future NXDN will all be 6.25Khz.
So for Huron either brand will work it's just up to you what else you would like to listen to.
RonnieUSA
Member
I have listened to NXDN, and I must say it is much clearer , then P 25. It's not grabbled, ut is clear as a bell.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Right, but since the control channel is required for a radio to work on a trunking system, an Icom won't work on a Kenwood system and a Kenwood won't work on an Icom system. Doesn't matter if the voice protocol is the same, the two trunking systems are not compatible. If you are trying to just monitor the system, the Icom in your best option if and only if the Kenwood system is using 6.25KHz channels. Not all of them do.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yep, P25 is a much older technology. It's been in the works for over 20 years now. NXDN does a much better job with the audio when you compare them side by side. That is, of course, if the guy who set the NXDN system did it correctly.
As kc0wkp mentioned I would highly recommend going the DSD route at first to confirm they are not using encryption. Why spend hundreds on a radio only to find out that they are....
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
- Messages
- 893
Will P25 Phase II make a difference in voice clarity over P25 Phase I?
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I don't know, haven't hear any yet in operation. I can't imagine TDMA is going to sound better than FDMA, but I could be proven wrong.
n1das
Member
I have actually gotten rid of my NEXEDGE (NXDN) capability in favor of DMR/MotoTRBO. DMR is also rapidly gaining popularity in the ham community. I have a Hytera DMR repeater all built up and ready to go on the air on 440.
The DMR (2-slot TDMA) audio totally blows NXDN and P25 away in clarity and overall quality. The digital funkiness in the audio make them all have a nasal quality to it (sounds like someone talking with their nose plugged) but with DMR the difference is night and day compared to the others. DMR gets my vote for audio quality. I would expect P25 Phase II to offer a similar improvement.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
It would be interesting to hear an unbiased comparison of them all. I almost bought a MotoTrbo system at work, but we used NPSPAC frequencies and Motorola specifically blocked those, at least they did at the time. Pretty much left me with NexEdge as our only reasonable option. MotoTrbo sounded acceptable when we trailed it, but not impressive. After running the NexEdge system for about 2 years now, I've had the time to tweak it out properly and am happy with it. P25 always sounded crappy when I've used it, but not running a P25 system myself, I'm not sure if they were set up properly or not. All I know is that I wasn't impressed. For the price, I'd expect a whole lot better. It'll be interesting to see if Phase 2 sounds better.
slicerwizard
Member
I love comments that claim that one format (DMR / AMBE +2) blows away another one (NXDN / AMBE +2), even though they use the exact same voice codec with the exact same parameters (payload and ECC bandwidth, interleave schedule, yadda yadda)
Oh yeah, P25 phase 2? Also AMBE +2...
Ironically, motoTRBO always sounded WORSE to my ear than P25. I think it has less to do with the codec, and more to do with the quality of microphone and parts in a cheap Motorola XPR6550 vs. an XTS5000. I think system setup also plays a huge part in it, like mmckenna said.
Digital is digital, if it is set up right you will hear little difference, the newer vocoders make a huge difference on P25. Now when you start comparing 6.25 to 12.5 Khz signal you can sometimes hear a compression difference.
That being said, I am a P25 guy. I use a P25 trunking system, Conventional P25, IDAS trunking, and NXDN Conventional at work regularly and I would pick P25 any day of the week for voice quality.
rapidcharger
Member
I can give you one.
I really could care less either way.
On conventional/ham, I think p25 sounds the best, next NXDN, then DMR at the bottom of the sound quality scale.
But please note that your radio and the radio being used on the other end makes a difference. For p25, I'm using a Motorola XTS series, current firmware. Many of the older P25 radios and kewood and iCOM p25 radios do not sound good on the receiving end. On NXDN, I am using iCOMS, both portables and mobiles. My portable is rather old, being the first iDAS capable portable ever made. The mobiles sound better than the portable but the portable still sounds better to me than DMR. On DMR, I am using a Motorola XPR 6350, firmware version 8 (I Think). The stations on the other end are using mostly 6550's and 7550's. The other stations sound better when they use a 7550 than on a 6550 and I sound better to them.
So how do you know this is really unbiased? Well, The ones I think sound the best I actually use the least. Most of my activity is on DMR and I find it rather painful at times to listen to because of how nasally it sounds. I suppose that some people are more sensitive to that than others but I've heard better quality audio come across iden handsets. Another problem I've noticed is that even though they swear AGC is turned off, some stations will be insanely loud and others will be normal volume. The 7550 has built in volume control to compensate for that automatically, but I don't have one.
As a result, I find myself using the radio with one finger on the volume knob so when the loud station comes on, I can lower it. I'll take DMR over a scratchy crappy analog signal any day of the week but DMR is my least favorite sounding of the bunch. And again, it's the one I use the most.
I have noticed similar coverage from both the DMR and NXDN repeaters which are in pretty much the same place. The p25 repeater is about the same distance away but in another direction and higher up. I can hit that one the easiest with a portable inside my basement from 35 miles away.
A note about NARROW vs VERY NARROW, I had the opportunity to listen to a public safety agency using Nexedge in VN and they of course sounded great on my iCOMs but one day they switched, yes switched (I heard they were having some problems), to NARROW and I could no longer pick them up.
The moral of the story is the agency you want to monitor can change without warning. With a kenwood, you won't have as much of a risk but kenwoods do generally cost a lot more on the used market. I have heard of someone trying to use an iCOM to circumvent Kenwood subscriber authentication on a trunking system. I didn't hear the outcome.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
