Fleetnet Tower Locations by Lat / Long

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phyberoptics

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Hi all,

I've seen the few maps circulating regarding the Fleetnet Tower Locations, but I'm putting my own map together in MS Mappoint.

Is there a list of tower locations with lat/long info? I'd prefer to use this for accuracy, and also so I can research the ASL height info for the base of the towers...

Does anyone know where I can find more comprehensive information?

Thanks, and Season's Greetings
 

yuy

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Tower location

Hello

I once saw on Industry Canada Spectrum Direct the locations of towers for other department of gov specified as : on OPP tower... (Never seen something called Fleetnet tower...supposing some of these are used for Fleetnet...)

You can specify the owner as Her majesty the Queen, there are lots of them and for location: Ontario. Maybe not real efficient and long work but you have precision of tower location.

http://sd.ic.gc.ca/engdoc/main.jsp


Good day
 

jellotor

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If you're going to go through the TAFL to try to figure out site locations, use the single frequency lookup and punch in the control channel or alternate control channel for the site.

As for why nothing shows up about Fleetnet on the TAFL, I believe the Fleetnet system frequencies are licensed to the government (specifically the GMCO) and not BMR. As I understand it, the terms of the agreement between the GMCO and BMR is that BMR owns the infrastructure (or most of it) while the government (through the GMCO) controls the actual frequencies.
 

yuy

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Tower locations

You're not going to find much this way, the frquencies look like they're protected or something. That's why I suggested looking for Ontario gov frequencies that could be located on OPP towers.
 

jellotor

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...and my point was that those aren't OPP towers, they're BMR towers with frequencies licensed to the GMCO associated with them. Either way, we're speaking the same language here: you won't find any listings for Fleetnet or BMR in the TAFL, but you *may* find some listings associated with the GMCO which may or may not be a part of the Fleetnet TRS.
 

phyberoptics

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exkalibur said:

Ex, yes, I am trying to re-invent the wheel, but a bigger, badder wheel heh heh...

I want to print that on huge poster sized paper, and that map would come out too low resolution for my liking. In trying to recreate this map, I would like to make sure that my locations are as precise as possible, so that the large and small format maps come out nice and clean. I'm also planning on making the map accessible through the Google Maps engine, which is another reason I was hoping for lat / long.

I managed to find the e-mail address of the guy who hosts the map, I'm hoping he's the creator, and I've asked him to send me the MapPoint file used to create it.

On a side note, I'm pretty pissed that the government would "hide" this information. There really isn't a reason for this...someone would have to be crazy to mess with provincial police radios and systems :|
 
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mikewazowski

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phyberoptics said:
On a side note, I'm pretty pissed that the government would "hide" this information. There really isn't a reason for this...someone would have to be crazy to mess with provincial police radios and systems :|

Uh yeah, that's exactly why they hide the information.

In case you hadn't noticed, there are a lot of crazies out there.
 

slicerwizard

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The best way to find the locations of Fleetnet sites is to search TAFL for Bell Mobility's microwave licenses. The following shows some of the licenses for Zone 3 sites:

Code:
TAFL-TS  Rev 4.0  (c) 1997-2006, W. A. Porrett

Searching database for 'BELL MOBILITY'

DO      TX         RX    User Name           Location                             ID     LinkID  Lat    Long  Type Mob SiteH AntH ERP

