Question about Trunking

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Caltalk

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I have a few old out dated police radio scanners. I am thinking of buying a new trunking scanner. My main purpose would be to listen to the local police. I live in Hamilton Ontario.

Before i purchase a trunking scanner, i want to determine if it will enable me to listen to the Hamilton police. I don't know how to determine if their frequencies and mode for communication, would be open to scanner listening. i suppose I should not call them and ask.

Here is what I have been able to find on the net: Can someone tell me if a trunking scanner would work?

Thank-you

System Name: Hamilton
Location: Hamilton, ON
County: Hamilton
System Type: Motorola Type II Smartnet
System Voice: Analog
Last Updated: Updated Function Tag assignments for 12 talkgroups
Hits: 11833

System ID List

System ID Connect Tone
4B1C Unknown

Latest News Update Posted on 2002-01-20 02:53:45
868.2500 Police Simplex (107.2hz)
868.3500 ERU Simplex
868.4500 Fire Simplex (107.2hz)
868.6000 Works Simplex

867.1625 MDT
867.6625 MDT


Misc System Information
Many talkgroups are from the premerger Region of Hamilton-Wentworth days and are obsolete.

Hamilton Police Services have a separate Astro Smartzone system for their Intelligence services. All other Police Service talkgroups can be found on this system.
 

Forts

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Basically any analog trunk tracking scanner will do the trick for you. If you want to plan ahead a little (or just be proactive) you may want to look at a digital model (depends what your budget is too).

If I was in your situation I would take a scroll thru ebay. Do a search for 'trunk scanner' or 'trunk tracker' and see what turns up. Jot down the model numbers, then take a look in the Wiki here:

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Category:Trunking_Scanners

to see which ones have the features you like. Or, start with the wiki then go on the hunt for the model you want. Feel free to ask any other questions you have, lots of people on here should be able to help you out.

edit: Don't forget to check your local classified and places like Kijiji as well to pick up a used scanner. I've seen basic trunk trackers listed on there from time to time.
 

EJB

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I second what Forts said, I found mine on Craigslist.

You need a simple trunk tracker to monitor Hamilton's system. That said it does not mean that they might not go encrypted in the future.
 

Caltalk

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Thanks

Thanks Forts and EJB.

I appreciate the help and advice. One other question. I have an old Radio Shack Pro 800 Base station scanner. It does receive the 800 Mhz range, but I imagine that despite that, I would still need a trunking unit to get the police properly?

Thank-you again

Cal
 

EJB

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Thanks Forts and EJB.

I appreciate the help and advice. One other question. I have an old Radio Shack Pro 800 Base station scanner. It does receive the 800 Mhz range, but I imagine that despite that, I would still need a trunking unit to get the police properly?

Thank-you again

Cal

You are correct. You need a scanner that allows for trunking.
 

Caltalk

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Bought My Scanner

Hi:

Thanks for all your help and advice. After getting the answers to the questions i posted, I finally made a decision as to what scanner I am buying. I ordered this one:

http://www.durhamradio.com/bc246-trunktracker-iii-scanner.html

It will take a week or two to arrive as I ordered it to be shipped. In the interim, I have downloaded the manual and am reading it, so that i don't post too many silly questions on here.

I've always used a conventional scanner, so programming a triunk system with talk Id s , tags, groups and the like, may prove a little daunting. I am also trying to read some of the articles on the net, to get a better sense. Having said all that, if someone has the tops 5 steps to take when programming a trunked scanner for local police reception, I'd appreciate it. Even if it is high level, bullet points. just something so that i can get my head aroudn the steps.

Thanks again. Great advice and friendly tone.

Cal
 

Forts

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Congratulations on your purchase... I had a 246 for quite a while and I'm sure it will serve you well!

A few things you will need to get used to. First, with the newer Uniden scanners you program things in as systems and groups, not banks and channels. For example, using Hamilton as a reference, you would create a new Motorola Type II 800mhz system. Basically this involves programming in the control channels and setting a few other options. From there you create your groups (also called scanlists). You can break these groups down however you want, for example... Group 1 = Police, Group 2 = Fire, Group 3 = Public Works etc etc. In each group you would add in the appropriate talkgroups (police talkgroups into group 1, fire into group 2 and so on). When you are all done, just hit scan and hopefully you are off to the races.

