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General Scanning Discussion For general questions not specific to a model of scanner or general discussion of use of a scanner. Location specific posts should be directed to the regional forums listed below.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007, 9:50 AM
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Talking OpenSky Scanners

Will there ever be scanners that can receive OpenSky systems? If it isn't illegal to pick them up (which it isn't) than what could be the problem in creating a scanner which can receive that system. With today's technology, it should be no big problem, right?
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:05 AM
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The company which developed OpenSky must be willing to license the technology to a scanner company so that they can make an OpenSky compatible scanner otherwise it will never happen.
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:09 AM
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Shouldn't be too hard. All you have to do is reverse engineer the OpenSky protocols (which are NOT public information unlike APCO-25) and then find a way to eliminate all the lawyers before you go to market with it!

I heard rumor that MA/COM was selling receive only radios for OpenSky systems. If you want to monitor opensky, why not look into that? Unlike an OpenSky scanner, the possibility actually exists that you might be able to acquire and program such a receiver. Either that or just wait for the system to eventually bog down and crash enough times that the agency finally throws it in the trash and gets a P25 system that CAN be monitored - THAT has happened a few times too.

-AZ
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:48 AM
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That is a good question. But there is as AZscanner says more to it than just making a scanner. They would have to get the protocol and pay $$$ for licensing fees that is if MA/COMM would sell it. Its not like APCO-25 where manufacturers make radios that work within APCO-25 standards. Its all proprietary and proprietary is only for the manufacturers gain and keeps customers locked in since they can't go and buy a Kenwood Opensky radio or Motorola Opensky radio since MA/COMM is the only one who owns the rights and makes the equipment.

I also recall them supposedly making a receive radio for people who want to monitor such as off duty firefigthers/EMS who don't are not provided with a radio etc.
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Old 08-13-2007, 11:29 AM
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you better have a budget of several milliion dollars for attorney fees, court costs and likely civil judgements if you offer one for sale. Macom is protecting billions of dollars of value and a few million to fight you is nothing to them. No scanners is a selling point for them.
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Old 08-13-2007, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScanner
. . . . . just wait for the system to eventually bog down and crash enough times that the agency finally throws it in the trash and gets a P25 system . . . - THAT has happened a few times too.
Examples please?
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Old 08-13-2007, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n4voxgill
you better have a budget of several milliion dollars for attorney fees, court costs and likely civil judgements if you offer one for sale. Macom is protecting billions of dollars of value and a few million to fight you is nothing to them. No scanners is a selling point for them.
Win or lose, you should also look into the Witness Protection Program because you will need a new identity unless you have diplomatic immunity.
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Old 08-13-2007, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N_Jay
Examples please?
Sure, here's one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://mrtmag.com/mag/radio_news_packets/
The Western Australian Police Services, Perth, will abandon its under-construction digital radio system and continue to use its analog system in the face of what a West Australian news story described as “insurmountable problems trying to make the network communicate with other high-tech components built as part of the police service communications overhaul.” The Printrak Division of Motorola has a separate $22 million contract with WAPS for CAD construction and maintenance.
Rumor has it that Cumberland PA, Milwaukee, FDNY and Philadelphia are ready to drop MA/COM as well (but that's just a rumor of course )

-AZ
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Old 08-13-2007, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScanner
Sure, here's one:



Rumor has it that Cumberland PA, Milwaukee, FDNY and Philadelphia are ready to drop MA/COM as well (but that's just a rumor of course )

-AZ
I don't think your "example" is OpenSky going to P25.

Then rest are just rumors.

If it has happened "a few times" you should be able to find one definitive example.
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Old 08-13-2007, 2:59 PM
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God love you NJay, you're right I should be able to shouldn't I? Truth is I tried to find a few but only found that one. F'in sue me. :rolleyes:
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Old 08-13-2007, 5:10 PM
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OpenSky>P25 replacement, example #2

http://www.radioreference.com/forums...ad.php?t=77443

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Old 08-13-2007, 5:58 PM
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Thanks trooperdude, I knew I wasn't totally crazy. Just 1/2 crazy....
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Old 08-13-2007, 8:46 PM
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Well, to be fair, that's military. They're under ORDERS to use P25 only, AFAIK. Someone goofed, got a wrong system, and now they have to replace it.
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Old 08-13-2007, 9:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScanner
God love you NJay, you're right I should be able to shouldn't I? Truth is I tried to find a few but only found that one. F'in sue me. :rolleyes:
Maybe your impression was wrong, but I will let you determine that.
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Old 08-13-2007, 9:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trooperdude
OpenSky>P25 replacement, example #2

http://www.radioreference.com/forums...ad.php?t=77443

Seems like they are updating EDACS to P25 like most military installations.
No indication that the old system was not working, and it was NOT OpenSky.

More bad references!
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Old 08-13-2007, 9:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkipSanders
Well, to be fair, that's military. They're under ORDERS to use P25 only, AFAIK. Someone goofed, got a wrong system, and now they have to replace it.
Or it was installed before P25 was mandated (or readily available).
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Old 08-13-2007, 9:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScanner
Thanks trooperdude, I knew I wasn't totally crazy. Just 1/2 crazy....
Seems like you are grasping at straws instead of just admitting you were wrong.
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Old 08-14-2007, 5:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScanner
Sure, here's one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://mrtmag.com/mag/radio_news_packets/
The Western Australian Police Services, Perth, will abandon its under-construction digital radio system and continue to use its analog system in the face of what a West Australian news story described as “insurmountable problems trying to make the network communicate with other high-tech components built as part of the police service communications overhaul.” The Printrak Division of Motorola has a separate $22 million contract with WAPS for CAD construction and maintenance.
-AZ
Really!! That was a TETRA system, which does not use OpenSky.
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Old 08-15-2007, 7:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScanner
Rumor has it that Cumberland PA, Milwaukee, FDNY and Philadelphia are ready to drop MA/COM as well (but that's just a rumor of course )
The Fire Department of New York can not "drop" M/A-COM because they are not using any of their products, be it conventional, EDACS, or OpenSky, to begin with. The FDNY is a Motorola vendee.

There seems to be a lot of confusion over the differences between APCO P25 digital, EDACS, and OpenSky.

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Last edited by SCANdal; 08-15-2007 at 7:18 AM..
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Old 08-15-2007, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScanner
Sure, here's one:
Rumor has it that Cumberland PA, Milwaukee, FDNY and Philadelphia are ready to drop MA/COM as well (but that's just a rumor of course )

-AZ
Great rumor, only Philadelphia uses Motorola P25 trunking and FDNY uses Motorola conventional UHF and VHF radios. Their VHF stuff is all analog and at best the UHF is mixed as they use the UHF radios for Interop with EMS and PD. FDNY had a lot of problems with their digital UHF radios before Sept 11 and were replacing equipment even then. I'm sure a NYC area member knows the details better than I do.

Pro Voice isn't P25 and it isn't Open Sky either. It's digital EDACS, out there all by itself. So, if Fort Riley is replacing it, it's not because of problems with Open Sky.

Granted a measurable number of EDACS systems have had problems. Look at Honolulu for example. They had and might still have a lot of trouble.

OTOH, the Florida HP is replacing their Motorola system with an EDACS digital trunk.

Even if you're joking, you don't help either your argument or your status as a serious hobbyist by spreading bad information.
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