41  2037.5000  2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY       ABITIBI LAKE ON                      VFE822  VFE68  49.018  79.944    13   439   72
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       AUBREY FALLS ON                      VFE592  VFE60  46.888  83.268    13   511  105  29.5
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       BALDHEAD MOUNTAIN ON                 VFE941  VFE64  47.661  84.793    13   530   41
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       BALFOUR LAKE ON                      VFE510  VFE50  49.719  84.269    13   314   74
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       CARTIER ON                           VFE886  VFE74  46.712  81.566    13   462   96  28.1
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       CHAPLEAU ON                          VFE975  VFE60  47.810  83.577    13   509  130  27.9
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       CHARLTON ON                          VFE655  VFE65  47.782  80.103    15   302  108
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       COBALT ON                            VFE656  VFE65  47.375  79.674    15   378   66  31.9
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       COCHRANE ON                          VFE516  VFE51  49.055  81.218    13   276   76  31.3
41  2105.0000  2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY       DEPARTURE LAKE ON                    VFE514  VFE51  49.282  81.793    13   245   89
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       DUBREUILVILLE ON                     VFE776  VFE60  48.347  84.543    13   366  158  21.9
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       ELDEE ON                             VFE835  VFE68  46.618  79.173    11   317   99  27.6
41  2037.5000  2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY       ELLIOT LAKE ON                       VFE720  VFE75  46.400  82.620    15   424   77  29.2
41  2080.0000  2255.0000 BELL MOBILITY       FLAME LAKE ON                        VFE605  VFE81  47.247  83.213    11   582   84
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       FOLEYET ON                           VFE838  VFE86  48.207  82.507    11   371   78
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       FRASER RIVER ON                      VFE509  VFE51  49.758  84.956    13   262   81  31.0
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       GHOST RIVER ON                       VFE840  VFE69  48.526  79.758    11   338   84  28.9
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       GOWGANDA ON                          VFE842  VFE65  47.648  80.756    11   406   84  28.4
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       HALLEBOURG ON                        VFE511  VFE51  49.658  83.562    13   256   90  30.5
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       HORNEPAYNE ON                        VFE613  VFE64  49.221  84.790    13   374   90
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       JACKPINE ON                          VFE614  VFE64  47.945  84.196    13   476  105
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       KAPUSKASING ON                       VFE513  VFE51  49.401  82.377    13   226   81  30.9
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       KILLARNEY ON                         VFE907  VFE93  46.004  81.431    13   194   47
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       KING KIRKLAND ON                     VFE676  VFE69  48.146  79.901    15   406   32  32.0
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MARKSTAY ON                          VFE735  VFE88  46.559  80.546    13   275   87  28.4
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MARTEN RIVER ON                      VFE678  VFE68  46.671  79.923    15   299   84  30.8
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MATTAWA ON                           VEM421  VFE65  46.326  78.729    13   291   63
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MCKERROW ON                          VFE738  VFE75  46.321  81.781    15   299   72  29.6
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MISSANABIE ON                        VFE798  VFE61  48.321  84.054    11   369   84  31.1
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MONTREAL RIVER ON                    VFE799  VFE80  47.248  84.596    11   525   69
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       NELLIE LAKE ON                       VFE686  VFE69  48.773  80.783    15   335   32  34.0
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       OPASATIKA ON                         VFE512  VFE51  49.538  82.918    13   238   81
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       OPISHING ON                          VFE862  VFE69  48.238  81.873    13   359   84  31.1
41  2105.0000  2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY       PORT LORING ON                       VFE979  VFE98  45.940  79.972    11   261   59  30.5
41  2105.0000  2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY       POWASSAN ON                          VFE980  VFE97  46.058  79.438    11   383   75
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       RAMORE ON                            VFE691  VFE67  48.428  80.241    15   398   32
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       SEARCHMONT ON                        VFE809  VFE64  46.711  84.178    13   523   61  32.1
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       SILVER WATER ON                      VFE926  VFE72  45.904  82.917    13   271   32
41  2080.0000  2255.0000 BELL MOBILITY       SULTAN ON                            VFE811  VFE60  47.589  82.788    11   460   90  30.8
41  2105.0000  2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY       TEMAGAMI ON                          VFE696  VFE65  46.997  79.826    15   379   79
41  2037.5000  2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY       TIMMINS ON                           VFE697  VFE51  48.467  81.305    15   359   84
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       VERNER ON                            VFE756  VFE73  46.428  80.130    15   236   82
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       WATERSHED ON                         VFE875  VFE84  47.467  81.844    11   398   59  30.4
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       WAWA ON                              VFE644  VFE94  48.021  84.751    13   439   37  29.4
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       WEST BAY ON                          VFE935  VFE92  45.824  82.120    13   314   75  31.5
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       WHARNCLIFFE ON                       VFE646  VFE59  46.446  83.473    13   353  145
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       WHITE RIVER ON                       VFE647  VFE61  48.628  85.189    13   595   62  33.8

Out of 89,516 (Ontario) entries, 3792 match search parameters.

The number of licensed pairs at each site shows the topography of the microwave network, e.g. since Jackpine has three microwave pairs (not shown above), you can surmise that it is linked to Wawa, Missanabie and Chapleau. Missanabie has only the one pair shown above, so you know it's at the end of a chain (e.g. only links to Jackpine)

Note that the listed antenna heights are for the microwave dishes, not the VHF antennas, but they may give you clues about the tower sizes. If all you want is ground elevation (SiteH), it's in there.

When dealing with denser areas (like southern Ontario), there can be several Bell licenses (with differing coordinates) for a community, so other methods need to be employed - if Windsor has too many possible sites, look for a likely candidate in Essex (like the one whose location is "ESSEX OPP ONTARIO") and look for a matching frequency pair in Windsor. Always look at microwave licenses - Bell VHF and 800 MHz licenses don't point to Fleetnet sites.

Another example would be Peterborough - there are two Bell Mobility sites with microwave licenses, but only one of them has a pair that matches the Cobourg site's single pair.

The MapPoint file and the full list of Bell Mobility licenses in Ontario have been sent to you (Merry Christmas) :)
 

mikewazowski

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I believe some of the sites will be fed with fiber instead of m/w. They might be a little trickier to find.

