Uniden Trunking VS Whistler Trunking

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Jake68111

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Thought I'd post this here instead of the Whistler or the Uniden forums for impartiality.
If it is ill posted, I apologize.

With Uniden and Whistler, both, having new scanners being released in the near future, I have seen posts that say Unidens and Whistlers are different in how they trunk, specifically DMR and NXDN.

What is this "difference" and what are the pros and cons of the differences?

From what I gather, it seems to me that one "correctly" trunks and the other "faux" trunks? Is this a correct or fair way of looking at it?

Sorry, I just don't understand and any information would probably help me make an informed decision down the road.

Thanks in advance.
 
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jonwienke

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Uniden units are programmed with the ability to listen to the control channel, and follow a conversation on a busy system even if it switches to a different voice channel every transmission.

Whistler units just scan voice channels, so if the system is busy with multiple simultaneous conversations, you get random snippets of each conversation instead of a coherent conversation.
 

jackj

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Trunking?

Uniden units are programmed with the ability to listen to the control channel, and follow a conversation on a busy system even if it switches to a different voice channel every transmission.

Whistler units just scan voice channels, so if the system is busy with multiple simultaneous conversations, you get random snippets of each conversation instead of a coherent conversation.

According to the above Whistler scanners don't trunk, they just scan. That means that they are no different from any digital capable scanner while Uniden scanners do trunk.

Somehow or other, I don't think jonwienke's statement is true.
 

jonwienke

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Doesn't matter what you think, that is the difference between the way Whistler and Uniden handle trunked systems, and it's also why Uniden charges for NXDN and DMR and Whistler doesn't. There are patent royalties that have to be paid if you use trunk tracking. Whistler avoids them by not trunk tracking, and Uniden trunk tracks, but charges the required fees to do so.

There are numerous complaints about this in the Whistler forums from people listening to busy systems hearing a hodgepodge of different conversations rather than being able to listen to a particular conversation of interest.

And there is also whining in the Uniden forums about the cost of the DMR and NXDN upgrades.
 

kruser

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According to the above Whistler scanners don't trunk, they just scan. That means that they are no different from any digital capable scanner while Uniden scanners do trunk.

Somehow or other, I don't think jonwienke's statement is true.

Jon's statement is true with the exception of P25. Whistlers models do have the same ability to trunk track P25 (and older formats) with just the control channel as do Uniden's models.
Whistler falls short on the other digital formats however and scan the voice channels in a conventional manner. They cannot follow a talkgroup on a busy system other than P25.
 

buddrousa

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According to the above Whistler scanners don't trunk, they just scan. That means that they are no different from any digital capable scanner while Uniden scanners do trunk.

Somehow or other, I don't think jonwienke's statement is true.

This has been stated by GRE/WHISTLER REPS in the past. This is why the DMR/NXDN is free they are not using Control Channel Data. P25 Trunking uses the Control Channel Data but not DMR/NXDN.
 

troymail

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According to the above Whistler scanners don't trunk, they just scan. That means that they are no different from any digital capable scanner while Uniden scanners do trunk.
I believe it has been determined that Whistler does not use the control channel for scanning DMR and NXDN. However, this is not the case for other system types like Motorola and P25.
Somehow or other, I don't think jonwienke's statement is true.
You are correct.

He said:
Whistler units just scan voice channels, so if the system is busy with multiple simultaneous conversations, you get random snippets of each conversation instead of a coherent conversation.
(I only know/see that comment because someone quoted him).

As in the case many times, he doesn't know what he is talking about (I'm guessing he doesn't even own a Whistler).


While it is true that ALL scanners - even Uniden's - can tend to only hear random snippets of conversations because they are SCANNERS. I can follow NXDN and DMR conversations on my Whistlers just fine.

FWIW - I'm watching a NXDN trunk system here with my TRX-1 and 436 side by side and the 436 STILL misses transmissions that the TRX is picking up.

Using Paul's famous line - YMMV.
 
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buddrousa

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Troy my 6 x36's run circles around my TRX-1 and TRX-2 on the Tennessee Homeland Security District 7
My NEW FIRMWARE TRX's only received 25% of the traffic compared to the 90% of my x36's compared to my NX5300 100%
This was mobile same antenna 5 hours of driving between the sites.
 

kruser

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Wrong troymail.

The Whistler will only scan an active talkgroup on a trunked NXDN or DMR type system if it is the ONLY active talkgroup in use.
As the frequency changes, the Whistler will simply lock on and stop on the next active frequency you programmed in. It will not listen to the CC and see where the TG you were monitoring has moved to.
The result is the next active frequency may be a different TG that came on the air. That is what you will hear.
 

troymail

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Wrong troymail.

The Whistler will only scan an active talkgroup on a trunked NXDN or DMR type system if it is the ONLY active talkgroup in use.
As the frequency changes, the Whistler will simply lock on and stop on the next active frequency you programmed in. It will not listen to the CC and see where the TG you were monitoring has moved to.
The result is the next active frequency may be a different TG that came on the air. That is what you will hear.

Wrong -

I recently traveled to Columbus County NC to monitor their public safety system with both radios side-by-side.... Programmed as trunked systems, both radios received the system more or less equally....

