Advice about Motorola speakers

[LFN]

I´m planning buying a Motorola non-amplified speaker to my scanner in my car.
On Motorolas site there are several models to choose from: http://www.motorola.com/governmenta...npath=id_803i/id_27i/id_38i/id_1387i/id_1389i

Sadly I can´t find any technical specs on Motorolas site about that speakers.
Can someone help me with picking the best model to me, it should be 8 ohm:s speakers, non amplified, and easy to modify with a 3.5mm plug. And it should not be to big size.
The RSN4001A and the HSN4018B looks nice, are they any good? Are there any better models? I prefer buing a new and not used speaker.

(sorry for my bad English)
/Linus

 

[E-Man]

I am using 5 HSN4030A and have good results. I do not know the specs on them. They do seem to amplify the hum in my Pro-2096.

 

[CCHLLM]

Most are 8 ohm but some few are 4 ohm, depending on radio models they're matched to. Most of the square, typically seen Motorola 5 and 6 watt speakers are 8 ohm, and are different only in the connector on the cable and power handling capability. As far as a scanner is concerned, power handling capability won't matter, and the 4 ohm models will be a bit louder in comparison, but not significantly so unless there are other factors at work.

The small rectangular 7.5 watt models are what I use, sound great, and fit where the larger square models won't fit. In fact, I didn't use the mounting brackets, I used Scotch HD double-sided tape to mount them, and the tape mounting survived a very hot summer. The newer unamped speakers for the XTL series are fine also, but are similar to the older square designs in size.

Amplified speakers and waterproof/water-resistant speakers will be pricier and aren't worth the extra expense unless you find a deal somewhere. The amplified units require + and - 12V, and depending on model, may not be compatible with scanner audio because they're part of the radio's audio circuit and are looking for pre-amp level audio at mW levels and different impedances, not your radio's processed audio at 1 to 2 W and 4-8 ohm impedance.

 

[LFN]

The small rectangular 7.5 watt models are what I use, sound great, and fit where the larger square models won't fit. In fact, I didn't use the mounting brackets, I used Scotch HD double-sided tape to mount them, and the tape mounting survived a very hot summer. The newer unamped speakers for the XTL series are fine also, but are similar to the older square designs in size.

Okay, you mean the "FSN5510A" speaker then? Do you get that "Motorola sound" with a little dark sound in that small speaker?
Is the "HSN4018B" one of those new speakers to the XTL series?

 

[RolnCode3]

I have 2 HSN4018A that I soldered 3.5mm plugs onto. Work awesome, no problems.

I think the HSN4018B is just an updated version of what I have. Cut that plug off (or make the other end of it) and it'll most likely work beautifully.

Just verified, came in at 7.9ohms.

Why buy from /\/\ directly? Ebay should have lots of these for decent prices. (just checked, there's 6 on Ebay right now - although they're in the US...dunno about oversees).

 

[CCHLLM]

I don't have any experience with the speakers for the XTL series on anything but XTLs, so I can't say what their audio quality on a scanner may be. HSN8145A or B (Maxtrac, GM300 etc) is what I have, and yes, they do have that Motorola sound. How a speaker "sounds" depends a great deal on the quality of the audio from your source, where and how you have the speaker mounted, what's around it, and what may be in the direct audio path to your ear.

The smaller rectangular units in question have smaller speaker surface area, and the surface of the cone has to be more flexible (softer) to be able to accommodate the rectangular shape and still flex without much distortion. They also are more susceptible to the influences of mounting positions and whatever surfaces are near them. The larger standard size square units have more speaker surface area (move more air) and harder cones (attenuate low register sounds), so they tend to be sharper and have more punch in high noise environments, as well as being somewhat less influenced by mounting and nearby surfaces.

 

[kb2vxa]

Hi LFN and all,

I've been using the 4" mobile speakers for years with great results at home and in the car. I even have an old metal one that sounds just a wee bit better than the plastic. You can always cut off the plug and replace it with whatever you like, the plain old non-amplified ones come with ordinary appliance zip cord.

"4 ohm models will be a bit louder in comparison, but not significantly so unless there are other factors at work."

That's because transistors are current operated devices, the lower the load impedance the more they draw from the power supply. (They ignore a no load condition but never short the speaker output or the audio output transistor could go bye bye.) Actually the 4 ohm speaker isn't any louder per se, it only gives more volume at a lower control setting because it draws more power.

