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| Eastern Canada Radio Discussion Forum Forum for discussion of Radio Information specific to the Provinces of Ontario, Quebec, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island |
12-27-2006, 04:20 PM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Brampton
Posts: 155
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Fleetnet Tower Locations by Lat / Long
Hi all,
I've seen the few maps circulating regarding the Fleetnet Tower Locations, but I'm putting my own map together in MS Mappoint.
Is there a list of tower locations with lat/long info? I'd prefer to use this for accuracy, and also so I can research the ASL height info for the base of the towers...
Does anyone know where I can find more comprehensive information?
Thanks, and Season's Greetings
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12-28-2006, 01:07 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10
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Tower location
Hello
I once saw on Industry Canada Spectrum Direct the locations of towers for other department of gov specified as : on OPP tower... (Never seen something called Fleetnet tower...supposing some of these are used for Fleetnet...)
You can specify the owner as Her majesty the Queen, there are lots of them and for location: Ontario. Maybe not real efficient and long work but you have precision of tower location.
http://sd.ic.gc.ca/engdoc/main.jsp
Good day |
12-28-2006, 01:13 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,027
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If you're going to go through the TAFL to try to figure out site locations, use the single frequency lookup and punch in the control channel or alternate control channel for the site.
As for why nothing shows up about Fleetnet on the TAFL, I believe the Fleetnet system frequencies are licensed to the government (specifically the GMCO) and not BMR. As I understand it, the terms of the agreement between the GMCO and BMR is that BMR owns the infrastructure (or most of it) while the government (through the GMCO) controls the actual frequencies.
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12-28-2006, 01:24 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10
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Tower locations
You're not going to find much this way, the frquencies look like they're protected or something. That's why I suggested looking for Ontario gov frequencies that could be located on OPP towers.
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12-28-2006, 06:54 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,027
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...and my point was that those aren't OPP towers, they're BMR towers with frequencies licensed to the GMCO associated with them. Either way, we're speaking the same language here: you won't find any listings for Fleetnet or BMR in the TAFL, but you *may* find some listings associated with the GMCO which may or may not be a part of the Fleetnet TRS.
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12-28-2006, 07:02 AM
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12-28-2006, 10:05 AM
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Member
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Brampton
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by exkalibur
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Ex, yes, I am trying to re-invent the wheel, but a bigger, badder wheel heh heh...
I want to print that on huge poster sized paper, and that map would come out too low resolution for my liking. In trying to recreate this map, I would like to make sure that my locations are as precise as possible, so that the large and small format maps come out nice and clean. I'm also planning on making the map accessible through the Google Maps engine, which is another reason I was hoping for lat / long.
I managed to find the e-mail address of the guy who hosts the map, I'm hoping he's the creator, and I've asked him to send me the MapPoint file used to create it.
On a side note, I'm pretty pissed that the government would "hide" this information. There really isn't a reason for this...someone would have to be crazy to mess with provincial police radios and systems :|
Last edited by phyberoptics; 12-28-2006 at 10:08 AM..
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12-28-2006, 03:38 PM
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Database Admin
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Central Ontario
Posts: 2,716
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by phyberoptics
On a side note, I'm pretty pissed that the government would "hide" this information. There really isn't a reason for this...someone would have to be crazy to mess with provincial police radios and systems :|
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Uh yeah, that's exactly why they hide the information.
In case you hadn't noticed, there are a lot of crazies out there.
__________________
Mike.