Now at that point, you have a few more options. You can listen in using 'ID Scan' or 'ID Search'. When using ID Scan, the radio will only stop on any active talkgroups that you have stored in your groups (provided of course that the talkgroup isn't locked out and the group is active). With ID Search the radio will stop on any active talkgroup, stored or not (again, unless you have previously locked a particular talkgroup out). ID Search is useful for finding new talkgroups, while ID Scan is nice for just hearing what you want to hear. And since you have your talkgroups stored in groups, you can narrow things down even further. Don't want to hear Public Works right now? Just turn that group off and they are gone. It may seem a little much to take in right now, but once the radio is in your hand you will see how easy it is.

You will also likely want to look into some programming software. The 246 is really quite easy to program by hand, but entering dozens and dozens of alpha tags for talkgroups by hand grows old in a hurry. The most popular program for the 246 is likely Arc246 from Butel. It comes with a free trial and after 30days (I think it's 30 days) you will have to purchase it. You might also want to take a look at www.scannnow.org. They offer a program called FreeScan which is, well, free. Works quite well too. Programming software has some nice features such as being able to directly import systems straight from Radio Reference (you will need to be a paying member of RR though for this feature). It's also nice that if someone else has a city already programmed they could just send you their file (which is a nice learning tool too, as you can see how someone sets things up). Using software is also a much better way of getting a broader view of what you have programmed into your radio, and how it's laid out.

That should give you a little bit to get started on. Feel free to ask away with any other questions,
 

ka3jjz

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It's very important to understand that DMA technology forces you to think in other terms; there are no 'banks' to speak of - you allocate them yourself, out of a pool of available channels.

The hierarchy, for the 246, sits like this;

SYSTEM (highest level)------>Group (there can be many groups-lowest level)

Each system, and group has its own quick key - this allows you to select, or deselect, the frequencies you wish to monitor. In a trunked setting, this can allow you to define 'banks' of talkgroups - that can be activated or deactivated. For example, you could have a system called 'Hamilton PS', and each 'group' would be a set of talkgroups. Setting up a spreadsheet with what you want to hear is a good way to begin visualizing this concept.

Beware, however, of locking everything out - this causes the 'Nothing to Scan' message, and is probably the most common cause of this message.

Keep in mind that this is an analog-only scanner - this means that any digital talkgroups (marked with a 'D' in the Mode column of the database) will be undecodable to you. If you wish to hear certain digital talkgroups out of your Fleetnet system, for example, it won't work. You will need a digital trunktracker for these.

Insofar as trunking is concerned, I assume you are working with this entry;

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=1476

* When you hear 'talkgroup' think 'users'; in a client server world, these would be numerous clients attached to a server. The concepts are not all that different in practice.

* Ignore all the HEX codes for the talkgroup IDs (commonly abbreviated TGid or tgid); the 246 can't use them. Stick with the DEC codes.

* You are limited to entering 16 characters as an alpha tag for the 246

* If you use Control Channel only mode, you need only program the frequencies in red. The scanner will calculate the rest of the frequencies for you.

* Keep this wiki article handy - it has lots of links (underlined and/or in blue) all 246 related...

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/BC246T

* Download the 'Easier to Read' reference manual - it's a better read than the Uniden offering. It's linked in the 'related pages' section of the article above

* Some find it easier to start with a pre loaded file. The file format that seems to be the norm for DMA scanners is known as a UASD (or Uniden Advanced System Director) file - and most software can import this as a data source. If you wish such a file be specific about the scanner you are using - not all software can cross UASD file types. The file layout changes for each of the DMA scanners

* Another option is to get a premium subscription (cheap), and use the web service to download data from the database into the software editor, where you can monkey with it. The wiki article has links to several software packages, some free, that can do this. Both BCTool and FreeScan has this ability. My own preference, to be honest, might lean to BCTool simply because FreeScan tends to throw every option for all scanners on every screen, without isolating it to just one. To me that's a lot for a newcomer to handle. However, we have the FreeScan user guide posted on the wiki - and if you do get BCTool, be sure to get the latest beta, which has several fixes. As for the links...

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/subscription/

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/FreeScan_User_Guide

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/BcTool

Whew! I think that's enough for now...73 Mike
 
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EJB

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I bought that radio about 4 years ago. What I did was look at available files.

While you wait for your radio you can build files that you can download from your computer right on your scanner.

As forts said, download the trial software from Butel. There are files on this site, run by the mod of this group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScanOnt/files/Frequency Files/ARC MEM Files/

Anything that says ARC246 is applicable to your radio. I urge you to look at these files, see what patterns appear (control channel only format, Band plan for Fleetnet). Once you see how they look you will be able to tweek and build your own,

Secondly, Joining this site as a paying member helps but as long as you can cut and paste you can cut the info from the database onto excel files and paste it on the arc software.

