Fed Freqs - Pittsburgh PA Area 8/2009 (G20 summit related?)

[mtindor]

I've been hearing a ton of P25 activity on VHF - very strange frequencies (unless you realize that feds can transmit anywhere).

All of the ones below were heard 8/4 and 8/5/2009. Most if not all of the frequencies with a 167 NAC were predominantly [but not always] encrypted. Furthermore, they are linked most of the time, if not all of the time. Anytime I hear traffic on one, I hear traffic on all the NAC 167 freqs.

People say the FBI likes to use a 167 NAC, so those may be FBI. But they could be anything.

The G-20 Summit is coming up in September in Pittsburgh - so this increased activity is probably in preparation for that.

As I have more, I'll post them. At least one of these is probably the VA Hospital in Pittsburgh (not a 167 NAC).

150.5625 NAC 167 P25
150.6000 NAC 167 P25
153.2225 NAC 167 P25
157.6425 NAC 167 P25
168.8250 NAC 167 P25
163.9500 NAC 173 P25
165.9750 NAC 167 P25
168.5000 NAC 100 P25 Clear
169.0125 NAC 357 P25
169.4000 NAC 167 P25
169.8000 NAC 389 P25
171.3875 NAC 167 P25

Listening to encrypted comms is far from exciting. But once in a while you'll hear something in the clear.

Mike

[trashman43]

You got some very interesting catches there. A couple of the places I wouldn't have thought to have looked.

[ecps92]

169.8000 reported as CBP in PA

Someone reported months the 150.5625 as CAP, altho the NAC of $167
tends to make me think Nope. Altho we are all learning the new CAP channels slowly as each Wing comes on-line with the [Dual Mode] Network, so far NO Encryption when they have played with P25, so I think it's another agency. Most likely a near-by Mil.Base ?

In NJ 169.4000 is NPS, but Analog

Originally Posted by mtindor

As I have more, I'll post them. At least one of these is probably the VA Hospital in Pittsburgh (not a 167 NAC).

150.5625 NAC 167 P25
150.6000 NAC 167 P25
153.2225 NAC 167 P25
157.6425 NAC 167 P25
168.8250 NAC 167 P25
163.9500 NAC 173 P25
165.9750 NAC 167 P25
168.5000 NAC 100 P25 Clear
169.0125 NAC 357 P25
169.4000 NAC 167 P25
169.8000 NAC 389 P25
171.3875 NAC 167 P25

Listening to encrypted comms is far from exciting. But once in a while you'll hear something in the clear.

Mike

[mtindor]

Originally Posted by ecps92

Someone reported months the 150.5625 as CAP, altho the NAC of $167

Bill,

I'm the one who originally reported 150.6525 as [possibly] CAP. I never gave it a thought that it would be anything else since it was out of the Pittsburgh area and was on a new CAP narrowband freq. But as you said, that'd be strange with the 167 NAC that just happens to be matching all the other fed activity around. Who knows though. I was never able to pinpoint it down to CAP. At that time I remember that the few times I heard activity they were in the clear and were a man and lady trying to learn the radios so that they could test out the encrypted side.

Given the signal strength from my location, all of these freqs would likely be in WPA. I know the 157 Mhz freq is used a bit over in Pittsburgh area since they are sometimes in the clear and describe locations. I'm not aware of any military close enough to provide that signal strength unless they were in WPA as well - the military down in West Virginia and Northern Ohio would be too far away to provide that signal strength.

No idea who they really were.

With so many of them potentially being linked now, it's hard to tell where the real transmissions are occurring at any given time. Either yourself or somebody else I spoke with via email indicated that some of fed stuff is linked across geographical locations (pittsburgh / philadelphia for instance).

Mike

[mtindor]

Originally Posted by trashman43

You got some very interesting catches there. A couple of the places I wouldn't have thought to have looked.

Trust me, I didn't think to look in most of those places - I merely spent a day doign constant searches between 150-174. None of them were images, they were all legit - and in fact, strong enough for me to hear all the freqs on my handheld with a ducky (albeit weak).

Mike

[ecps92]

Ahh, yes, hard to keep track of all the INTEL posted !

Much of my [New England] CAP has been RE-USE of existing Repeaters.
148.1250 Primary and 148.1500 Secondary [Still searching for Temp/Airborne Rptr] all with NEW inputs [old inputs Gone]

I would begin [if not already] to expand into

138-144, 148-150.8, 162-174, 406-420 as the time draws near.

Originally Posted by mtindor

Bill,

I'm the one who originally reported 150.6525 as [possibly] CAP. I never gave it a thought that it would be anything else since it was out of the Pittsburgh area and was on a new CAP narrowband freq. But as you said, that'd be strange with the 167 NAC that just happens to be matching all the other fed activity around. Who knows though. I was never able to pinpoint it down to CAP. At that time I remember that the few times I heard activity they were in the clear and were a man and lady trying to learn the radios so that they could test out the encrypted side.