Interesting that these are all 2Ghz licences. IIRC, when the OPP tendered the microwave project for the old NOR system, it was for a 2Ghz system.
 

slicerwizard

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phyberoptics said:
I'm pretty pissed that the government would "hide" this information.

Hm. Perhaps you should reconsider your project. According to this:

http://www.ambulance-transition.com/pdf_documents/telecommunications_factsheet.pdf

"The GMCO has done significant work with Industry Canada to ensure that the frequency list for this public safety network is not widely distributed to the general public. The GMCO does not support the use of programmable scanners to monitor network communication, nor will it provide frequency information to assist in the programming of scanning equipment"

So, your big map will be useless, according to Big Brother... :)
 

DaveH

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slicerwizard said:
"nor will it provide frequency information to assist in the programming of scanning equipment"

Great Big Guffawing Laugh. Plus, they don't specifically say they wouldn't
provide TALKGROUP info.

Dave
 

phyberoptics

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slicerwizard said:
The best way to find the locations of Fleetnet sites is to search TAFL for Bell Mobility's microwave licenses. The following shows some of the licenses for Zone 3 sites:

Code:
TAFL-TS  Rev 4.0  (c) 1997-2006, W. A. Porrett

Searching database for 'BELL MOBILITY'

DO      TX         RX    User Name           Location                             ID     LinkID  Lat    Long  Type Mob SiteH AntH ERP

41  2037.5000  2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY       ABITIBI LAKE ON                      VFE822  VFE68  49.018  79.944    13   439   72
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       AUBREY FALLS ON                      VFE592  VFE60  46.888  83.268    13   511  105  29.5
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       BALDHEAD MOUNTAIN ON                 VFE941  VFE64  47.661  84.793    13   530   41
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       BALFOUR LAKE ON                      VFE510  VFE50  49.719  84.269    13   314   74
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       CARTIER ON                           VFE886  VFE74  46.712  81.566    13   462   96  28.1
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       CHAPLEAU ON                          VFE975  VFE60  47.810  83.577    13   509  130  27.9
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       CHARLTON ON                          VFE655  VFE65  47.782  80.103    15   302  108
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       COBALT ON                            VFE656  VFE65  47.375  79.674    15   378   66  31.9
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       COCHRANE ON                          VFE516  VFE51  49.055  81.218    13   276   76  31.3
41  2105.0000  2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY       DEPARTURE LAKE ON                    VFE514  VFE51  49.282  81.793    13   245   89
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       DUBREUILVILLE ON                     VFE776  VFE60  48.347  84.543    13   366  158  21.9
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       ELDEE ON                             VFE835  VFE68  46.618  79.173    11   317   99  27.6
41  2037.5000  2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY       ELLIOT LAKE ON                       VFE720  VFE75  46.400  82.620    15   424   77  29.2
41  2080.0000  2255.0000 BELL MOBILITY       FLAME LAKE ON                        VFE605  VFE81  47.247  83.213    11   582   84
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       FOLEYET ON                           VFE838  VFE86  48.207  82.507    11   371   78
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       FRASER RIVER ON                      VFE509  VFE51  49.758  84.956    13   262   81  31.0
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       GHOST RIVER ON                       VFE840  VFE69  48.526  79.758    11   338   84  28.9
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       GOWGANDA ON                          VFE842  VFE65  47.648  80.756    11   406   84  28.4
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       HALLEBOURG ON                        VFE511  VFE51  49.658  83.562    13   256   90  30.5
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       HORNEPAYNE ON                        VFE613  VFE64  49.221  84.790    13   374   90
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       JACKPINE ON                          VFE614  VFE64  47.945  84.196    13   476  105
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       KAPUSKASING ON                       VFE513  VFE51  49.401  82.377    13   226   81  30.9
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       KILLARNEY ON                         VFE907  VFE93  46.004  81.431    13   194   47
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       KING KIRKLAND ON                     VFE676  VFE69  48.146  79.901    15   406   32  32.0
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MARKSTAY ON                          VFE735  VFE88  46.559  80.546    13   275   87  28.4
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MARTEN RIVER ON                      VFE678  VFE68  46.671  79.923    15   299   84  30.8
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MATTAWA ON                           VEM421  VFE65  46.326  78.729    13   291   63
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MCKERROW ON                          VFE738  VFE75  46.321  81.781    15   299   72  29.6
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MISSANABIE ON                        VFE798  VFE61  48.321  84.054    11   369   84  31.1
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       MONTREAL RIVER ON                    VFE799  VFE80  47.248  84.596    11   525   69
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       NELLIE LAKE ON                       VFE686  VFE69  48.773  80.783    15   335   32  34.0
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       OPASATIKA ON                         VFE512  VFE51  49.538  82.918    13   238   81
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       OPISHING ON                          VFE862  VFE69  48.238  81.873    13   359   84  31.1
41  2105.0000  2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY       PORT LORING ON                       VFE979  VFE98  45.940  79.972    11   261   59  30.5
41  2105.0000  2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY       POWASSAN ON                          VFE980  VFE97  46.058  79.438    11   383   75
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       RAMORE ON                            VFE691  VFE67  48.428  80.241    15   398   32
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       SEARCHMONT ON                        VFE809  VFE64  46.711  84.178    13   523   61  32.1
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       SILVER WATER ON                      VFE926  VFE72  45.904  82.917    13   271   32
41  2080.0000  2255.0000 BELL MOBILITY       SULTAN ON                            VFE811  VFE60  47.589  82.788    11   460   90  30.8
41  2105.0000  2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY       TEMAGAMI ON                          VFE696  VFE65  46.997  79.826    15   379   79
41  2037.5000  2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY       TIMMINS ON                           VFE697  VFE51  48.467  81.305    15   359   84
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       VERNER ON                            VFE756  VFE73  46.428  80.130    15   236   82
41  2030.0000  2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY       WATERSHED ON                         VFE875  VFE84  47.467  81.844    11   398   59  30.4
41  2040.0000  2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY       WAWA ON                              VFE644  VFE94  48.021  84.751    13   439   37  29.4
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       WEST BAY ON                          VFE935  VFE92  45.824  82.120    13   314   75  31.5
41  2035.0000  2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY       WHARNCLIFFE ON                       VFE646  VFE59  46.446  83.473    13   353  145
41  2045.0000  2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY       WHITE RIVER ON                       VFE647  VFE61  48.628  85.189    13   595   62  33.8

