Police Encryption

suleja · #1 (**permalink**) 10-10-2012, 11:15 PM

Do you guys think that in a few years all police agencies will start using encryption? I just don't want this great hobby to die because of it. It seems like it's already dying. I don't know that many young people that own a scanner. A lot of them think I'm a loser for having one and enjoying listening to it.

N8IAA · #2 (**permalink**) 10-11-2012, 2:21 PM

Being that none of us is a mindreader

It's hard to say what's going to happen in the next few years, other than will new scanners be able to monitor the newest digital formats. I use two of my scanners for all local stuff. The rest sit silent. I am more active on D-Star with my ham radio. The scanning hobby has changed a lot since I got into it over 40 years ago.
HTH,
Larry

gewecke · #3 (**permalink**) 10-11-2012, 2:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suleja

Do you guys think that in a few years all police agencies will start using encryption? I just don't want this great hobby to die because of it. It seems like it's already dying. I don't know that many young people that own a scanner. A lot of them think I'm a loser for having one and enjoying listening to it.

Staying aware of what's going on around you by any means available, including radio does NOT make you a loser ... but a winner!

You have the upper hand because you're aware and "they" are not.

73,
n9zas

rdale · #4 (**permalink**) 10-11-2012, 2:48 PM

The easy answer is -- no.

quarterwave · #5 (**permalink**) 10-11-2012, 3:16 PM

I second the no, but my state has a really big and really fancy digital trunking system they do "need" but also like to spend lots of money on. Long story short....the only agency on it that uses encryption regularly is Forestry....because, you know the Squirrells and Rabbits cannot have THEIR social security numbers going out over the air, but the Patrol can give out us humans SSN's in the clear..... LOL.

sragen · #6 (**permalink**) 10-11-2012, 6:16 PM

IMO, while encryption is necessary for some operations/investigations, it is the antithesis of interoperability. I believe most agencies, if they use this as SOP for routine work, understand it affects officer safety et al. But I could be naive.

brownlab · #7 (**permalink**) 10-11-2012, 7:58 PM

Well on the subject of encryption, many law enforcement agencies do not have any problem with citizens monitoring their departments and I would also say that the majority have no immediate plans to encrypt. A bigger problem may be the adoption of systems such as Open Sky and Motorola TDMA Phase 2 that no scanner on the market can decode. However at this time there are not a lot of these systems in operation. The biggest problem I see is as more trunked radio systems moving to digital and one will have to upgrade their scanner accordingly and a digital scanner be it a Uniden or GRE runs around $450. The Radio Shack PRO serials is a little cheaper and one can usually find one in the mid $300 range. However all of that said……….. there appears to be very few trunked radio systems currently used by Police or Fire departments in Western New York. Unless I am looking at the RR Data base incorrectly, everything seems to broadcast on VHF frequencies in which case you can monitor Police and Fire on a scanner from Radio Shack for less than $200. Maybe even cheaper than that.

skidplate · #8 (**permalink**) 10-11-2012, 10:45 PM

ALL good things must come to an end

gewecke · #9 (**permalink**) 10-12-2012, 12:08 AM

We can only hope that the agencies around us lack the needed funds to upgrade, and the hoodrats in our immediate midst don't advertise their abilities to listen from their brainphones or those funds may appear out of nowhere!

73,
n9zas

~~kb2vxa~~ · #10 (**permalink**) 10-12-2012, 9:18 AM

No sragen you're not naive, Asbury Park is. In times past PD, FD and EMS had full interoperability simply by switching channels. Since the PD went fully encrypted they now have to play Chinese Telephone (you know how the game is played, ha ha) through their respective dispatchers. Sure the bad guys are locked out for officer safety but what about PUBLIC safety? Makes the old LAPD slogan "to protect and serve" a sick joke to everyone but the salesmen preying on city administration ignorance, the dirtiest low down trick there ever was to sell product.

Reminds me of a scanner funny I heard a couple of years ago when the county narcotics unit was working a drug hot spot in a nearby town.
Unit 1: Are you in communication with (city)?
Unit 2: No, these guys have scanners.