Given the signal strength from my location, all of these freqs would likely be in WPA. I know the 157 Mhz freq is used a bit over in Pittsburgh area since they are sometimes in the clear and describe locations. I'm not aware of any military close enough to provide that signal strength unless they were in WPA as well - the military down in West Virginia and Northern Ohio would be too far away to provide that signal strength.

No idea who they really were.

With so many of them potentially being linked now, it's hard to tell where the real transmissions are occurring at any given time. Either yourself or somebody else I spoke with via email indicated that some of fed stuff is linked across geographical locations (pittsburgh / philadelphia for instance).

Mike

[MOTEX]

I live about 45 miles from Pittsburgh and have heard several aircraft ordered to land and exit in no fly zones.
In every case, the USAF identified themselves to the unknown aircraft, and gave them warning they were nearing a restricted area.
If they entered the zone, they were told where the nearest zone exit was.
All these transmissions were heard on 121.500mhz.

[ChrisP]

Originally Posted by MOTEX

I live about 45 miles from Pittsburgh and have heard several aircraft ordered to land and exit in no fly zones.
In every case, the USAF identified themselves to the unknown aircraft, and gave them warning they were nearing a restricted area.
If they entered the zone, they were told where the nearest zone exit was.
All these transmissions were heard on 121.500mhz.

Interesting - I wouldn't think the No Fly Zones for the G-20 would be in effect yet. I wonder if this was related to something else. If the 121.5 transmissions were from an airborne asset, they could have come form quite a ways away.

- Chris

[seligman]

Amtrak Police was granted a temporary FCC license for the G20 Summit. Their FCC application has an attachment that confirms this.

Here's the license:
ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQKQ793 - National Railroad Passenger Corporation dba AMTRAK

160.680 - FB, FB2, MO
161.550 - MO
173.325 - FB, MO

[mtindor]

Originally Posted by mtindor

150.5625 NAC 167 P25
150.6000 NAC 167 P25
153.2225 NAC 167 P25
157.6425 NAC 167 P25
168.8250 NAC 167 P25
163.9500 NAC 173 P25
165.9750 NAC 167 P25
168.5000 NAC 100 P25 Clear
169.0125 NAC 357 P25
169.4000 NAC 167 P25
169.8000 NAC 389 P25
171.3875 NAC 167 P25

Heard fairly active tonight - clear and encrypted - the following:

150.5625 167 NAC
150.6000 167 NAC
157.6425 167 NAC
165.8250 167 NAC
165.9750 167 NAC
166.1250 167 NAC
169.4000 167 NAC
169.4250 167 NAC

All broadcasting at same time.

Mike

[SOFA_KING]

Originally Posted by mtindor

Heard fairly active tonight - clear and encrypted - the following:

150.5625 167 NAC
150.6000 167 NAC
157.6425 167 NAC
165.8250 167 NAC
165.9750 167 NAC
166.1250 167 NAC
169.4000 167 NAC
169.4250 167 NAC

All broadcasting at same time.

Mike

Mike,

I hate to say it, but it looks like images to me. I have been fooled several times myself. Are you sure there is no FBI transmitter close to your location?

Phil

[ecps92]

Phil, I'm thinking the same thing, especially with the 157 channel.

I've been burned, caught encrpytion [speech inversion] on 164.1500 and then found out it was the Cab Co from a 152 Mhz channel [Now I know better, and use more than One Radio to validate]

Originally Posted by SOFA_KING

Mike,

I hate to say it, but it looks like images to me. I have been fooled several times myself. Are you sure there is no FBI transmitter close to your location?

Phil

[mtindor]

Guys, it's simple - don't listen to the frequencies. Hell, you probably aren't even in the area. I'll just keep what I hear to myself.

In summary, no I don't believe any of them are images. I dont have them all programmed in my Pro-97 (why would I, I've only heard P25 on them) but I do have four of those above programmed in to it as well, and I'm hearing the traffic on those.

On my primary listening scanner, a PRO-197, some are stronger than others and their signal strength ranged between 3 and 5 bars. I can turn on the attenuator and still hear every one of them (none of them above 3 bars and most of them too weak to decode). Some days I have better signal on them, some days worse.

And, I've personally never gotten good P25 decode on an image. Not saying it can't happen, but usually when I'm listening to a P25 image I can't get a decode on the image freq.

Mike

[ecps92]

Mike don't take our comments personally. We are just helping.

I know what "WE - Scannists" ran across during the DNC in Boston.
Lots were learned. Patched channels, Part-time Patching, Common inputs with Multiple outputs, Intermod and of course the damn Images.

Originally Posted by mtindor

Guys, it's simple - don't listen to the frequencies. Hell, you probably aren't even in the area. I'll just keep what I hear to myself.



In summary, no I don't believe any of them are images. I dont have them all programmed in my Pro-97 (why would I, I've only heard P25 on them) but I do have four of those above programmed in to it as well, and I'm hearing the traffic on those.