From your description, I can only assume you are talking about programming NXDN or DMR system/frequencies as conventional channels.... which, by the way, the Whistler will also do with ease.. unlike the Uniden (which will "hang" on data and control channels if programmed that way).
 

kruser

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Wrong -

From your description, I can only assume you are talking about programming NXDN or DMR system/frequencies as conventional channels....

No, both Whistlers and Unidens are programmed as Trunked systems for the NXDN systems I've been monitoring.

As a talkgroup in use rotates through the sites frequencies, the Uniden follows it correctly. The Whistler (TRX-2) will scan the frequencies and stop on the same talkgroup unless another talkgroup goes active. If the new talkgroup is using the next frequency in the list of frequencies, the TRX-2 will stop on that instead of following the TG I was monitoring.

That's what I see.

If there is only one talkgroup active on a trunked NXDN system, it will follow it just fine.

Yes, I do also program these NXDN systems as conventional channels but only when I'm figuring out a new system. Once figured out, I only monitor these systems after I've set them up as a trunked system in the TRX-2.
 

troymail

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As a talkgroup in use rotates through the sites frequencies, the Uniden follows it correctly. The Whistler (TRX-2) will scan the frequencies and stop on the same talkgroup unless another talkgroup goes active. If the new talkgroup is using the next frequency in the list of frequencies, the TRX-2 will stop on that instead of following the TG I was monitoring.
On any scanner, if you are monitoring multiple talkgroups on a/any system (i.e. using your scanner as a scanner), there will always be the possibility/likelihood that following a transmission on one talkgroup, you may hear activity on a different talkgroup.... that is just the nature of scanning vs. holding on a talkgroup. That is why we have options like pause/hold and delay.....
 

jonwienke

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On any scanner, if you are monitoring multiple talkgroups on a/any system (i.e. using your scanner as a scanner), there will always be the possibility/likelihood that following a transmission on one talkgroup, you may hear activity on a different talkgroup.... that is just the nature of scanning vs. holding on a talkgroup. That is why we have options like pause/hold and delay.....

Only if the time interval between transmissions is greater than the Delay setting, and the scanner resumes scanning. As long as reply transmissions are received within the Delay interval, Uniden scanners will follow the conversation on a talkgroup, even if it changes frequency with each transmission. Not so with Whistler units on busy DMR and NXDN systems.
 

kruser

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On any scanner, if you are monitoring multiple talkgroups on a/any system (i.e. using your scanner as a scanner), there will always be the possibility/likelihood that following a transmission on one talkgroup, you may hear activity on a different talkgroup.... that is just the nature of scanning vs. holding on a talkgroup. That is why we have options like pause/hold and delay.....

Your experience may be different than those in several forums than.
I'm very aware of the possibilities or likelihood of a scanner type radio moving on if a hold is released or a delay times out etc.
I'm just saying what I observe along with many others here.

I've been very active in radio (plus this hobby) for about 45 years now.

I'm not arguing, just stating what I observe which seems to correspond with the majority here from what I've read since Whistler delved into DMR and NXDN.
I can't really speak honestly for models other than the TRX-2 for DMR. I own them (several GRE branded and Whistler branded) but never spent any time with them for anything but P25 or conventional.
 

troymail

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Your experience may be different than those in several forums than.
Yup - everyone's experiences will be different - systems are different, environments are different.... there are no absolutes and anyone making such claims are just misleading people. Again, Paul's long ago x36 comment applies - YMMV... I'm sure these 4 letters will apply to even new radios coming down the line....
 

UPMan

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  • On a slow system, non-cch scanning will work fine.
  • On a busy system, non-cch scanning will have problems. The severity of the problems will depend on many factors (YMMV).
  • Regardless of which method is used, there are patent royalties owed to Motorola for DMR. Not trunk tracking does not avoid all the IP.
 

INDY72

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Motorola only get patent pay for the IP of MotoTRBO products. You basically pay them to trunk on Connect Plus, Capacity Plus, and Capacity Max TRS, and to use the Copyrighted names associated therewith. They do NOT own sole IP over the DMR universe. That goes to DVSI, the European folks, etc... If you had to pay VENDORS for all the DMR facets... Then you pay Hytera, Motorola, RCA, Harris/Tait and on and on ... By the time you paid suck up to everyone the scanner would cost about 2 or 3 grand. Same for NXDN... You pay a kiss up fee to EFJ/Kenwood and iCOM for doing NexEDGE and iDAS and the Copyrighted names thereof.... Ahh the joys of legal.... For that matter, Motorola and EFJ/Kenwood get money on the suck up fees for the SmartNet/SmartZone names since Motorola started it, and now EFJ/Kenwood own it. Not sure if fees still go out for the LTR copyrights and IP as that would mean EFJ/Kenwood, Motorola, and almost everyone else again.... It would make the vendors ALL orgasmic if they could ALL legally hit you for every detail and thus make it too expensive to produce much less sell a scanner, after all, its in the Industry best interest to KILL all scanners forever.
 
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UPMan

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DMR licensing is required even if you are not doing MotoTRBO.



7,203,207 deals with differentiating voice packets from data packets on a TDMA channel, and with setting particular modes based on the data packets.


8,306,071 also deals with setting modes based on sync patterns on TDMA transmissions.


All the patents are listed at DMR Essential Properties


Motorola DMR licensing is required for Tier 1, 2, or 3.
 
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