Rant mode off, we now return you to the regularly scheduled discussion already in progress.

gunmasternd · #11 (**permalink**) 10-12-2012, 10:39 AM

everytime i see a small a s s town in ND upgrade to encrytion i wonder why they barely have 10k-40k people in their citys. things are just screwy here. i guess its easy to upgrade acouple of radios then a few hundred vs fargo,nd/mhd,mn.

I just hope it stays away from Fargo

cops here have it? and use it once inawhile. Hopefully it doesnt go fulltime. im debating on another scanner i just hate to give up this hobby.

suleja · #12 (**permalink**) 10-12-2012, 1:35 PM

I believe that the Lockport, NY city police has it but only uses it sometimes. It's a pretty small department. That's why I was wondering if bigger departments would start using it eventually.

vans113 · #13 (**permalink**) 10-12-2012, 6:44 PM

i hope not it seems like alot of places are going to digtial modulation like my local pd uses provoice, etc but some places do use it.but I'm a young guy who has been into scanning for a few months and i love it! btw im 19 =P everybody my ages thinks im crazy also mainly its fine their lose.

suleja · #14 (**permalink**) 10-12-2012, 8:35 PM

I don't care if they go digital. I'll buy a digital scanner... I just don't want departments to start encrypting.

TechnoDave · #15 (**permalink**) 10-14-2012, 8:27 AM

From my understanding, encryption is a very expensive addition to a radio system. Perhaps that is why, for the most part, it is smaller agencies that have gone encrypted since they only have one or two channels. Large agencies cant (or wont) pay for all their channels to be encrypted. JMHO

WZ1 · #16 (**permalink**) 10-14-2012, 9:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suleja

I believe that the Lockport, NY city police has it but only uses it sometimes. It's a pretty small department. That's why I was wondering if bigger departments would start using it eventually.

Even if Lockport Police were to encrypt would they not still be monitorable by NCSO frequency? (154.7550) - I listen to both Lockport and NCSO often and they often respond on the same calls. I hope the new Niagara system will not be encrypted and have the same great coverage that I get now.. I can hear Niagara County Sheriff and Lockport PD at a pull S9+ 10.. from East of Toronto.

WZ1 · #17 (**permalink**) 10-14-2012, 9:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suleja

Do you guys think that in a few years all police agencies will start using encryption? I just don't want this great hobby to die because of it. It seems like it's already dying. I don't know that many young people that own a scanner. A lot of them think I'm a loser for having one and enjoying listening to it.

Encryption seems to be the current trend in Canada.. it sucks! Lucky for me Toronto police are still analog and are a MAJOR police force.. almost as big as the National Canadian force (RCMP).. so switching is really expensive... and has delayed a lot.. the same cannot be said for the suburban departments around Toronto.. they are all going encrypted... even fire in Durham region.. Pathetic.

gr8rcall · #18 (**permalink**) 10-14-2012, 9:19 AM

About the only common things that can stop us from listening now would be:
Provoice (Which can be monitored thought a tap)
Encryption
Opensky

P25 Phase II is now monitorable using the PSR-800

So, hopefully, departments don't start encrypting or using Opensky...

reconrider8 · #19 (**permalink**) 10-14-2012, 11:58 AM

i still wonder if in the near future someone will crack the encryption gig and it be in the format in which we can update the firmwire and then can listen into the enc chitchat about where to eat and what not... not saying someone like gre or uniden but like a computer coder can write code that would make it able to do this but in a simple form where no real person would know that we have it done?

gr8rcall · #20 (**permalink**) 10-14-2012, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reconrider8

i still wonder if in the near future someone will crack the encryption gig and it be in the format in which we can update the firmwire and then can listen into the enc chitchat about where to eat and what not... not saying someone like gre or uniden but like a computer coder can write code that would make it able to do this but in a simple form where no real person would know that we have it done?

The reason no one has come up with a way to do that. IS ITS AGAINST FEDERAL LAW!!!
You could get in serious trouble doing that...