UHF/GMRS Repeater Monitoring

[Twister_2]

I have been scanning for years and haven't paid too much attention to GMRS repeaters. However, I have found that there are some in my area on the mountain.

There is one repeater in my area that has an output of 462.700MHz which is channel 21 on a walkie talkie. I believe that the input is 467.700MHz. That frequency is not, however, on consumer walkie talkie GMRS/FRS radios, well at least not on my radios which can be found here: http://www.uniden.com/products/produ...ter=15%20Miles

So, does this mean that the repeater operators use a modified walkie talkie or do they use a commercial grade one that already has that frequency on it? Or, are they able to get in to the repeater using a frequency that is very close to it? FYI-> I already know that they have PL tones to get into it, but I believe that it is beside the point.

Thanks,
Mike

[Don_Burke]

Originally Posted by Twister_2

I have been scanning for years and haven't paid too much attention to GMRS repeaters. However, I have found that there are some in my area on the mountain.

There is one repeater in my area that has an output of 462.700MHz which is channel 21 on a walkie talkie. I believe that the input is 467.700MHz. That frequency is not, however, on consumer walkie talkie GMRS/FRS radios, well at least not on my radios which can be found here: http://www.uniden.com/products/produ...ter=15%20Miles

So, does this mean that the repeater operators use a modified walkie talkie or do they use a commercial grade one that already has that frequency on it? Or, are they able to get in to the repeater using a frequency that is very close to it? FYI-> I already know that they have PL tones to get into it, but I believe that it is beside the point.

Thanks,
Mike

They use various radios, mainly business type UHF radios.

The blister pack GMRS/FRS radios do not have the repeater inputs for good reasons.

If I were calling the shots the blister pack radios would not have the repeater outputs either and would have the seven FRS channels plus the seven shared with GMRS for a total of fourteen.

[chrismol1]

And you sorta need to be on the exact repeater input frequency and not "close" to it along with the CTCSS btw.

[btritch]

Where does one find out where to see if there are any GMRS/FRS towers/repeaters in your area? FCC?

[Twister_2]

That is what I thought about them using the business radios.

I also kind of knew that you have to be right on frequency...You can notice that on the scanner.

You could find your local repeaters at FCC's website www.fcc.gov YOU NEED THE WWW. IF YOU WANT IT TO WORK. http://www.g-m-r-s.org/inside/repeaters4gmrs.htm However, some of the repeaters are not at the databases, so you could monitor or call somebody locally and they will give you a number to call and find it.

[rescuecomm]

When the GMRS stuff was reorganized giving all licensees all channels to use, the repeater info left the FCC database. There are some groups that list GMRS repeaters on a voluntary basis. My group doesn't list any of our repeaters. Due to the cost of the GMRS licenses, most of the people originally in our repeater group got amatuer licenses and dropped the personal radio gear.

Bob

[N9JIG]

FRS and GMRS are separate but related services. Many consumer "blister-pack" radios include the GMRS repeater output channels in positions 15 to 22, 1-14 are FRS. These radios require by law a GMRS license to use, at least on GMRS only channels, but this has been never enforced AFAIK. These radios typically do not include the GMRS repeater inputs, since it is illegal for simplex operations to occur on the repeater inputs on GMRS freqs, and the use of a repeater requires the proper PL tone in most areas as well as coordination with the repeater owners.

FRS is restricted to simplex operation on 14 channels that are interspaced between existing GMRS channels. FRS is limited to 1/2 watt and fixed antennas as well as some other technical limits.

GMRS is allowed up to 50 watts on 8 repeater pairs, repeater outputs are on 462.xxx and inputs on the corresponding 467.xxx channels. GMRS licensees are also allowed 5 watts on the 462.xxxx interstitial freqs shared with FRS channels 1-7. GMRS licensees are also not bound by the more restrictive technical requirements of FRS when using GMRS Type Accepted radios. Most GMRS operations use mobile and portable radios also seen in use by business and public safety users, such as Motorola, Kenwood and Icom's.

462.5500 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 15)
462.5625 FRS 1, GMRS Simplex
462.5750 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 16)
462.5875 FRS 2, GMRS Simplex
462.6000 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 17)
462.6125 FRS 3, GMRS Simplex
462.6250 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 18)
462.6375 FRS 4, GMRS Simplex
462.6500 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 19)
462.6625 FRS 5, GMRS Simplex
462.6750 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 20)
462.6875 FRS 6, GMRS Simplex
462.7000 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 21)
462.7125 FRS 7, GMRS Simplex
462.7250 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 22)

467.5500 GMRS Repeater input to 462.5500
467.5625 FRS 8
467.5750 GMRS Repeater input to 462.5750
467.5875 FRS 9
467.6000 GMRS Repeater input to 462.6000
467.6125 FRS 10
467.6250 GMRS Repeater input to 462.6250
467.6375 FRS 11
467.6500 GMRS Repeater input to 462.6500
467.6625 FRS 12
467.6750 GMRS Repeater input to 462.6750
467.6875 FRS 13
467.7000 GMRS Repeater input to 462.7000
467.7125 FRS 14
467.7250 GMRS Repeater input to 462..7250

[Twister_2]

Originally Posted by N9JIG

FRS and GMRS are separate but related services. Many consumer "blister-pack" radios include the GMRS repeater output channels in positions 15 to 22, 1-14 are FRS. These radios require by law a GMRS license to use, at least on GMRS only channels, but this has been never enforced AFAIK. These radios typically do not include the GMRS repeater inputs, since it is illegal for simplex operations to occur on the repeater inputs on GMRS freqs, and the use of a repeater requires the proper PL tone in most areas as well as coordination with the repeater owners.

