Stelco again???

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EJB

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Hi, last nigth while playing around with my scanner in Search c/c only mode I hapenned to come across Stelco's system with a loud control channel of 852.4500.

There was a great deal of activity on it.
Lots of talkgroups.

I tired to build a system on my 396 this morning as a Moto Type 2 as listed in the D/B using ARC basic software but it wont track it.


While using a custom search again the control channel is what it was last nite 852.4500.

Anyone in the area or whom is familiar with this radio system that can give me some programming advice?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. Henderson Hospital may have a Moto trunk system but I havent heard any active talkgroups.
 

hypersight

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Since the control channel ends in a multiple of .025 KHz, try setting up the system as a "Splinter" system if you already haven't done that.
 

EJB

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Thanks, I'll try that.

I noticed that the talkgroups that came up where all over the place. i.e. i would hear a person talk about heat on 12735 and a responce on 9769. Is this part & parcel with splinter Moto systems?
 

EJB

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Dont forget Andrew that I am as numb as they come when it comes to radio tech stuff but I must ask:

Would it be a waste of time for me to submit the talkgroups I log?

Does each and every radio that affialiates with Stelco's system have its own t/g?

There is no other reason to listen to this than to hear just when the plant dumps the sledge into the lake, it sounds like thunder!
 

DaveH

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Would it be a waste of time for me to submit the talkgroups I log?

Does each and every radio that affialiates with Stelco's system have its own t/g?

EJB,

I'd hold off submitting any "talkgroups" until the Type I fleetmap can be
figured out; othewise might result in (unintentionally of course) what in
Monty Pyton parlance would be "what's brown and sounds like a bell?"
(dung!). I've seen this done in the database, and beside being confusing,
next to impossible to track.

Type I systems are becoming less common but every once in a while
it's useful to know how they're set up. A small system near me only recently
started using 3 of 8 fleetmap "blocks", for which there is no way to determine
over the air what they are set up to, if no radios have ever transmitted on
them. Even so, figuring out the block code settings is usually trial/error
and could take some effort.

As Andy said, fleetmap has nothing to do with standard/splinter frequency
plan (800MHz systems). VHF/UHF Moto systems are inherently Type II
so don't use a fleetmap.

The kind of info you just told us is helpful in figuring out the fleetmap i.e.
the apparent "TGs" which are actually radio IDs which depend on which
real Type I TGs the radios are using. There are 8 blocks of 8192 IDs,
therefore up to 8 block size-codes to figure out. The two IDs 12735 and
9769 which are using the same TG (as they are talking to each other)
are more than 2048 apart, which suggests TT block-code S14. If
you feel ambitious, try it, I think it may work.This particular code just
happens to "consume" all blocks at once, so the job might be done.

In general, Type II blocks mixed with Type I blocks. So, I would
start with all blocks defined as Type II, and replace any determined to be
Type I as they are found.

Dave
 
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EJB

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EJB,

I'd hold off submitting any "talkgroups" until the Type I fleetmap can be
figured out; othewise might result in (unintentionally of course) what in
Monty Pyton parlance would be "what's brown and sounds like a bell?"
(dung!). I've seen this done in the database, and beside being confusing,
next to impossible to track.

Type I systems are becoming less common but every once in a while
it's useful to know how they're set up. A small system near me only recently
started using 3 of 8 fleetmap "blocks", for which there is no way to determine
over the air what they are set up to, if no radios have ever transmitted on
them. Even so, figuring out the block code settings is usually trial/error
and could take some effort.

As Andy said, fleetmap has nothing to do with standard/splinter frequency
plan (800MHz systems). VHF/UHF Moto systems are inherently Type II
so don't use a fleetmap.

The kind of info you just told us is helpful in figuring out the fleetmap i.e.
the apparent "TGs" which are actually radio IDs which depend on which
real Type I TGs the radios are using. There are 8 blocks of 8192 IDs,
therefore up to 8 block size-codes to figure out. The two IDs 12735 and
9769 which are using the same TG (as they are talking to each other)
are more than 2048 apart, which suggests TT block-code S14. If
you feel ambitious, try it, I think it may work.This particular code just
happens to "consume" all blocks at once, so the job might be done.

In general, Type II blocks mixed with Type I blocks. So, I would
start with all blocks defined as Type II, and replace any determined to be
Type I as they are found.

Dave

Hi Dave. What I would like to do is to log what talkgroups I can snag.

Would it help to log the talkgroups in sequence i.e. 9769 spoke to 12735?
then 11051 spoke to 9769?

It is a real busy system and within eye shot of me here.

Eric
 

torontokris

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If they were Type 2 since at least 2006 why would they switch to Type 1?
Unless it was already a Type 1 and incorrect in the database
 

DaveH

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Hi Dave. What I would like to do is to log what talkgroups I can snag.

Would it help to log the talkgroups in sequence i.e. 9769 spoke to 12735?
then 11051 spoke to 9769?

Eric

Yes, it would help to correlate as many radio IDs as you can , given
how busy it is. These are not TGs, but individual radio IDs (unlike
what Type II systems display).

If what I think is correct...there is only one possible size-code, and
you could save a lot of time/effort by programming it into a radio (you
have software, right?).

I think the Type I TGs would be of the form 0 000-0, 0 000-1....0 000-15 .
In this case there would be only 16 TGs in the whole system.

