Re: Scammers on RadioReference And Calssifieds

[WayneH]

Everyone, I've tried my hardest to get steps in place to provide safety in dealing with members on this site but it is NOT easy. Due to all the problems right now I am hot on Lindsay to do something about it. I cannot express the feelings I have for the people scammed by members on here; luckily none of these scammers live near me. I really wish people would be more careful! Some of you are waaaay to trustful of people. Originally we had hoped that people could express some form of caution with doing trades and using certain forms of payment with sales but that didn't work out. I'm giving you guys my word things are going to change but you have to be patient.


AlabamaRS, seriously, I recommend you go find another thread because you're digging yourself a hole.

[tumegpc]

My suggestions ..
In order for RR members to sell you must be a Premium Subscriber . Or a Premium Plus Subscriber - Where you must pay an additional fee to access the Classifieds. Members that have negative feedback will be required to renew quarterly with Administrative review with possible approval . This should weed out some of the hit and run scammers .

[JLM7424]

Originally Posted by tumegpc

Premium Plus Subscriber -

Hmmm . Never seen that before ! Is their such thing ?

[FLRAILMAN]

I just spoke to the customer service & postal inspectors office of USPS & advised them of the problem occuring & disrupting our site & both offices concurred that only if both parties are willing, all sales transactions should be handled COD, The seller of the product sends the merchandise COD certified return receipt, requesting that only the recipient can sign for the package & must pay the mail carrier by US postal money order only. The inspectors office advised me that carriers are trained to spot phony or tampered with postal money orders. He also advised me that although nothing is 100% foolproof & if something should go amiss & they are notified, a speedy & extremely thorough investigation is initiated & they have a very high success rate. Below are the phone numbers & e-mail addresses of both departments should anyone be in need of their services. I hope this helps in some way to alleviate future scams.
FLRAILMAN
US post office customer service
USPS - The United States Postal Service (U.S. Postal Service)
1-800-275-8777

US postal inspectors office
postalinspectors.uspis.gov
1-877-876-2455

[scosgt]

Originally Posted by FLRAILMAN

I just spoke to the customer service & postal inspectors office of USPS & advised them of the problem occuring & disrupting our site & both offices concurred that only if both parties are willing, all sales transactions should be handled COD, The seller of the product sends the merchandise COD certified return receipt, requesting that only the recipient can sign for the package & must pay the mail carrier by US postal money order only. The inspectors office advised me that carriers are trained to spot phony or tampered with postal money orders. He also advised me that although nothing is 100% foolproof & if something should go amiss & they are notified, a speedy & extremely thorough investigation is initiated & they have a very high success rate. Below are the phone numbers & e-mail addresses of both departments should anyone be in need of their services. I hope this helps in some way to alleviate future scams.
FLRAILMAN
US post office customer service
USPS - The United States Postal Service (U.S. Postal Service)
1-800-275-8777

US postal inspectors office
postalinspectors.uspis.gov
1-877-876-2455

And how does that prevent a scammer from sending a box of rocks? Once paid for, the postal employee is not giving back your MO.

[LarryMax]

Here's an idea...Don't allow any selling, trading, buying on RR.

Problem solved, no time lost, and no one gets scammed.

[FLRAILMAN]

Originally Posted by scosgt

And how does that prevent a scammer from sending a box of rocks? Once paid for, the postal employee is not giving back your MO.

Larrymax you couldn't have made it any more clearer. This person who responded to my post obviously doesn't get it. I am clearly quoting what the postal inspector said, nothing is 100% percent guaranteed, obviously that's why they exist, boxes of rocks or whatever the case. If one is that worried about the possibility of getting scammed by purchasing used equipment from a private party, then buy new equipment from a store. End of story.
FLRAILMAN

[LarryMax]

I think you quoted the wrong person

Or the right person with the wrong name?

[FLRAILMAN]

I was agreeing with you Larrymax but I was quoting that person who had absolutely nothing to contribute to finding any kind of solution to this scamming epidemic that has our site totally in chaos except what should I do if I get a box of rocks, I actually agree with you, just drop the for sale & items wanted & just be done with it. I have no compassion for people who do nothing but whine & complain while the site & forums administrators are working diligently with the contributing membership like you, myself & the multitude of the membership here who have contributed some very sound ideas to find a speedy solution to this plague.

[Net-5]

Buyer beware no matter what, I'd say. RR can work on it and come up with more guidelines if they want to, but there is always going to be the potential to get scammed when not dealing with somebody in person.

I would like to see the classifieds remain on RR. They are a natural element of this place and why not?

If the classifieds got too out of hand, how about appointing a moderator(s) to that section and ads don't get posted without being reviewed by a moderator first, in accordance with stricter RR policy? That could be a lot of work for somebody, but I'm reading some passionate comments here so maybe one of you could step-up and be a mod with RR's approval? And clean it up?

Meanwhile, PayPal sucks. I don't use 'em...

