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General Scanning Discussion For general questions not specific to a model of scanner or general discussion of use of a scanner. Location specific posts should be directed to the regional forums listed below.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2008, 11:20 PM
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Default How to pick up scrambled freq?

I live in a small town around 25,000 people and the local police use a 10-79 (emergency use only) scrambler. They use it alot. Is there a scanner that will de-scramble this freq.?
hopefully not a super expencive one. It chapps my A.. that they use it all the time. and for a town my size it is a waste of tax payers money on these expencive radios. does this happen in your cities much?
thanks Gene
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:23 PM
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It's ILLEGAL to decode encryption without proper authorization. Sorry...you'll just have to live with it.
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyp7
Is there a scanner that will de-scramble this freq.?
No. Depending on the type, one might be able to listen to it, but if it's anything modern, forget about it.

What type of system are you listening to?
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:38 PM
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Im not sure. Its just a analog system kinda old. I was told that their radios wouldnt completely un scramble the transmissions about 85%. When the give the code 10-79 all we hear is pure static like turning the squelch down on an empty channel . We dont use digital or trunking around here. The Police chief is trying for newer updated radios but they run around 8 grand apiece. But thats up in the air for right now.
thanks for the responces
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:44 AM
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8k? WTF..

Anyways...Voice Inversion can be 'decoded' or whatever.....it's illegal but it's possible and not too hard.
What you're describing doesn't sound like Voice Inversion though.
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Old 02-27-2008, 1:08 AM
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"How to pick up scrambled freq?"

You don't. End of discussion.
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Old 02-27-2008, 4:39 AM
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If it was simple voice inversion, then it is EASY, but what you described as white noise (like squelch) cannot be decoded. It's more than likely DES or DES-XL if it's old.

It's only illegal if you live in the United States!
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Old 02-27-2008, 5:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rescue161
If it was simple voice inversion, then it is EASY, but what you described as white noise (like squelch) cannot be decoded. It's more than likely DES or DES-XL if it's old.

It's only illegal if you live in the United States!

Based up that, I'm going to throw in my two cents and says it's DES, I have "listened" to DES protected audio on a scanner and it sounds just like what was described above.
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Old 02-27-2008, 7:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyp7
When the give the code 10-79 all we hear is pure static like turning the squelch down on an empty channel
Based on what you have said here, you are out of luck. You can not decode it. It is also illegal to try.

You may hear from some (who wear tin foil hats) that eventually you will have the ability to decode it, or their third cousin twice removed on their great Aunt's side heard from someone at a truck stop say they could do it so it must be true, etc. I will save you the trouble. You can't decode it.

If, on the other hand, the 'encryption' is analog frequency inversion (sort of sounds like Donald Duck) then you have a chance of successfully de-crypting the signal. That won't make the process any more legal (it still isn't legal), but it is possible.
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Old 02-27-2008, 8:35 AM
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Ok thanks for the replys guys. I'm stuck with it o well. Belive it or not that is what the police chief requested from the city council. One radio was $5000 without scrambler One with was $8000 He said they needed the 8 grand ones and that they would be alot better.
WTF is what I said also
Thanks again for the responces
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Old 02-27-2008, 8:39 AM
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o and also the county next to us has the messed up duck one. Ours is just total white noise
thanks
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Old 02-27-2008, 8:54 AM
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It would be a lot easier to pick up scrambled eggs, and that'd be perfectly legal too.
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Old 02-27-2008, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scansomd
You may hear from some (who wear tin foil hats) that eventually you will have the ability to decode it, or their third cousin twice removed on their great Aunt's side heard from someone at a truck stop say they could do it so it must be true, etc. I will save you the trouble. You can't decode it.
I ran a thread a while back that proves this. I encrypted a message using DES and nobody could decode it. One guy came very close after about a year...
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Old 02-27-2008, 5:00 PM
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I can decode encryption.............But I bet no one will be able to figure out how........
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Old 02-27-2008, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rescue161
One guy came very close after about a year...
Ya but didn't he also have the key?
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Old 02-27-2008, 5:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfn002
It's ILLEGAL to decode encryption without proper authorization. Sorry...you'll just have to live with it.
Oh No! the scanner police are here!!!!!
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Old 02-27-2008, 5:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EFjohnsonVHF
I can decode encryption.............But I bet no one will be able to figure out how........
With a keyloader and the key?

If you did it any other way, you are a liar.
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Old 02-27-2008, 5:57 PM
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I got to talking with a couple of Officers from my local state park and they were talking about how great it was to have encryption. I ask them why and there answers where nobody knows when we are on duty and where we are at except the Dispatcher at the park office 8 to 4 or Columbus ODNR dispatcher. They cover a bunch of area, 10mi x 4mi of Lake and all the roads and parks that go with it. Most of the time they are a 1 man unit. I ask them if they were encrypted none of the local PDs or the Sheriffs office could copy their traffic either, which they agreed. Then I ask them what are you going to do when you are calling in a traffic stop and it goes south, none of the local units can copy where you are or who they are out with. Which could cause them a delay before backup arrives, when the local backup could be right there in a matter of minutes. Ever since that day I hear both officers call their traffic stops and what not thru the local dispatcher at the S.O. or PD. But they still use their encryption to call in the beginning and end of their shifts.........Hoser
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Old 02-27-2008, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JnglMassiv
Ya but didn't he also have the key?
He and everyone else had the key, the style of DES and the ID - And it's still not decoded to this day.
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Old 02-28-2008, 2:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rescue161
He and everyone else had the key, the style of DES and the ID - And it's still not decoded to this day.
That was a great thread BTW. If you were a real agency you'd likely be using your second or third set of different keys by now!

I predict the one time someone might actually get the audio decoded and tries to apply that key to another transmission by a different encrypted group they would be burned by the fact that each group could be using a different key.

When the "I can decode encryption" braggarts start coming out of the woods again are you going to give them another message to fail with?
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