If you need any help I live in the area.

E
 

Caltalk

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Thanks

WOW! Thanks for the wealth of knowledge and the time and trouble you've all taken to help me out. I really appreciate it.

The advice was not only praticle, but at the right level for someone like me who is trying to get his head around the difference between scanners of old and those of new.

You've saved me a lot of time and i am sure, grief.

Thanks also for the offer of ongoign help. i will try to respect that offer and not ask anythign that i could find out on my own.

I really appreciate it!!!!!!

Cal
 

Caltalk

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Got My Scanner

Hi folks:

I got my scanner today!!! It was shipped and arrived early ;-)

I am charging the rechareable batteries as i type- they take 16 hours to charge, so i can't use it till tomorrow night when i get home from work.

It comes loaded with all these U.S. stations. Should I be deleting them? or are they useful to have?

Thanks!!!!
 

Caltalk

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Control Channel

Okay.....so i thought I had this figured out but maybe not. I am trying to find the control channels for the Hamilton ontario police. I looked at the database info but I can't figure out which are the control codes for the police.

;-(
 

EJB

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The control channels for the Hamilton system are found here:
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=1476

The control channels are in red.
Set it to C/C only and program it as a Motorola Type 2 Trunked system.

The Pd and Fire and miss talkgroups are at the above site also.

Again, I urge you to either ask for files or get files that are relevant for your area on ARC software yourself. When you download them to the ARC software you can see how they are made and how they look.

I dont have a 246 anymore, there is a member on here from the Hammer who has one, he is on this site & Iam sure if he has time he can send you files. If not I can talk you through stuff.

Once you get going it is easier than it seems, like riding a bike.

Eric
 

Caltalk

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Hi

Hi Eric and thanks again for the tips.

I wanted to get the police channels in early so tha i can at least have somethign to listen to. However, I am also planning to explore the software as well, as I think it will make things much easier to conceptualize and much easier to get info keyed into the unit.

I also note that a subscription here is very reasonable, so i am likely goign to do that. Plus, i've already got my money's worth through the great advice I am getting here.

Cal
 

EJB

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If you are gonna focus in on the PD look to at least enter in the 3 main ones, East, Central and Mountain/Dundas. Note they are not channels but talkgroups.
Doing it by hand for a beginner is kinda hard but then again if you can work a blackberry or text message it is doable.

That said, download the ARC Pro software trial to get start and cut & paste the info and away you go.

Hamilton PD and FDP uses 10 codes alot.

E
 
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Caltalk

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Getting Close but stuck

So...

I have my scvanner hooked up to my computer. I have the BC Tool software installed and it has no trouble finding and communicating with my scanner.

I sent up a system entitled Hamilton

Under that, a group automatically appeared entitled Trunk Frequencies. I created another group entitled Hamilton Police

So now I have two groups.

I focussed on setting up the Police group. I added 21 channels, but nonme of which seem to be picking up anything.

I know it is hard to describe, so here are some screen shots:



www.musicfusion.us/share/scan3.bmp


www.musicfusion.us/share/scan2.bmp


www.musicfusion.us/share/scan1.bmp

After I configured these, I transferred the info to the scanner, and that seemed to work,. But still , it does not seem to be picking anything up.

Any insight would be much appreciated.

Cal
 

Caltalk

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Yahoo!!!

Yahoo!!! Automagically, it began working!!!! Thanks for all of your help. If you have time, please take a look at the screen shots I posted, just in case, but I suddenly began getting the police on the scanner!!!
 

EJB

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Looks good.
There is a 4th control channel that was found for this system but noone sumitted it.
I would enable the ICALL key and change the delay from 5 Sec to 2.

For Ambulance you are going to have to program fleetnet.
Check the sticky on the top of the forum here and the wiki for the Hamilton tower on what you will hear and which talkgroups are active
 

Caltalk

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Thanks

Thank-you. A few more questions:

I am wondering if I should program in the alternate control channels in addition to the red control channels. I notice that most of the activity if from one particular georgraphical area, and it may be that the others are using alternate control channels? Would it hurt to put them in?

Also, when someone is transmitting, I get this drop out in sound, every 4 secoinds or so. It's like there is 4 seconds worth of voice, then abouy a half second drop out of sound, and then the voice continues. It's a little frustrating. Is this a setting i have wron/? Happens on every transission on the police group i set up.

Thanks again. Sorry for the large images. Will use jepg next time.
 
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