[FLRAILMAN]

Net-5 I totally agree with you on that if the site administrator could come up with a sound workable plan without too much strain on anyone. I'm retired from the PD so I know paperwork & would gladly step up to the plate without hesitation.
FLRAILMAAN

[Net-5]

Originally Posted by FLRAILMAN

Net-5 I totally agree with you on that if the site administrator could come up with a sound workable plan without too much strain on anyone. I'm retired from the PD so I know paperwork & would gladly step up to the plate without hesitation.
FLRAILMAAN

Thanks, FLRAILMAN. I'm retired PD myself, so nice to meet you.

Moderation may take some getting used to but if the problems are bad enough in the classified section, then I think that is the way to go. Another idea might be to cut certain sellers off of moderation and allow them to post ads without it if they have been proven to be reliable here first. So just keep the new sellers on moderation for, I dunno, maybe 10 successful sales with no complaints? Not perfect but maybe it would help some? You might want to PM the admin folks here and see what they think about you volunteering to be a part of that. Former LE would be a great moderator in my opinion.

Users who have been ID'd as scammers can be banned and their IP addresses recorded in case they try to return under different user names. Plus that info can come in handy in building a case if postal inspectors or other LE needs to get involved. No system is perfect but whatever would make RR a harder target for scammers, while at the same time keeping RR easy to use, would be a good thing.

I'd like to see the classifieds stay. How else can I drool over nifty radio gear that I can't quite afford?? According to my wife, anyway...

[FLRAILMAN]

Net-5, works for me, I'll get on it, I retired from Conrail PD. What fun.
FLRAILMAN

[MTS2000des]

my 2 cents, as a long time member in good standing of the Batlabs Batboard (since it was a Yahoo group in 2001), we have developed a system that filters out the majority of scammers. We've had our share of Simon Lively (aka AcesWarehouse) who stole more than $22,000 in funds and equipment from 30 members. And we learned that just allowing anyone to post in the buy/sell/trade without being an "established" member is not a good idea.

So about 4 years ago, the administration instituted a policy that requires one to be a member in good standing for several months at least, before they can post in that area. They must also have demonstrated to be a contributing member to the forum (e.g., actively posting relevant info to topics, not spamming just to get post count up, etc.) and have provided references to the administration or being known by the community of being a reputable character. Does this totally eliminate the deals gone bad? Nope, it hasn't. But it sure cut down about 85 percent of them.

It stopped the "one post wonder" of a person registering just to sell an item. This should be a dead ringer anyway especially when someone is selling a high dollar item (Astro 25 portable for instance) for a low price...RUN don't walk away. One must still do their own detective work BEFORE engaging in a transaction. The same Internet browser that brings one here can provide a plethora of information if one just looks. And if it doesn't feel right, DON'T! There is no totally safe online transaction- it's all a game of risk. But there are some basic steps we can all do to minimize the risk.

I think instituting the Batlabs policy would greatly reduce these scamming losers' ability to pull what I see happening quite frequently on here in comparison. I've done literally a couple hundred transactions in the B/S/T forums over there and only had one issue (and it was resolved) in the past decade.

[AlabamaRS]

paying by COD http://www.usps.com/prices/collect-o...ery-prices.htm

[FLRAILMAN]

Very good point made AlabamaRS, it's called trying to find a workable solution to alleviate this great injustice that has befallen our site, not trying to tear down other peoples ideas on this site who are working dilligently to help the admistration solve this problem. Kudos to you although I think the rockman still doesn't have a clue, I like to hear a workable solution from him, if he is capable.
FLRAILMAN

[FFPM571]

First and foremost. Caveat emptor. If someone is a new user and they have something that a high dollar radio or item and they are selling it for way less than the average used market, That alone should raise a red flag. The majority of buyers and sellers here know scanners and radios, Ham or commerical we know what a going price is on a used item or know enough about what to look for. I agree with MTS2000des I've been on the Batboard for 9 yrs and what they have works. Sure you get a few issues. But its well run and keeps the rif-raf out. I have had good luck here with and without using paypal.

If its too good to be true. It probably is.

[AlabamaRS]

Originally Posted by FLRAILMAN

Very good point made AlabamaRS, it's called trying to find a workable solution to alleviate this great injustice that has befallen our site, not trying to tear down other peoples ideas on this site who are working dilligently to help the admistration solve this problem. Kudos to you although I think the rockman still doesn't have a clue, I like to hear a workable solution from him, if he is capable.
FLRAILMAN

Thank you very much for the kind words
Paul

[kb2vxa]

Too many people think "there aught to be a law" and now we find ourselves living in a nanny state. Your mommy doesn't live here and it's not Lindsay's responsibility to do your thinking for you. You're a big boy/girl now so it's time you accepted responsibility for your actions right or wrong. If reading the feedback on this and other sites isn't enough then God help you or spank you as needed.

[PeterGV]

I totally agree with new members having to wait (time or posts) before being able to post in FS/WTB.

On Batlabs (Motorola stuff) you can't post in For Sale / Want To Buy until you've made a reputation for yourself and one of the mods personally approves you. That STILL doesn't stop jerks from occasionally being jerks, but the incidence of down-right fraudulent behavior is waaaay low there.

So, Lindsay... count me as one more vote for establishing minimum requirements to post to the For Sale / Want to Buy forums.

Peter
K1PGV