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General Scanning Discussion For general questions not specific to a model of scanner or general discussion of use of a scanner. Location specific posts should be directed to the regional forums listed below.

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Old 02-20-2012, 4:14 PM
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Default 764 to 805 Mhz

I am looking to buy a digital capable scanner that covers the 764 to 805 band without any blocks. Can anyone tell me if they have a scanner like that?

Thanks
Moonbounce
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Old 02-20-2012, 6:33 PM
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Depends where you are located: If in the USA then no. That block contains freqs used by cellular phones. Back in 1986 (I think it was) congress made it illegal for scanners to receive cellular freqs because of privacy issues.

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Old 02-20-2012, 6:45 PM
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ScannerWayne

I am talking about the 758 to 825 mhz band, the cell band was from 825 to 850 and 870 to 890 approx.
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Old 02-20-2012, 6:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScannerWayne View Post
Depends where you are located: If in the USA then no. That block contains freqs used by cellular phones. Back in 1986 (I think it was) congress made it illegal for scanners to receive cellular freqs because of privacy issues.



Wayne...
I've never heard of a cell phone in the 764 to 805 range.

The lowest the AMPS band went was like 825 MHz and I don't think any cell phone bands existed that were lower in freq range than AMPS was.

The old rule only applied to the AMPS band as for as I know.
870 to 890 and 825 to 845 MHz roughly. although I think that was extended some when they added more than the original 666 channels but not by more than 5 MHZ about from what I recall.
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Old 02-20-2012, 7:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonbounce View Post
I am looking to buy a digital capable scanner that covers the 764 to 805 band without any blocks. Can anyone tell me if they have a scanner like that?

Thanks
Moonbounce
As far as I know, the Uniden 996XT and 396XT will tune that range with no problem.
I just entered in the bottom and top frequencies of your range as well as a few random freqs in between and it accepted them all no problem.
I did not try and run a search through the entire range though but will if you need it.

I think the GRE's had some type of block enabled in the repeater input area of the 700 MHz public safety band and that may be the range you are talking about as I think the 700 band uses the higher freqs in the allocated band for the repeater inputs.
They said the scanner had issues with interference in that range or some excuse like that. I figure they were asked to remove it so the bad guys could not use the scanner to detect the presence of local powerful signals even if it was encrypted. The signal level is all a bad guy needs on the input range to tell if the police are near. Encryption does not matter.
I had a PSR500 before they added that block and it did not have any interference problems in that range!
That's just my suspicion of course.
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Old 02-20-2012, 7:12 PM
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Default 764 MHz to 805 MHz

The cellphone bands are 824 MHz to 849 MHz & 869 MHz to 894 MHz, even my UBC9000XLT covers 764 MHz to 805 MHz but alas no digital.
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Old 02-20-2012, 7:13 PM
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The narrowband public safety band is 769-775 base and 799-805 mobile.
As far as I know all modern high end scanners cover it.
Check the specs on the manufacturers' web sites before you buy one.
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Old 02-20-2012, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by kruser View Post
I figure they were asked to remove it so the bad guys could not use the scanner to detect the presence of local powerful signals even if it was encrypted.
That is totally wrong. If it was true then all public safety frequencies would be blocked.
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Old 02-20-2012, 7:18 PM
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Uniden digital models will tune this entire range, 758-823 continuous coverage.

GRE/RS models will only tune 764-782 and 791-797. The reason is because they are susceptible to images from 800 in this range. I own a PSR-410 and I pick up strong images from 850-860 trunked systems in the 791-797 block. I guess GRE just never got it figured out like Uniden did, although given GRE's history of poor front ends, that is not surprising. In any case, they were forced to remove that range to maintain FCC compliance.
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Old 02-20-2012, 7:28 PM
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Kruzer,

I would appreciate it if you would run you radio thru the 764 to 805 to see if it misses any sections. If the radio does not skip any blocks, could you tell me how old it is so I can get an idea as to how far back I need to go to buy a scanner like yours.

Nd5y
Most of the high end scanners that I have looked at don't cover 782 to 791 and 797 to 806 Mhz. They say coverage from 758 through to 824.9 but they don't say that there is some blocked bands like the ones I mentioned, and they are blocked.

Moonbounce

PS: To anyone reading this post I if you could take the time to let me know if your radio (digital only)covers the above mentioned band without any missed blocks. Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-20-2012, 7:41 PM
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The BCD396T skips 776-794. I guess I never paid attention to that.
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Old 02-20-2012, 8:18 PM
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That is totally wrong. If it was true then all public safety frequencies would be blocked.
Not really.
All it takes is someone in bed with GRE to agree to a block of the repeater input ranges.
There have been reports of criminals using scanners tuned to the input side (mobile/portable xmit side) of a repeater. They just use the strong signal strength alone to determine that a LEO is near, very near.
It does not matter if the signal is encrypted or not as they are only looking at signal strengths. They could care less what is being said.