FRS is restricted to simplex operation on 14 channels that are interspaced between existing GMRS channels. FRS is limited to 1/2 watt and fixed antennas as well as some other technical limits.

GMRS is allowed up to 50 watts on 8 repeater pairs, repeater outputs are on 462.xxx and inputs on the corresponding 467.xxx channels. GMRS licensees are also allowed 5 watts on the 462.xxxx interstitial freqs shared with FRS channels 1-7. GMRS licensees are also not bound by the more restrictive technical requirements of FRS when using GMRS Type Accepted radios. Most GMRS operations use mobile and portable radios also seen in use by business and public safety users, such as Motorola, Kenwood and Icom's.

462.5500 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 15)
462.5625 FRS 1, GMRS Simplex
462.5750 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 16)
462.5875 FRS 2, GMRS Simplex
462.6000 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 17)
462.6125 FRS 3, GMRS Simplex
462.6250 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 18)
462.6375 FRS 4, GMRS Simplex
462.6500 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 19)
462.6625 FRS 5, GMRS Simplex
462.6750 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 20)
462.6875 FRS 6, GMRS Simplex
462.7000 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 21)
462.7125 FRS 7, GMRS Simplex
462.7250 GMRS simplex and repeater output (Bubblepack Ch 22)

467.5500 GMRS Repeater input to 462.5500
467.5625 FRS 8
467.5750 GMRS Repeater input to 462.5750
467.5875 FRS 9
467.6000 GMRS Repeater input to 462.6000
467.6125 FRS 10
467.6250 GMRS Repeater input to 462.6250
467.6375 FRS 11
467.6500 GMRS Repeater input to 462.6500
467.6625 FRS 12
467.6750 GMRS Repeater input to 462.6750
467.6875 FRS 13
467.7000 GMRS Repeater input to 462.7000
467.7125 FRS 14
467.7250 GMRS Repeater input to 462..7250

So this means that a person with a bubble pack radio set can only access the repeater systems if they are FRS and Simplex?

[Don_Burke]

Originally Posted by Twister_2

So this means that a person with a bubble pack radio set can only access the repeater systems if they are FRS and Simplex?

There are no FRS repeaters and there are no simplex GMRS repeaters. At least no legal ones.

[kc4jgc]

Originally Posted by twister_2

So this means that a person with a bubble pack radio set can only access the repeater systems if they are FRS and Simplex?

There are NO blisterpack FRS channels on GMRS inputs. As Don said, for good reason! You need a license to operate on any GMRS frequency. Why the outputs are included in these FRS units is beyond me. Be that as it may, you may only legally MONITOR channels 15-22 on your blisterpack radio. If you want to talk to someone, stick to channels 1-14. If you get a GMRS license, you may then legally transmit on channels 15-22 as simplex ops are permitted on the repeater output freqs.

[chrismol1]

Originally Posted by Don_Burke

There are no FRS repeaters and there are no simplex GMRS repeaters. At least no legal ones.

also kinda hard to make make a "simplex" repeater lol
no $80 bubble packs for repeaters
Only nice expensive ones that can be programmed to specific channels for repeater inputs

[Grog]

Originally Posted by chrismoll

also kinda hard to make make a "simplex" repeater lol

Actually, radio shack used to sell one, as do others. It just records what you say and retransmits it, can be useful in some situations.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=simplex+repeater

Originally Posted by chrismoll

no $80 bubble packs for repeaters Only nice expensive ones that can be programmed to specific channels for repeater inputs

The Icom 21 series has been popular for the GMRS crowd, as low as $123 from some dealers but an icom proce hike will squash that.

[PHOENIX_SCANNER]

Great questions. GMRS repeaters (sadly) don't all appear on some list. You have to do a lot of listening.

Thank GOD repeater input frequencies are not on bubble-packs (yet). That will ruin what is left of GMRS. Up until recently (thanks ebay), one needed a ICOM cheapie $125 at a minimum to get repeater capable, and that tends to keep most of the riff-raff out. If anyone buying a $10 set of radios from walmart could key up on a repeater they would all shut down pronto.

Even with these things in mind, most repeater users around here use some combination such as a ctcss code AND a dtmf code combined so that the moron jammers who DO go to the trouble of buying a duplex radio off ebay can't get it. It is frustrating because a legitimate user like myself who wants to pay to join the repeater group cant usually do it easily. The database isn't accurate for one thing, then on top of that even if you read their PL or DPL code, you don't know the other code they are using to lock people out, so you can't even talk to them, all because of the mess we have.