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12-28-2006, 04:46 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 1,794
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The best way to find the locations of Fleetnet sites is to search TAFL for Bell Mobility's microwave licenses. The following shows some of the licenses for Zone 3 sites:
Code:
TAFL-TS Rev 4.0 (c) 1997-2006, W. A. Porrett
Searching database for 'BELL MOBILITY'
DO TX RX User Name Location ID LinkID Lat Long Type Mob SiteH AntH ERP
41 2037.5000 2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY ABITIBI LAKE ON VFE822 VFE68 49.018 79.944 13 439 72
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY AUBREY FALLS ON VFE592 VFE60 46.888 83.268 13 511 105 29.5
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY BALDHEAD MOUNTAIN ON VFE941 VFE64 47.661 84.793 13 530 41
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY BALFOUR LAKE ON VFE510 VFE50 49.719 84.269 13 314 74
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY CARTIER ON VFE886 VFE74 46.712 81.566 13 462 96 28.1
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY CHAPLEAU ON VFE975 VFE60 47.810 83.577 13 509 130 27.9
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY CHARLTON ON VFE655 VFE65 47.782 80.103 15 302 108
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY COBALT ON VFE656 VFE65 47.375 79.674 15 378 66 31.9
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY COCHRANE ON VFE516 VFE51 49.055 81.218 13 276 76 31.3
41 2105.0000 2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY DEPARTURE LAKE ON VFE514 VFE51 49.282 81.793 13 245 89
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY DUBREUILVILLE ON VFE776 VFE60 48.347 84.543 13 366 158 21.9
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY ELDEE ON VFE835 VFE68 46.618 79.173 11 317 99 27.6
41 2037.5000 2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY ELLIOT LAKE ON VFE720 VFE75 46.400 82.620 15 424 77 29.2
41 2080.0000 2255.0000 BELL MOBILITY FLAME LAKE ON VFE605 VFE81 47.247 83.213 11 582 84
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY FOLEYET ON VFE838 VFE86 48.207 82.507 11 371 78
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY FRASER RIVER ON VFE509 VFE51 49.758 84.956 13 262 81 31.0
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY GHOST RIVER ON VFE840 VFE69 48.526 79.758 11 338 84 28.9
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY GOWGANDA ON VFE842 VFE65 47.648 80.756 11 406 84 28.4
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY HALLEBOURG ON VFE511 VFE51 49.658 83.562 13 256 90 30.5
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY HORNEPAYNE ON VFE613 VFE64 49.221 84.790 13 374 90
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY JACKPINE ON VFE614 VFE64 47.945 84.196 13 476 105
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY KAPUSKASING ON VFE513 VFE51 49.401 82.377 13 226 81 30.9
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY KILLARNEY ON VFE907 VFE93 46.004 81.431 13 194 47
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY KING KIRKLAND ON VFE676 VFE69 48.146 79.901 15 406 32 32.0
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY MARKSTAY ON VFE735 VFE88 46.559 80.546 13 275 87 28.4
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY MARTEN RIVER ON VFE678 VFE68 46.671 79.923 15 299 84 30.8
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY MATTAWA ON VEM421 VFE65 46.326 78.729 13 291 63
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY MCKERROW ON VFE738 VFE75 46.321 81.781 15 299 72 29.6
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY MISSANABIE ON VFE798 VFE61 48.321 84.054 11 369 84 31.1
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY MONTREAL RIVER ON VFE799 VFE80 47.248 84.596 11 525 69
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY NELLIE LAKE ON VFE686 VFE69 48.773 80.783 15 335 32 34.0
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY OPASATIKA ON VFE512 VFE51 49.538 82.918 13 238 81
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY OPISHING ON VFE862 VFE69 48.238 81.873 13 359 84 31.1
41 2105.0000 2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY PORT LORING ON VFE979 VFE98 45.940 79.972 11 261 59 30.5
41 2105.0000 2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY POWASSAN ON VFE980 VFE97 46.058 79.438 11 383 75
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY RAMORE ON VFE691 VFE67 48.428 80.241 15 398 32
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY SEARCHMONT ON VFE809 VFE64 46.711 84.178 13 523 61 32.1
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY SILVER WATER ON VFE926 VFE72 45.904 82.917 13 271 32
41 2080.0000 2255.0000 BELL MOBILITY SULTAN ON VFE811 VFE60 47.589 82.788 11 460 90 30.8
41 2105.0000 2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY TEMAGAMI ON VFE696 VFE65 46.997 79.826 15 379 79
41 2037.5000 2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY TIMMINS ON VFE697 VFE51 48.467 81.305 15 359 84
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY VERNER ON VFE756 VFE73 46.428 80.130 15 236 82
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY WATERSHED ON VFE875 VFE84 47.467 81.844 11 398 59 30.4
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY WAWA ON VFE644 VFE94 48.021 84.751 13 439 37 29.4
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY WEST BAY ON VFE935 VFE92 45.824 82.120 13 314 75 31.5
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY WHARNCLIFFE ON VFE646 VFE59 46.446 83.473 13 353 145
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY WHITE RIVER ON VFE647 VFE61 48.628 85.189 13 595 62 33.8
Out of 89,516 (Ontario) entries, 3792 match search parameters.