I've worked many times with a group of guys that do security for Monsanto and that is how they protected the meeting rooms from industrial espionage.
They took a fingerprint reading from our transmitters so they did not falsely shut the meeting down. They looked at RF signal strength in general. If they saw a spike not matching out fingerprints, they would go in and shut the meeting down. Criminals can do the same and evade the police even if using encryption. That trick does not work on repeater outputs as they are always the same strength.
I know this trick has been used around here at meth labs before. My source said they hooked up an alarm that triggered if the receiver picked up a signal stronger than a certain threshold. I don't know if they caught the bad guys or not but the chemicals and the scanner were retrieved along with the attached circuit that alerted the bad guys. The LEO's were also not using encryption at the time anyhow.
Of course any smart criminal would know how to build an RF detector and not even need a scanner but who said all crimnals are smart. In the case here that I know of, law enforcement was simply acting on a tip. They did not expect to arrive when things were going on.

Now I did say this was "just my suspicion" and I agree that it is unlikely plus I also agree with what Chauffeur6 said as that actually makes sense.
I recall when the FCC started making them epoxy over the band switching components on the scanner boards so one could not as easily modify a receiver to receive the cell bands through images by switching different band filters in and out of the circuit. This was added into the law a few years after the initial ECPA was enacted.
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Old 02-20-2012, 8:19 PM
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I just ran my BCD996XT through that 764 - 805 range, I get entire coverage through that span, no gaps.
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Old 02-20-2012, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonbounce View Post
Kruzer,

I would appreciate it if you would run you radio thru the 764 to 805 to see if it misses any sections. If the radio does not skip any blocks, could you tell me how old it is so I can get an idea as to how far back I need to go to buy a scanner like yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd5y View Post
The BCD396T skips 776-794. I guess I never paid attention to that.
Moonbounce, as has been pointed out, the 996XT does cover the entire range, no gaps at all. I just tried it on mine.
Mine was bought whenever they released them but the current models for sale still today are the exact same. Unless they block the range with a firmware update, I don't expect this to ever change. The 396 and 996XT models are still current models and can be found at about every place that sells scanners that is worth a darn so you do not need to go back in time!

nd5y, that is interesting the T models skip that range. I also never knew that. I also have a T model (a 996T though) and will have to check that one out also!
Perhaps the T models also had image problems like the GRE's and the XT models do not. Weird for sure.

Last edited by kruser; 02-20-2012 at 8:37 PM..
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Old 02-20-2012, 9:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruser View Post
nd5y, that is interesting the T models skip that range. I also never knew that. I also have a T model (a 996T though) and will have to check that one out also!
Perhaps the T models also had image problems like the GRE's and the XT models do not. Weird for sure.
When the T models were introduced in 2006, the 700 MHz public safety band plan was designated as 764 - 776 base and 794 - 806 mobile. That is why those models (along with some other older scanners that feature 700 MHz coverage, such as the PRO-160 and PRO-162) only cover that range.

This was revised in 2007, with the entire band shifted down 1 MHz, and with the lower portion designated for broadband and the upper portion for narrowband.

In other words, the entire 700 MHz public safety band now runs from 763 - 775 and 793 - 805. The lower portion 763 - 768 and 793 - 798 is for broadband applications (data), while 769 - 775 and 799 - 805 is for narrowband applications (radio). There is a "guard band" between the two segments that runs a full 1 MHz from 768 - 769 and 798 - 799.

When the XT models were introduced in 2009, the 700 MHz coverage was expanded to include basically the entire upper 700 MHz band from 758 - 806, which includes the D Block portion of the spectrum. This range also applies to the HomePatrol. Uniden probably figured since the band had changed once already, and there were no restrictions in place on monitoring any portion of it (unlike the 800 MHz cellular band), why not just include the entire range and be done with it.

The recently passed legislation that gives D Block to public safety adds 758–763 and 788–793 to the already allocated broadband portion of the 700 MHz spectrum, so that it will now run from 758 - 768 and 788 - 798 on the lower broadband portion. A move that Uniden clearly saw when they included D Block coverage on the XT models.

776 – 787 is allocated to the upper portion of C Block (746 – 757 and 776 – 787), which Verizon owns.

Last edited by Chauffeur6; 02-20-2012 at 9:50 PM..
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Old 02-20-2012, 9:52 PM
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Thanks guy's you have been a great help, now I can set my sights on the perfect scanner. Those band that I was mentioning check them out on the Web and you will find that they are going to be public safety bands in the USA and Canada.
It maybe just a coincidence that the GRE models have these bands blocked but I feel it is by design, but that is my opinion, and you know what they say about people with opinions

Moonbounce
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Old 02-22-2012, 3:46 PM
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Have you considered finding an inexpensive block converter such as the GRE superconverter on Fleabay. I believe Hamtronics,Ramsay,JIL, and other companies made similar converters years ago, so there should be some around to be found used. I have two of the superconverters that I've picked up under $15. They're often found "not working" for a song. Only thing wrong with them is the xtal usually drifted a bit and there's a trimmer that can set it back spot on. You'll get uninterrupted coverage using your UHF 450 band on your scanner. They work very well
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Old 03-06-2012, 9:22 PM
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Quote:
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ScannerWayne

I am talking about the 758 to 825 mhz band, the cell band was from 825 to 850 and 870 to 890 approx.
Lol... I knew I should have looked at a freq chart. Sorry about that...

Wayne...
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