Out of 89,516 (Ontario) entries, 3792 match search parameters.

The number of licensed pairs at each site shows the topography of the microwave network, e.g. since Jackpine has three microwave pairs (not shown above), you can surmise that it is linked to Wawa, Missanabie and Chapleau. Missanabie has only the one pair shown above, so you know it's at the end of a chain (e.g. only links to Jackpine)

Note that the listed antenna heights are for the microwave dishes, not the VHF antennas, but they may give you clues about the tower sizes. If all you want is ground elevation (SiteH), it's in there.

When dealing with denser areas (like southern Ontario), there can be several Bell licenses (with differing coordinates) for a community, so other methods need to be employed - if Windsor has too many possible sites, look for a likely candidate in Essex (like the one whose location is "ESSEX OPP ONTARIO") and look for a matching frequency pair in Windsor. Always look at microwave licenses - Bell VHF and 800 MHz licenses don't point to Fleetnet sites.

Another example would be Peterborough - there are two Bell Mobility sites with microwave licenses, but only one of them has a pair that matches the Cobourg site's single pair.

The MapPoint file and the full list of Bell Mobility licenses in Ontario have been sent to you (Merry Christmas) :)

Thanks very much, I definitely appreciate you sending me this info. I did print out the mappoint on 12x18 posterboard, and it looks great :)
 

phyberoptics

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slicerwizard said:
Hm. Perhaps you should reconsider your project. According to this:

http://www.ambulance-transition.com/pdf_documents/telecommunications_factsheet.pdf

"The GMCO has done significant work with Industry Canada to ensure that the frequency list for this public safety network is not widely distributed to the general public. The GMCO does not support the use of programmable scanners to monitor network communication, nor will it provide frequency information to assist in the programming of scanning equipment"

So, your big map will be useless, according to Big Brother... :)

Meh, GMCO and IC can bite me lol
 

exkalibur

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slicerwizard said:
"The GMCO has done significant work with Industry Canada to ensure that the frequency list for this public safety network is not widely distributed to the general public. The GMCO does not support the use of programmable scanners to monitor network communication, nor will it provide frequency information to assist in the programming of scanning equipment"

Fortunatly, they rely on radio shops such as Digital Mobile who don't treat such information as being confidential. At least, a check of their dumpster will certainly reveal that...I doubt their employees would be happy to know that the company is throwing away documents with all of their personal information on it.
 

exkalibur

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Hey Andy; You missed the paragraph right above what you posted!

"Industry Canada has indicated to the Government Mobile Communications Office that only public-safety agencies would be licensed to monitor digital transmissions from the provincial trunked public safety network on programmable trunking capable radio frequency scanners."

Well gee, didn't the SAME document just state earlier that scanners are not capable?
 

slicerwizard

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Hey, I had to leave some scraps for you.

They also had a PowerPoint presentation that listed one of the benefits of trunking: "scanner-proof"

Learn something new every day...
 
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