The number of licensed pairs at each site shows the topography of the microwave network, e.g. since Jackpine has three microwave pairs (not shown above), you can surmise that it is linked to Wawa, Missanabie and Chapleau. Missanabie has only the one pair shown above, so you know it's at the end of a chain (e.g. only links to Jackpine)
Note that the listed antenna heights are for the microwave dishes, not the VHF antennas, but they may give you clues about the tower sizes. If all you want is ground elevation (SiteH), it's in there.
When dealing with denser areas (like southern Ontario), there can be several Bell licenses (with differing coordinates) for a community, so other methods need to be employed - if Windsor has too many possible sites, look for a likely candidate in Essex (like the one whose location is "ESSEX OPP ONTARIO") and look for a matching frequency pair in Windsor. Always look at microwave licenses - Bell VHF and 800 MHz licenses don't point to Fleetnet sites.
Another example would be Peterborough - there are two Bell Mobility sites with microwave licenses, but only one of them has a pair that matches the Cobourg site's single pair.
The MapPoint file and the full list of Bell Mobility licenses in Ontario have been sent to you (Merry Christmas) 
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12-28-2006, 05:18 PM
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Member
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Database Admin
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Central Ontario
Posts: 2,716
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I believe some of the sites will be fed with fiber instead of m/w. They might be a little trickier to find.
Interesting that these are all 2Ghz licences. IIRC, when the OPP tendered the microwave project for the old NOR system, it was for a 2Ghz system.
__________________
Mike.
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12-28-2006, 07:59 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Durham Region, Ontario Canada
Posts: 433
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by phyberoptics
Ex, yes, I am trying to re-invent the wheel, but a bigger, badder wheel heh heh...
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Bigger & badder is always better....... 
__________________
Cheers, Simon.
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12-28-2006, 08:26 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 1,794
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by phyberoptics
I'm pretty pissed that the government would "hide" this information.
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Hm. Perhaps you should reconsider your project. According to this:
http://www.ambulance-transition.com/..._factsheet.pdf
"The GMCO has done significant work with Industry Canada to ensure that the frequency list for this public safety network is not widely distributed to the general public. The GMCO does not support the use of programmable scanners to monitor network communication, nor will it provide frequency information to assist in the programming of scanning equipment"
So, your big map will be useless, according to Big Brother... |
12-28-2006, 09:14 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ottawa, Ont.
Posts: 1,757
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by slicerwizard
"nor will it provide frequency information to assist in the programming of scanning equipment"
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Great Big Guffawing Laugh. Plus, they don't specifically say they wouldn't
provide TALKGROUP info.