On my primary listening scanner, a PRO-197, some are stronger than others and their signal strength ranged between 3 and 5 bars. I can turn on the attenuator and still hear every one of them (none of them above 3 bars and most of them too weak to decode). Some days I have better signal on them, some days worse.

And, I've personally never gotten good P25 decode on an image. Not saying it can't happen, but usually when I'm listening to a P25 image I can't get a decode on the image freq.

Mike

[eorange]

Originally Posted by SOFA_KING

Mike,

I hate to say it, but it looks like images to me. I have been fooled several times myself. Are you sure there is no FBI transmitter close to your location?

If all of those receives are images...then what would be the source of all that encryption in a fairly narrow band, if it wasn't fed? Just wondering...

[ecps92]

We are not saying they are not FED, and the $167 NAC points us toward One Agency. What we are saying is the listed frequencies are suspect.

Example: [Based on my GRE600 Experience]

164.1500 had an image of 152.4500 = 11.7 Mhz

150.5625 could be 162.2625
150.6000 could be 162.3000
157.6425 could be 169.3375/169.3500
etc etc

The 165 and up, are likely Correct.

What makes ME think Image is the 157 channel.

Obvious not even in the FED Bands.

Also, I could be entirely WRONG [not the first time], but we are suggesting look elsewhere as well and use multiple Radios.

Anyone else in the area getting these freq's? Also not the make/model

Originally Posted by eorange

If all of those receives are images...then what would be the source of all that encryption in a fairly narrow band, if it wasn't fed? Just wondering...

[eorange]

Ah, I understand now - thanks.

[Vweasel]

The flowing repeaters are being used by the secret service for the g20. Don't know what the freq. Are but I do have the names of the repater. The radios are on top of the Hilton hotel.

Baker
Charlie
Mike
Papa
Tango

[mtindor]

I hear images from time to time, some more prominent than others depending on the band and the proximity of the transmitters to my location.

Even on the strongest of signals on VHF, I have never seen any images 10.7 Mhz up or down of any strong frequency. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but I've never experienced it. And these signals aren't as strong as some of the signals that shoudl produce images if an image were going to be produced.

It's a triple conversion scanner - The 1st IF is 380 Mhz. It's a bit less likely that you'd see a 21.4 / 10.7 image on VHF as compared to a dual conversion scanner with the 1st IF of 21.4.

I can guarantee that 150.5625 is legit. This definitely is not an image.

150.6000, being so close to 150.5625 could be a frequency to question - although I still receive it clearly with perfect P25 decode with the attenuator turned on... leading me to believe it is not. It's definitely not an image of 161.300 (which is +10.7 Mhz ).

157.6425 was first noticed a few months before I noticed all teh linking going on - and it was the P25 signal present across VHF while I listened to it at that time. They were in PGH area staking out a bar one time with cars getting into positions at the corners of the end of the block the bar was on. I listened to them for a while and at that time intentionally tried to find any other activity on the band while they were talkign. I'm sure there was an input somewhere to be heard, but I was too far away for that. At any rate, since 157.6425 was used standalone back then and then only reared its head in combination with a bunch of others as the G20 approached, I have no reason to believe it isn't a legitimate transmitter of its own vs an image.

I'm not claiming that every frequency I listed is absolutely positively 100% correctly identified as an actual transmitter. But I believe that everything I listed is an actual transmitter with the exception of 150.6000 (which I'll have to check into further).

Look elsewhere? How in the world do you think I came about that list if I weren't looking elsewhere? Hearing 157.6425 initially many months back is what caused me to start searching elsewhere (and at that time for a some weeks it was the only traffic I was hearing P25). When I would hear traffic on it I would scan VHF to find others. Then one day I scanned VHF while hearing traffic on 157.6425 and that's when I started noticing a ton of other transmitters - and I attributed that to them setting up for the G20. I don't always hear all traffic on all of them, but most of the time I do.

Over the weekend i heard a lot of traffic. Today I've been listening all day and have only heard a few transmissions (and all were encrypted).

Given that these frequencies are frequently encrypted, they probably won't make for good listening even in the middle of the G20. There are probably a ton fo other frequencies in use that will prove to be far more interesting (including all the stuff the PGH Police will be using and 400 Mhz frequencies, simplex frequencies, etc).

I'm just passing along what I hear . After the G20, I might never hear anything on the majority of the frequencies.

Mike

[SOFA_KING]

I was burned on a USCG image from 150.7250. It showed up on four frequencies in the 162+ range. I even reported it here, as I thought this was a new system that "might" be ICE for S. FL. I was duped! I heard those images for a 7 mile radius from the 150 TX location, and pretty strong within a few miles. I found the source frequency with matching NAC on a search in the 150 area during a band opening. I went back to that area (Boca) to confirm it was the same thing and tracked it down. It was. The surprise was that on TX freq showed up as multiple images at multiple freqs. Tripple conversion anls increases the amount of mix combos. That has been my experience with several TC scanners. There is much more math involved.

You may have the real deal there. I'm not saying it is bougs. Like Bill, I was fooled once...and you know the old saying. "Fool me once..."

Phil