I suggest you guys learn a little basic electrical theory beginning with Ohm's Law. (;->)

Now somebody mentioned "the hum" which I take to mean he's hearing the CTCSS (PL) tone. Few if any scanners employ high pass filters in the audio chain to remove the tone so if you're using a speaker with any bass response at all you'll hear a hum in the background. That makes computer and small stereo speakers a poor choice for use with a scanner. Frankly those crappy Rat Shack and similar speakers fall into the same category. The Moto speakers are specifically tailored for the voice range so you'll not likely hear the hum nor will it sound tinny. IMO when it comes to listening to my scanner and ham rigs they're the best thing besides a good pair of communications headphones for digging signals out of the noise.

 

[flecom]

"4 ohm models will be a bit louder in comparison, but not significantly so unless there are other factors at work."

That's because transistors are current operated devices, the lower the load impedance the more they draw from the power supply. (They ignore a no load condition but never short the speaker output or the audio output transistor could go bye bye.) Actually the 4 ohm speaker isn't any louder per se, it only gives more volume at a lower control setting because it draws more power.

well most scanners ive seen are using an opamp or integrated audio amp in their output, but the same idea still applies... it will "seem" lounder becuase the speaker will dissapate more current

 

[kb2vxa]

Hi again,

Frank, speakers don't dissipate current, they convert W to SPL because they're transducers, not dummy loads. Maybe that's why Bob Heil (Heil Sound) calls his speakers "air motion transformers".

Just a little politically correct techie humor there with probable intent to confuse the Speaker of the House.

 

[flecom]

ok well, i know it wasnt exact, but a "good enough for discussion" explination.. i assure you i know a few things about magnetic and electrostatic transducers

 

[CCHLLM]

Learn a little about theory? I woulda thought 40+ years in the radio comm business at the technical and engineering level woulda prepared me. Once again, we get into the ubiquitous technical quagmire to answer a simple question, and yeah, I'm as guilty or more guilty than anyone here.

Anyway, kb2vxa is right on regarding the ultimate effects of higher impedances, and about the quality of sounds from speakers designed for communications instead of high fidelity applications. The HSN8145 sized units aren't going to be as loud as the larger units because the speaker is smaller and doesn't move as much air, but that doesn't seem to hurt on my ham radios in my F350 Diesel, and there are more places they will fit, but your mileage may vary. I also have them on my XTL5000, Astro Spectra, and low band MaraTrac because of that space requirement thing that comes up when six two way radios are mounted in one truck. Oh, and yes, the FSN5510 and RSN4001 speakers are for the newer series of radios, but should work the same as any of the others in other applications.

In spite of a direct connection to MotherMoto, I say you don't need to pay the ticket price for new stuff at a dealer. As mentioned, there are too many sources for used equipment out there, especially with all the older equipment rapidly being replaced, and the selection available from used equipment dealers is likely to be better because a Moto dealer isn't going to stock speakers for many applications. In fact, I got all but one of mine from one of the surplus/used equipment dealers in Radio Resource Magazine. I've also found them many times at hamfests.

 

[kb2vxa]

Just to have a little fun here;

"Anyway, kb2vxa is right on regarding the ultimate effects of higher impedances, and about the quality of sounds from speakers designed for communications instead of high fidelity applications. ... The HSN8145 sized units aren't going to be as loud as the larger units because the speaker is smaller and doesn't move as much air, but that doesn't seem to hurt on my ham radios..."

What about an Altec-Lansing three way tower with a 15" woofer on an NC-303? It sure sounded great listening to the yay-emmers on 3885. The 8" studio monitor on an R-390... eeeh, not as good.

"I also have them on my XTL5000, Astro Spectra, and low band MaraTrac because of that space requirement thing that comes up when six two way radios are mounted in one truck."

One of those Ham Sexy whackermobiles?

"In spite of a direct connection to MotherMoto, I say you don't need to pay the ticket price for new stuff at a dealer."

All bow and pay homage to Mother, the cheap ho. You can probably get the best price from a two way repair shop, one of the techs would probably dig a few out of the junk box and toss them yo way fo fee bro! "I've also found them many times at hamfests." Me too homes, usually just a couple (2) of bucks.

Now wasn't Mr. Moto a Chinese detective played by Peter Lorre? Come number one son, we have a hamfester to go to.

 

[trooperdude]

I have 2 HSN4018A that I soldered 3.5mm plugs onto. Work awesome, no problems.