Dave |
12-28-2006, 10:12 PM
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Member
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Brampton
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by slicerwizard
The best way to find the locations of Fleetnet sites is to search TAFL for Bell Mobility's microwave licenses. The following shows some of the licenses for Zone 3 sites:
Code:
TAFL-TS Rev 4.0 (c) 1997-2006, W. A. Porrett
Searching database for 'BELL MOBILITY'
DO TX RX User Name Location ID LinkID Lat Long Type Mob SiteH AntH ERP
41 2037.5000 2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY ABITIBI LAKE ON VFE822 VFE68 49.018 79.944 13 439 72
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY AUBREY FALLS ON VFE592 VFE60 46.888 83.268 13 511 105 29.5
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY BALDHEAD MOUNTAIN ON VFE941 VFE64 47.661 84.793 13 530 41
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY BALFOUR LAKE ON VFE510 VFE50 49.719 84.269 13 314 74
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY CARTIER ON VFE886 VFE74 46.712 81.566 13 462 96 28.1
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY CHAPLEAU ON VFE975 VFE60 47.810 83.577 13 509 130 27.9
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY CHARLTON ON VFE655 VFE65 47.782 80.103 15 302 108
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY COBALT ON VFE656 VFE65 47.375 79.674 15 378 66 31.9
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY COCHRANE ON VFE516 VFE51 49.055 81.218 13 276 76 31.3
41 2105.0000 2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY DEPARTURE LAKE ON VFE514 VFE51 49.282 81.793 13 245 89
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY DUBREUILVILLE ON VFE776 VFE60 48.347 84.543 13 366 158 21.9
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY ELDEE ON VFE835 VFE68 46.618 79.173 11 317 99 27.6
41 2037.5000 2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY ELLIOT LAKE ON VFE720 VFE75 46.400 82.620 15 424 77 29.2
41 2080.0000 2255.0000 BELL MOBILITY FLAME LAKE ON VFE605 VFE81 47.247 83.213 11 582 84
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY FOLEYET ON VFE838 VFE86 48.207 82.507 11 371 78
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY FRASER RIVER ON VFE509 VFE51 49.758 84.956 13 262 81 31.0
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY GHOST RIVER ON VFE840 VFE69 48.526 79.758 11 338 84 28.9
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY GOWGANDA ON VFE842 VFE65 47.648 80.756 11 406 84 28.4
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY HALLEBOURG ON VFE511 VFE51 49.658 83.562 13 256 90 30.5
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY HORNEPAYNE ON VFE613 VFE64 49.221 84.790 13 374 90
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY JACKPINE ON VFE614 VFE64 47.945 84.196 13 476 105
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY KAPUSKASING ON VFE513 VFE51 49.401 82.377 13 226 81 30.9
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY KILLARNEY ON VFE907 VFE93 46.004 81.431 13 194 47
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY KING KIRKLAND ON VFE676 VFE69 48.146 79.901 15 406 32 32.0
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY MARKSTAY ON VFE735 VFE88 46.559 80.546 13 275 87 28.4
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY MARTEN RIVER ON VFE678 VFE68 46.671 79.923 15 299 84 30.8
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY MATTAWA ON VEM421 VFE65 46.326 78.729 13 291 63
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY MCKERROW ON VFE738 VFE75 46.321 81.781 15 299 72 29.6
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY MISSANABIE ON VFE798 VFE61 48.321 84.054 11 369 84 31.1
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY MONTREAL RIVER ON VFE799 VFE80 47.248 84.596 11 525 69
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY NELLIE LAKE ON VFE686 VFE69 48.773 80.783 15 335 32 34.0
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY OPASATIKA ON VFE512 VFE51 49.538 82.918 13 238 81
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY OPISHING ON VFE862 VFE69 48.238 81.873 13 359 84 31.1
41 2105.0000 2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY PORT LORING ON VFE979 VFE98 45.940 79.972 11 261 59 30.5
41 2105.0000 2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY POWASSAN ON VFE980 VFE97 46.058 79.438 11 383 75
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY RAMORE ON VFE691 VFE67 48.428 80.241 15 398 32
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY SEARCHMONT ON VFE809 VFE64 46.711 84.178 13 523 61 32.1
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY SILVER WATER ON VFE926 VFE72 45.904 82.917 13 271 32
41 2080.0000 2255.0000 BELL MOBILITY SULTAN ON VFE811 VFE60 47.589 82.788 11 460 90 30.8
41 2105.0000 2280.0000 BELL MOBILITY TEMAGAMI ON VFE696 VFE65 46.997 79.826 15 379 79
41 2037.5000 2212.5000 BELL MOBILITY TIMMINS ON VFE697 VFE51 48.467 81.305 15 359 84
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY VERNER ON VFE756 VFE73 46.428 80.130 15 236 82
41 2030.0000 2205.0000 BELL MOBILITY WATERSHED ON VFE875 VFE84 47.467 81.844 11 398 59 30.4
41 2040.0000 2215.0000 BELL MOBILITY WAWA ON VFE644 VFE94 48.021 84.751 13 439 37 29.4
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY WEST BAY ON VFE935 VFE92 45.824 82.120 13 314 75 31.5
41 2035.0000 2210.0000 BELL MOBILITY WHARNCLIFFE ON VFE646 VFE59 46.446 83.473 13 353 145
41 2045.0000 2220.0000 BELL MOBILITY WHITE RIVER ON VFE647 VFE61 48.628 85.189 13 595 62 33.8
Out of 89,516 (Ontario) entries, 3792 match search parameters.
