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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2006, 5:35 PM
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Default Durham Regional Police Scanning Help

I needed some help with listening into durham regional police in AJAX, ONTARIO. I have read on the internet they they are on encrypted system. What kind of equipment would I need to listen to there radio frequencies. I wanted to buy a digital scanner but I want to make sure it will work with durham police before I buy it.

Thanks for your help if you respond.
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Old 01-14-2006, 5:39 PM
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You won't be able to listen to DRP. They are on the Telus MiKE system.
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Old 01-14-2006, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wozney
I needed some help with listening into durham regional police in AJAX, ONTARIO. I have read on the internet they they are on encrypted system. What kind of equipment would I need to listen to there radio frequencies. I wanted to buy a digital scanner but I want to make sure it will work with durham police before I buy it.

Thanks for your help if you respond.
Unfortunetly there is no equipment to monitor Durham police. A digital scanner won't do it!
Hope this helps
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Old 01-14-2006, 7:21 PM
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You can build a setup for around $45,000.
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Old 01-14-2006, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman905
You can build a setup for around $45,000.
LOL, i love it
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Old 01-15-2006, 4:51 PM
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Unhappy Re Durham Regional Police Scanning Help

Why would Durham police use a private Mike system when Durham has a 800 Mhz trunking system in place for Emg services?
The cost to taxpayers must be out of this world.
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Old 01-15-2006, 5:02 PM
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Trust me....anyone who lives here feels the same way (anyone who is aware). Costs big dough to cut us listeners out of the mix!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Red
Why would Durham police use a private Mike system when Durham has a 800 Mhz trunking system in place for Emg services?
The cost to taxpayers must be out of this world.
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Old 01-15-2006, 5:13 PM
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I haven't lived in Durham Region since 1990, but I believe the MiKE system predates the trunk by at least a couple years. I know for a fact that Fire was not on a trunk system when I moved in 1990 (my father being a station captain at Pickering #3 for 10+ years previous).

As for why use MiKE at all - some salesman certainly plugged it as the next best thing and told them it was absolutely positively mandatory for communications in this day and age, and on top of that secret - the same thing every other salesman is doing plugging all these digital trunks etc. I myself wondered the other day why the traffic helicopter here in Calgary went with a business band trunk talkgroup downlink for its new service, rather than conventional frequencies, and then it hit me - the salesmen probably can't even offer you conventional any more. They're lucky they didn't get pushed onto some digital, MiKE, or 10-4 service.
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Old 01-15-2006, 5:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
I haven't lived in Durham Region since 1990, but I believe the MiKE system predates the trunk by at least a couple years.
Yeah, Durham went straight from conventional freqs to encrypted digital, i can't remember them ever being on the trunk system out here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
As for why use MiKE at all - some salesman certainly plugged it as the next best thing and told them it was absolutely positively mandatory for communications in this day and age, and on top of that secret - the same thing every other salesman is doing plugging all these digital trunks etc.
This one I'll have to disagree with, this kind of money wasn't spent because a salesman sold them on the idea. It was all about privacy from "outside listeners" and security, they knew what they were getting for the money.
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Old 01-15-2006, 6:28 PM
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Could it also have had something to do with the location of Clearnet's head offices??
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Old 01-15-2006, 8:52 PM
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I heard rumors out there that Durham may eventually be going back to digital do to those large costs, apparently its costing too much...
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Old 01-15-2006, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalCarnage
I heard rumors out there that Durham may eventually be going back to digital do to those large costs, apparently its costing too much...
Would the cost not have been in building the system, not running it? Getting rid of encription would be nice but I can't see it happening.
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Old 01-15-2006, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman905
Would the cost not have been in building the system, not running it? Getting rid of encription would be nice but I can't see it happening.
Ya, like i said, just a rumour i heard, besides alot was already in place as apparently telus (or clearnet at the time) used existing towers that were already established for regular cell service.....besides nothing wrong with having hope, lol, i think they should ban encrytion and Telus Mike systeems all together, lol
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Old 01-15-2006, 9:37 PM
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I would suspect being on a system owned by someone else (i.e. Clearnet/TELUS) involves a great amount of fees and such. Here in Calgary we even have to pay airtime for things like MDT and AVL transmissions, IIRC.
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Old 01-15-2006, 9:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
I would suspect being on a system owned by someone else (i.e. Clearnet/TELUS) involves a great amount of fees and such. Here in Calgary we even have to pay airtime for things like MDT and AVL transmissions, IIRC.
Good point, thats what i was thinking too...building a system that say Toronto uses, as far as my very non-extensive knowledge goes, once u build it its just maintanence costs to keep it running, where the Telus system u have to pay user fees
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Old 01-15-2006, 9:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
I would suspect being on a system owned by someone else (i.e. Clearnet/TELUS) involves a great amount of fees and such. Here in Calgary we even have to pay airtime for things like MDT and AVL transmissions, IIRC.
Thats a good point, never thought of it that way. Well I think they should stop wasting my taxes and get rid of Telus. It will free up gas money for our chopper
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Old 01-15-2006, 9:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalCarnage
i think they should ban encrytion and Telus Mike systeems all together, lol
Maybe this is a point for another topic (if so, Mike, feel free to split it or trash it or whatever) but I kind of agree with part of that.

I don't think MiKE systems (or the like) should be banned, but one should not be able to use it in a public safety setting. I'm not a radio system engineer, and I haven't seen the LMR-ish side of MiKE myself, but I don't think they have 'emergency' buttons or other things that public safety personnel need.

