San Diego Border/Customs Freq?

[joshieca]

I found a good list of SD County Border Patrol/Customs freq's....but they are seem to be in the 161 range....wouldn't Homeland Secuirty/Customs, etc. being using a trunk system by now?

- Josh

 

[texasemt13]

I found a good list of SD County Border Patrol/Customs freq's....but they are seem to be in the 161 range....wouldn't Homeland Secuirty/Customs, etc. being using a trunk system by now?

- Josh

I'm not in your area, but Customs still uses analog conventional frequencies here in Texas.

 

[SOFA_KING]

Trunking for feds? That would be a disaster! And they know it.

Look up the IWN Project. It is a joke. The problem with these overcomplicated trunking systems is that you are locked into that "control channel" world and can't get out without loosing contact with your agency. Feds need to use simplex, and radio equipment doesn't like to mix trunking with conventional either. On trunking, if you loose the control channel, you could be cut off, and maybe in trouble. Trunking is expensive, not interop friendly, and dangerous in low signal conditions. Trunking SUCKS!

Stick to conventional and design efficient systems that do not waste frequency resources.

Just my $0.02.

Phil

 

[W6KRU]

In San Diego the BP freqs are all over the place in the 160-174 band. They are P25 encrypted and the NACs are all over the place as well.

 

[SOFA_KING]

In San Diego the BP freqs are all over the place in the 160-174 band. They are P25 encrypted and the NACs are all over the place as well.

Same here. BP is the worst at wasting frequencies and bad system design. They have some real low quality people in that org.

In fact, I heard something today that made me sick and sums up the whole problem with what happens when you hire cheap unqualified technical people to design and service this stuff. I heard a "radio maintenance tech" call 220 on the "Ft. Pierce / West Palm" repeater channel for a radio check. Now I hear the guy 10-2 on Ft. Pierce, but 220 hears him 10-1 and only gets static. Why? Because 220 is locked onto West Palm, not Ft. Pierce, and I heard it the same way when I hit scan and switched to the West Palm repeater. The system design is using one common input freq and tone for both repeater locations...and these are spaced 30 to 40 miles apart...maybe more (not smart). So the dispatcher often hears the more distant repeater when the clear one is working well. They often hear the wrong one. Either there is a voting problem or a scan problem, or maybe just bad design, but this is a bad idea to begin with. I have heard more confusion and 10-1 reports from this stupid design than I can count. And this is not the only area where they have this design problem. These people are clueless! So, the "tech" does several more radio checks and can't figure it out. He quits trying because he just doesn't "get it". :roll:

What a sorry bunch that outfit has for tech/engineering people. Why would anyone design a system like this? You are going to be noisy on one or the other depending on which end you are on. There is no voting or landline connection between the two repeaters. This is stupid! The dispatchers don't sound too sharp either. This is yet another example of "cheaper is not better". You get what you pay for! But yet they waste on what they have no idea about in the first place. They waste resources, time, and frequency space...and put agents life in danger when the system fails them in an emergency. In contrast CBP and Charlie 100 have a fairly good national system with good frequency reuse and dispatchers that sound sharp and professional. The difference is night and day. Another "merger" that really is not a good fit. I hope they scrap the 220 system and return the pool freqs so they can be used better by an agency that knows how to design an efficient national system.

Rant over ~

I feel a little better now

Phil

 

[DaveNF2G]

In my area, federal radio systems are maintained under contract by local radio shops, so the quality of service is dependent on the contractor, not the agency.

The techs I know who work on the federal systems understand how they work but are unwilling to talk about specifics, which is how it should be, IMO.

 

[SOFA_KING]

In my area, federal radio systems are maintained under contract by local radio shops, so the quality of service is dependent on the contractor, not the agency.

The techs I know who work on the federal systems understand how they work but are unwilling to talk about specifics, which is how it should be, IMO.

"Maintained" being the key word here...but system design is usually done by the agency, not the contracor. BP has a national system concept, although it is resouce wastful. And while we are speaking of "contractors", that leads to an almost automatic loss of management. The contractors have their budget concerns (lots of low ballers out there) and are not always doing the best thing for the agency. There is also usually a disconnect from the designers, or owners, where one doesn't always see eye to eye with the other. It may look good on paper, but at the end of the day quality suffers...at least that is how I see it. Things done in-house have better control over management and quality. But you still have to hire people who know what they are doing and care to do it right. If you ask me, BP never really did it right. Others have done it better.