Why do we have it? The FCC allowed the sale of ultra-cheap radios to people without having to show a license, that are GMRS capable. Why one earth do $10 radios from the dollar store have GMRS output frequencies? Why? Why doesn't someone have to show a license to purchase GMRS equipment?

I have personally turned in companies for operating business on repeater outputs several times, and it is hard to get any action. The people running the Phoenix Cardinals stadium were using one of the frequencies for operations, and when notified they quit. A local garbage company still uses one and refuses to quit. The FCC seems powerless to stop them too, they just don't care really. For $30 now on ebay you can get a radio that WILL transmit on repeater input frequencies (though they are not duplex thank goodness), so the repeater owners have to work hard to protect their investment.

Sadly GMRS people haven't stood up for their service, and it is dying as a result. Hams are much more defensive of their bands, and will not tolerate illegal use, so they don't have as much of an issue.

GMRS is for licensed family use only.

FRS by the way is for FAMILY USE ONLY, not for department stores do operate "on the cheap" with (which many do). Not for parking lot attendants. These are ILLEGAL uses. But who enforces the law? Nobody. The FCC gladly takes GMRS license fees, but won't protect the service.

Bubble packs should be FRS only. The actual difference between 500 mw and 5 watts isn't much on flat terrain anyway (.75 mile vs. maybe 1.5 miles range at best). On top of this, with the horrible antennas on these little radios, the ERP is usually 2-3 watts max anyway. So that 5 watts is largely wasted, just eating batteries with minimal efficiency. You need a real commercial grade radio with a real antenna to get a good ERP from a UHF radio. I have seen ERP's of around 1 watt for a "5 watt" bubble-pack radio. Look at the type certification docs on some of these things.

It's a real shame the FCC allowed the creation of a cool service like GMRS, then charged too much for licensing, and provided no enforcement for the money. It has been all but ruined.

Some users migrate to ham licensing, but the whole purpose of GMRS is different than amatuer. One license covers my whole family, including my kids who have no business on amatuer radios. My wife isn't going to study for an amatuer license either. Everyone if your family would need one to accomplish what GMRS can do with one license, and for those without much money, they can use cheap radios for the whole family. Try that with amatuer equipment.

It's a shame, but we probably have three repeaters in our area and they are locked down tight.

[Don_Burke]

Originally Posted by chrismoll

also kinda hard to make make a "simplex" repeater lol

Actually, it is quite simple.


http://members.cox.net/n1nte/simplexrepeaters.html

[chrismol1]

Originally Posted by Don_Burke

Actually, it is quite simple.


http://members.cox.net/n1nte/simplexrepeaters.html

well were talking about professional duplex GMRS repeater input and output frequencies, so otherwise for repeaters, yeh...radioshack..other simplex recorders....meh..i meant for the thread....whatever

[Don_Burke]

Originally Posted by chrismoll

....whatever

Well said.

[n8emr]

Originally Posted by btritch

Where does one find out where to see if there are any GMRS/FRS towers/repeaters in your area? FCC?

YOu monitor, There is no FCC database with gmrs repeaters. A poor list can be found at g.m.r.s.org
but its a self listing service so if I dont want mine on there it doesnt show up.

[n8emr]

[QUOTE=PHOENIX_SCANNER;821782
GMRS is for licensed family use only.
[/quote]
Not totally true, GMRS is licensed and the license is good for an entire family but that family can use GMRS for personal or business use. There is also nothing stiopping a compnay from licenseing every employee on GMRS (expensive and stupuidid but can be done) and using GMRS for a business purpose.

FRS by the way is for FAMILY USE ONLY, not for department stores do operate "on the cheap" with (which many do). Not for parking lot attendants. These are ILLEGAL uses. But who enforces the law? Nobody. The FCC gladly takes GMRS license fees, but won't protect the service.

Again, not true, While FRS is family radio. There is nothing in the rules that says it can be used by businesses

Bubble packs should be FRS only. The actual difference between 500 mw and 5 watts isn't much on flat terrain anyway (.75 mile vs. maybe 1.5 miles range at best).

I agree combo's are bad. You will also find that FEW if any FRS or combo radio put out 1/2watt on FRS channels, Most are under 250mw and many only 150mw. Even the GMRS side of many combo rarely go above 2.5 watts.

[GreatLakes]

Originally Posted by chrismoll

also kinda hard to make make a "simplex" repeater lol
no $80 bubble packs for repeaters
Only nice expensive ones that can be programmed to specific channels for repeater inputs

Actually there is such a thing as a simplex repeater. It uses a store, and forward technique.

[GreatLakes]

Originally Posted by kc4jgc

There are NO blisterpack FRS channels on GMRS inputs. As Don said, for good reason! You need a license to operate on any GMRS frequency. Why the outputs are included in these FRS units is beyond me. Be that as it may, you may only legally MONITOR channels 15-22 on your blisterpack radio. If you want to talk to someone, stick to channels 1-14. If you get a GMRS license, you may then legally transmit on channels 15-22 as simplex ops are permitted on the repeater output freqs.

If you have a GMRS license you are also allowed to transmit on FRS channels 1~7 with up to 5-watts.