Dave
 

DaveH

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If they were Type 2 since at least 2006 why would they switch to Type 1?
Unless it was already a Type 1 and incorrect in the database

As with any database, some "latent" errors may lurk.

As there are no TGs listed, someone may have assumed Type II but never
actually figured it out. I don't think they would have switched from Type II to
I, but you never know, may have bought a used system from someone, which
was already set up as Type I (not likely though).

Let's see what comes out of this exercise...

Dave
 

EJB

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I think the Type I TGs would be of the form 0 000-0, 0 000-1....0 000-15 .
In this case there would be only 16 TGs in the whole system.

Dave: I dont have any trunking software, just a 396 and ARC.
Nothing like something on this site:
http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Discriminator_output

Right now I am picking up what looks like talkgroups

I.E. 18870, 1504, 1294, 12759, ETC.
 
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EJB

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Thanks guys, give me a few days and I will put 2 gether a list of radios acquired.
 

jellotor

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I was probably the one who submitted it after running trunker on it for a week or so. The reason I never submitted any talkgroups was I found it near impossible to figure out what each TG was for. Lots of shorthand, nicknames and jargon.

My purpose for submitting it was to 'check off' another control channel in the area with the proper system frequencies so that anyone who came across it on their scanner and bothered to search the DB would know it was Stelco.
 
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EJB

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There might be a pattern to the Id's/talkgroups I hear.

IIRC correctly, the talkgroups that began with 1's i.e. 1804 sounded like security.

A lot of the other voices are hard to pick up cause they are using company slang or jargon foreign to me, I figure an easy bake oven is the oven they use to boil steel?

Again. I will do what I can and come up with the best list I can.
 

EJB

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Some people asked when Stelco/Hinton is active.
Right now I get it 2 bars line of site from Burlington 100 Feet up with a Diamond SMA antenna.

Tonight it is active, I am hearing 2 conversation on the same talkgroup tonight ( 9618) and conversations between on 2 talkgroups matched as follows:
25771-25824
10616-10718.

Its mostly work talk but harmless, its not like listening to EMS and FDP & PD, death injury sadness & destruction.

I can log all the talkgroups I have heard over the last few days if it helps. I wish I had trunker software.

Eric
 

EJB

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Ok: For about an hour I monitored Stelco/Hinton:

Talkgroups:
14843 SPOKE WITH 14674
12759 with 12646 (talking about slab)
9601 with 9683
9476 with 9679
9601 with 9683
2379 with 12710 and with other units on 2379
14617 with 14674
10522 with 10739
10631 on its own (see 2379)

The other day I logged these

25771 with 25824
2379 with other units on same talkgroup
10616 with 10718
1296 with 1329
1527 with 1504
781, 787 (both sounded like guards)
1880 with 12645
1292 with 1504
1294 with 12547
3346 with 3374
18897 with 18912
9652 with 12759
12726 with 12759
12738 with 12645
18203 with 12738

Again I wish I had trunker.

E
 

DaveH

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Ok: For about an hour I monitored Stelco/Hinton:

Talkgroups:
14843 SPOKE WITH 14674
12759 with 12646 (talking about slab)
9601 with 9683
9476 with 9679
9601 with 9683
2379 with 12710 and with other units on 2379
14617 with 14674
10522 with 10739
10631 on its own (see 2379)



Again I wish I had trunker.

E

Eric,

Interesting, but you could save a lot of time by programming your scanner as
a Type I system as described (Block 0 Sizecode S14). You can continue to
collect RIDs (which you call TGs, but they aren't really) but if you ever hope
to trunk-track this, you'll need a "TG" for every radio (for every real TG that
each radio shows up on).

If S14 doesn't work, that would be useful data.

Dave
 
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EJB

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Eric,

Interesting, but you could save a lot of time by programming your scanner as
a Type I system as described (Block 0 Sizecode S14). You can continue to
collect RIDs (which you call TGs, but they aren't really) but if you ever hope
to trunk-track this, you'll need a "TG" for every radio (for every real TG that
each radio shows up on).

If S14 doesn't work, that would be useful data.

Dave

Dave. I met up with a few members on here yesterday in Hamilton and one of these very kind members tapped my old Pro 45. I also got trunker88 software. I downloaded it but couldnt mess around with it cause I had 5 buses subways and trains to catch to go to my job here in T.O.

Stelco is def a LP system, I get it better LOS from about 10 KM's away than I did a KM to the south of it on Barton Rd in the Hammer.

We had a tapped scanner and a laptop to mess with and from what I can see is that you are right the talkgroups I speak of are just radio ID's, there were between 50-100 of them on a sunday afternoon.

Whenever I get home tonight (one of our cars broke down. Graeme, $600 friggin $$ SOBMF car!, but he says it will pass inspection next year), walk the dog, clean thelitter out see the kid and cry, I hope to hook it up and let her go. It has been mentioned to me that I can send you guys files of the data and I will do so.

Cant wait to get home (only 1 GO on the way home).

E
 

EJB

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Another control channel

I was thrown off a bit tonite when I went to monitor this system.
None listed here were being used as the c/c. I found 853.0750 is another control channel.
Found on 396 C/C only custom search & confirmed with trunker 88.

I will submit it to the database and run trunker88 on it while at work.

E
 
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