Phil

 

[ChrisP]

I found a good list of SD County Border Patrol/Customs freq's....but they are seem to be in the 161 range....wouldn't Homeland Secuirty/Customs, etc. being using a trunk system by now?

- Josh

Check both the SoCal Scanner site (http://www.socalscanner.com/) and the ScanDiego (SCANDIEGO.COM Main Page) for some of the Border Patrol frequencies for Southern California. They've tried to keep track of the Border Patrol and have the results posted on their sites. The others are correct that they are encrypted for the most part, but some clear traffic can be heard.

The San Diego and Southern California areas are somewhat unique in that the Border Patrol is using a completely non-standard (for the CBP) set of frequencies there. I did a write-up on this system back in the January 2005 issue of Monitoring Times. It was the first wide deployment of P-25 conventional radios for the Border Patrol that started back in early 2003, I believe.

- Chris

 

[brandon]

Here are some recent loggings from SoCal. Border Patrol is mostly encrypted but still able to monitor at times.

163.6500 - $145 - Wide Area 1
163.7500 - $109 - DHS/ICE. Simulcast with 168.975
165.0375 - $186 - Border Patrol. '823'. Sounds like the input to Temecula West 170.6625
165.8250 - $108 - DHS/ICE. Simulcast with 168.850.
166.6375 - $183 - Border Patrol - Temecula East
166.9125 - $245 - Wide Area 4 (Santiago Peak). This net can be patched to San Diego RCS. Simulcasts with 167.375 and 167.525
167.3750 - $249 - Wide Area 4 (Palomar). Simulcasts with 166.9125 and 167.525
167.5250 - $247 - Border Patrol - Wide Area 4 (Otay Mtn)
168.5000 - $199 - Border Patrol. El Cajon? '820' 'Echo units'
168.8000 - $170 - J/Ops MC for Metro San Diego.
168.8250 - $104 - DHS/ICE.
168.8500 - $110 - DHS/ICE. Simulcast with 165.825.
168.9750 - $106 - DHS/ICE. Simulcast with 163.750.
169.4500 - 100.0 - US Customs Maritime enforcement in San Diego.
170.0625 - $193 - Border Patrol.
170.6625 - $185 - Border Patrol - Temecula West
170.6750 - $113 - DHS/ICE. San Bernardino and LA county area.
171.5125 - $188 - Border Patrol.
171.5375 - $180 - Border Patrol. 'Otay Lakes' 'Hwy94'
172.1875 - $195 - Border Patrol. 'Brown2' 'Hwy94' 'Omaha'
173.4500 - $197 - Border Patrol. '827'
173.9750 - $191 - Border Patrol. Chula Vista

When I lived in San Diego 169.450 and 163.125 were the most interesting for US Customs.

Other good sources and lists for Border Patrol and other SoCal federal monitoring

SoCalFedCom : Southern California Federal Communications
ScanDiego.com - FedGov - Southern California Activity in 2009 - SoCalFedCom
ScanRiverside.com - FedCom logs from Riverside County - updated 7/2/2009
MT Fed Files: SoCal Federal Searching

 

[akanuaka]

Same here. BP is the worst at wasting frequencies and bad system design. They have some real low quality people in that org.

In fact, I heard something today that made me sick and sums up the whole problem with what happens when you hire cheap unqualified technical people to design and service this stuff. I heard a "radio maintenan
What a sorry bunch that outfit has for tech/engineering people. Why would anyone design a system like this? Y In contrast CBP and Charlie 100 have a fairly good national system with good frequency reuse and dispatchers that sound sharp and professional. The difference is night and day. Another "merger" that really is not a good fit. I hope they scrap the 220 system and return the pool freqs so they can be used better by an agency that knows how to design an efficient national system.

Rant over ~

I feel a little better now

Phil

Hmmm, well I only half-agree with you. As with all government agencies there are the sharp and the retired in place. CBP Suffers from both. Before you assail the BP you should really come up to speed on a couple of important points. The first is that the BP no longer has in-house radio techs that 'belong' to them since the Customs/INS Merger. BP went from a DOJ agency to an 'Office' of the CBP. In all mergers, someone wins, someone loses. Customs won in this merger- check out that name sometime Customs and Border Protection. Alphabetically what comes first B or C?