The number of licensed pairs at each site shows the topography of the microwave network, e.g. since Jackpine has three microwave pairs (not shown above), you can surmise that it is linked to Wawa, Missanabie and Chapleau. Missanabie has only the one pair shown above, so you know it's at the end of a chain (e.g. only links to Jackpine)
Note that the listed antenna heights are for the microwave dishes, not the VHF antennas, but they may give you clues about the tower sizes. If all you want is ground elevation (SiteH), it's in there.
When dealing with denser areas (like southern Ontario), there can be several Bell licenses (with differing coordinates) for a community, so other methods need to be employed - if Windsor has too many possible sites, look for a likely candidate in Essex (like the one whose location is "ESSEX OPP ONTARIO") and look for a matching frequency pair in Windsor. Always look at microwave licenses - Bell VHF and 800 MHz licenses don't point to Fleetnet sites.
Another example would be Peterborough - there are two Bell Mobility sites with microwave licenses, but only one of them has a pair that matches the Cobourg site's single pair.
The MapPoint file and the full list of Bell Mobility licenses in Ontario have been sent to you (Merry Christmas) |
Thanks very much, I definitely appreciate you sending me this info. I did print out the mappoint on 12x18 posterboard, and it looks great
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12-28-2006, 10:14 PM
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Member
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Brampton
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by slicerwizard
Hm. Perhaps you should reconsider your project. According to this:
http://www.ambulance-transition.com/..._factsheet.pdf
"The GMCO has done significant work with Industry Canada to ensure that the frequency list for this public safety network is not widely distributed to the general public. The GMCO does not support the use of programmable scanners to monitor network communication, nor will it provide frequency information to assist in the programming of scanning equipment"
So, your big map will be useless, according to Big Brother... |
Meh, GMCO and IC can bite me lol |
12-29-2006, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by phyberoptics
Meh, GMCO and IC can bite me lol
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Before, during or after your program up those Maxtracs 
I kid I kid... |
12-29-2006, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by slicerwizard
"The GMCO has done significant work with Industry Canada to ensure that the frequency list for this public safety network is not widely distributed to the general public. The GMCO does not support the use of programmable scanners to monitor network communication, nor will it provide frequency information to assist in the programming of scanning equipment"
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Fortunatly, they rely on radio shops such as Digital Mobile who don't treat such information as being confidential. At least, a check of their dumpster will certainly reveal that...I doubt their employees would be happy to know that the company is throwing away documents with all of their personal information on it. |
12-29-2006, 01:05 AM
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Hey Andy; You missed the paragraph right above what you posted!
"Industry Canada has indicated to the Government Mobile Communications Office that only public-safety agencies would be licensed to monitor digital transmissions from the provincial trunked public safety network on programmable trunking capable radio frequency scanners."
Well gee, didn't the SAME document just state earlier that scanners are not capable?
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12-29-2006, 01:52 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 1,794
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Hey, I had to leave some scraps for you.
They also had a PowerPoint presentation that listed one of the benefits of trunking: "scanner-proof"
Learn something new every day...
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12-29-2006, 02:56 AM
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Uh oh.. somebody better tell Uniden their scanners don't trunk!!
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