As for banning encryption, no, I don't think that's right either - but having to prove that your communications are of such a sensitive nature that they must be encrypted? Sure. In other words, if Anytown Police Dept wants to encrypt all their frequencies because they don't like scanners, the government says "Sorry, but no." If Anytown Police Dept says it wants its tac team and surveillance talkgroups encrypted, because of the dangerous life-threatening nature of those types of comms posing if they were "in the clear", then sure, encrypt those talkgroups.

In Calgary, there are a dozen or so out of the police's 100-160 talkgroups which are encrypted. Regular patrols are in the clear, traffic is in the clear, records is in the clear, etc. The hardcore crime stuff and investigations and etc. are all encrypted. That's fine to me. I miss being able to hear tac team doing their thing, but if I can hear it just by plugging it into a $500 scanner, then the guy whose door they're about to bust down can do the same thing.
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Old 01-15-2006, 9:51 PM
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I think he was joking Jay (hence the LOL), all us non-criminal types miss listening in Durham thats all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
Maybe this is a point for another topic (if so, Mike, feel free to split it or trash it or whatever) but I kind of agree with part of that.

I don't think MiKE systems (or the like) should be banned, but one should not be able to use it in a public safety setting. I'm not a radio system engineer, and I haven't seen the LMR-ish side of MiKE myself, but I don't think they have 'emergency' buttons or other things that public safety personnel need.

As for banning encryption, no, I don't think that's right either - but having to prove that your communications are of such a sensitive nature that they must be encrypted? Sure. In other words, if Anytown Police Dept wants to encrypt all their frequencies because they don't like scanners, the government says "Sorry, but no." If Anytown Police Dept says it wants its tac team and surveillance talkgroups encrypted, because of the dangerous life-threatening nature of those types of comms posing if they were "in the clear", then sure, encrypt those talkgroups.

In Calgary, there are a dozen or so out of the police's 100-160 talkgroups which are encrypted. Regular patrols are in the clear, traffic is in the clear, records is in the clear, etc. The hardcore crime stuff and investigations and etc. are all encrypted. That's fine to me. I miss being able to hear tac team doing their thing, but if I can hear it just by plugging it into a $500 scanner, then the guy whose door they're about to bust down can do the same thing.
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Old 01-15-2006, 9:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman905
I think he was joking Jay (hence the LOL), all us non-criminal types miss listening in Durham thats all.
Sorry, i will greater emphasis my joking next time. I understand the criminal concept behind it dont worry. But ya, all i listen to it for is self entertainment, not for criminal purposes. So it would be nice if they could give criminal tests to weed out the criminals and non-criminals and let us non-criminals listen in on everything, lol.....i will just keep crossing my fingers that DRPS goes bankrupt and has to scrap the telus stuff
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Old 01-17-2006, 10:25 PM
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A deff good topic , im sure has been debated to death .

However Im a former Police Services Board Member from a small town.

I no longer sit on the board nor live in the sane town.

In 1990 we had a fast talking Motorola salesman cold call us...he left fancy brochures and stuff.

Now this stuff is passed on from the Chief to the board for review.
We then in turn, debate this and send our findings to City Council.

Our Chief wanted to go 100% Digital , which was a Spectrum W9..an over lay on a vhf Freqency thus turning the clear comms into white noise.

He came to our meeting armed with what he termed “ Military Grade Communications )

Now most know, that is simply not true , we all had a chuckle , seeing as there was a few Hams on the board .

We stressed by ‘ cloakin ‘ our Police Radio Traffic we will cut off the ears n eyes out there , we went on to say ‘ There is more Monitors than Police Officers , this move is too costly to buy and moreover to maintain “ The Chief was LEVITT !!

He wanted total deafness , when asked “ Was there any incident we should know of that a scanner was used in the commission of any offence...his reply , a sheepish “ No “ .

Monies denied!

We did the next year allow for 4 hand helds to be used in DVP Mode for our Drug Unit. , sadly they were not used as much as our Military Grade Chief said they would be , they were sold 2 yrs later.


I saw a post on here , as per “ Encryption Money “ let me say from expense point of view , this stuff is NOT cheap to maintain !

If the tax base only knew just how much , as an example...our nice DVP Handhelds lost the key if the batt ran down , costing us more monies...did our Drug arrests go up because of this new radio ?

No it didn’t...not 1 % , if anything we had the same number of arrests when the drug unit was in clear mode.

Monies for these systems are not garnished overnight , that is monies budgeted at least 2 years ago in any city.

On a final note , we do touch base with other Police Boards , Welland Ontario is one.

One board member said he was told of Organ music playing over the Police Radios....how odd , that the SAME salesman who cold called us , cold called them in a matter of 2 days.

They sadly bought into the ‘ SCARE “ Tactics employed by ANY radio company , I wish I had a mp3 file of the scare tactics used on us back then...again if it wasnt for a few hams on the board , Im sure we would have spent the 19 Million on that radio system for 12 cops in our Dept.

In my final year I put together a costing working group to see if the OPP could provide the same service , only cheaper...3 years later , we are OPP and proud..and the tax payers pockets are a bit heavier , to the tune of 700,000 our 1st yr...and 1.2 Million years 2 and 3.

We also believe strongly in cloaking the signals from the bad guys , however in our case , no data was ever produced by our ‘ Angry Chief ‘ to back that up...again , Monies DENIED.

Now we are OPP , and that Chief is working a desk in XXXX Ontario.

Last edited by williams63; 01-18-2006 at 12:06 AM..
 

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