Why buy from /\/\ directly? Ebay should have lots of these for decent prices. (just checked, there's 6 on Ebay right now - although they're in the US...dunno about oversees).

I agreee.

Awesome speakers.

I even have some of the older metal ones I use in the shack.

I wouldn't pay retail for them however.

I bought an entire lot of brand new ones during the last recession in 2002, and I still have left-overs I use for fire truck installs.

I think I paid about $0.25 on the dollar with shipping.

 

[LFN]

Can´t find any Motorola speakers on ebay who ships to Europe. And impossible to find here in Sweden. Any ideas of an internetbased company who ships to Europe?

 

[E-Man]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Motorola-Mobile...ryZ66977QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Motorola-Mobile...ryZ66977QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Motorola-Spectr...ryZ66975QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

ships worldwide

 

[CCHLLM]

The Altec-Lansing setup would make the subtones much clearer in spite of the filtering, and you could really dance to those sexy DPL rhythms.

My "whackermobile" is a communications service truck, so I make no apologies for the equipment within. Besides, when the fecal matter encounters the non-ducted air handling unit, it always seems to be my truck that the suddenly commless seek out. Happened earlier in the day in very, very eastern NC during operations in foul weather conditions. Ah-h-h.....comm flexibility........That forgotten-at-budget-time but oh-so-suddenly-important commodity during stressful situations. "Patch me through to McGarrett.........and get me some Chinese take-out."

Shoulda been there when one of the hurricane chaser dudes with a REAL whackermobile buried his ride in the very spot where the sea was invading Highway 12. Can't figure out why he thought it would be cool to drive into a newly created storm swash, but whatever.....

Anyway, before we get detention and a letter sent home for drifting off-topic, any of the Moto speakers will be louder for a given volume setting than the internal speaker in a scanner, and the audio will be much more readable. I'd say that perfectly justifies the trouble of finding one for your scanner. I just don't see the need for paying MotherMoto's new price for what amounts to a scanner accessory unless I just had to.

 

[LFN]

Where is the best place in the car to place the speaker? Is it very important that the speaker is angled directly at you when sitting in the car? Or is the Motorola speakers so powerful that you can mount them under the dashboard and not exactly directed to you?
I´m thinking about putting the speaker at the top of the windscreen behind the mirror with self adhesive tape. Is that a good idea?

 

[CCHLLM]

Mounting it behind the mirror is probably not a good idea for several reasons, the least of which is safety. The speaker's "power" comes from the audio output capability of the radio, not the speaker itself. The scanner probably has about 1 watt or so of audio output, so the Moto speaker will produce more readable audio than a cheap speaker at the same given power level, and will probably be louder due to its design. Anything in the direct audio path will attenuate the volume and affect the "sound" of the speaker.

Where you can mount the speaker volumewise and claritywise will depend a lot on how much power the radio's audio section can produce. As with most devices, the optimum output occurs between 20% and 80% of the maximum volume setting. If you have to turn the volume control past the 80% level, the radio doesn't usually get louder, it just increases the audio distortion factor. You can set the volume to about 50% and experiment with various locations inside the vehicle until you come up with something that works as desired. As long as you mount the speakers so that the face of the speaker is generally facing toward you and there's little to nothing in the path, the volume shouldn't be a problem unless the vehicle is noisy. If the radio has plenty of audio power output, you'll find that you can mount the speaker in more covert or obstructed locations and still get fairly good volume and sound at reasonable volume settings.

 

[CCHLLM]

deleted. > duplicate post, for whatever cyber reason.

 

[RolnCode3]

Where is the best place in the car to place the speaker? Is it very important that the speaker is angled directly at you when sitting in the car? Or is the Motorola speakers so powerful that you can mount them under the dashboard and not exactly directed to you?
I´m thinking about putting the speaker at the top of the windscreen behind the mirror with self adhesive tape. Is that a good idea?

We have some mounted on the transmission hump facing away from the driver. Our Spectra's have to be turned up to 11 or 12 to be understood (and it's blasting the passenger at the same time).

We moved some of them to the roof just behind the front seats. Volume at 6 or 7 is perfectly audible. 8 or 9 is understood over a siren.

At least point it towards you. Closer the better.

Agreed on windshield being a bad place. Should the mounting fail who knows where it will go. Also, it could be illegal depending on where you live. Easiest way is to simply hook it up and see where it fits, listen to some transmissions and see what sounds good.