Anyway, when the merger occurred all radio and IT/Computer folks were put into a single Office of Information Technology (mucha like all Air and Marine Assets were put into a single Office 'AMO' in the new CBP= the border patrol no longer 'owns' its own aircraft )but retains some small watercraft) regardless of what the paint may say) which is every bit of a standalone branch of CBP as the Office of Border Patrol is (the new name).

Again, supervision, motivation, technical ability, creativity, budget are all big factors and vary widely from place to place. ALL of the Computer and Radio items are owned & maintained by OIT. Here is something that might cloud your conclusions with facts, the OIT people that maintain the C100 Net and OBP systems are part of the exact same organization- if not the very same people depending on region and assignment. So while it might be true you have a retard tech in your area, also know that he is likely just trying to limp your analog system across the line until the new P25 system comes on line. No worries, it wont be long if it has not happened in your locale yet- it will soon it has been mandated by NIST.

-What a sorry bunch that outfit has for tech/engineering people. Why would anyone design a system like -this? ! The dispatchers don't sound too sharp either. This is yet another example of "cheaper is not -better".....

Can't defend a personality I don't know. I believe the postion title is Sector Enforcement Specialist for both the CBP/C100 and OBP for 'dispatcher' formally known as LECA's or Law Enforcement Communications Assistant. Generally speaking the OBP folks are GS-9's and the C100 folks are GS-11's. Why, it likely boils down to Customs won and Immigration lost in the merger. Some think it is keep the C100 folks from moving around, the agency says internally that it is because the C100 folk support a larger area a one time. The work is similar in many ways and none of these folks are overworked like a 911 dispatcher might be.

As for the quality of people again cant begin to defend someone I do not know. However, the law is that Vets get preference in the form of points at time of application. The Federal Government does not tend to make it easy for experienced folks to hire on so a experienced dispatcher are a bit of a rarity in the federal world. Someone with years of experience can apply and score a 97 out of 100 only to be eclipsed by a 90 point vet who gets 15 preference points with a 105 total.

When the public applicant (non-federal) lists (also 'cert' or certified list) are referred to a local hiring authority they are generally sent on the rule of three and they must exhaust those applicants before they get more names from the list at OPM.

If there are 3 Vets on the publ cert/list sent down from OPM and they are not excludable for some reason, then the hiring authority generally has to hire them or have a really really darn defenably good reason not to. There are Vets organizations that by law can appeal and the govt has to answer to if one of these applicants gripes. Better qualified applicant is not a good enough reason by the way.

I honor the veterans service as they paid in blood, seat and limbs for our freedom from the very beginning of our country. But, I believe the best qualified applicant should get the job not the one with the most preference points.

This a problem in recruiting 'the best' in the federal service. A motivated 28 year old or a burned out 30 year retired navy/army grunt looking for a retirement job- the best applicant should get the job not the one with the most points. Pay attention to the fed vocabulary on this one- they are looking for 'good applicants' not the best or most qualified. Good means alot fi different things to different folks so you need to pay attention to that word and how it is used.

and put agents life in danger when the system fails them in an emergency.

Agreed, this is a problem.

-In contrast CBP and Charlie 100 have a fairly good national system with good frequency reuse and -dispatchers that sound sharp and professional.

Sharp and professional might be due to lack of workload, then again it might be because the they are bright and sharp. There are plenty of both in both organizations.

Sorry about the hi-jack but I saw some misconceptions and wanted to offer some facts.

Aloha,
AL

 

[SOFA_KING]

Al,

Thanks for that interesting insight. I have no idea of the employment situation or contract status at INS/BP, and I was answering the "contractor" concerns with DaveNF2G based on his comments . You have made the actual BP practice clear. Sorry to hear the "best person" is not always getting the job, but I really think the problem goes back to system design. Who did that? And this goes back many years as the design is old. Perhaps the new P25 stuff will be better, but from what I see where it has converted, it is still a frequency hog with no pattern of a national reuse standard. I think there must be some issue with the design people, whoever they are. As for the qualty of maintenance, that is another issue, but not the main problem with the system "concept".

Phil

 

[texasemt13]

... an agency that knows how to design an efficient national system.

Phil

I'm really liking this FPS model...

CBP seems to have a lot more traffic (around here) than the FPS (though that may not be so in larger Metro areas), but the efficiency of the FPS system is awesome. The quality of their P25 signal is great in their service areas as well.

 

[SOFA_KING]

FPS in Miami has a wide area repeater that does cover a large area (old analog), but there are areas beyond that have no coverage, as far as I can tell. But FPS has been known to reuse a group of frequencies, and that is good,

Phil