Repeater

Crazy_flyer8 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 09:57 PM

Is there a way to find a repeater that may be hidden in the roof of a building. The store that I work at has a repeater but no one knows where it is. It a three story building. Anyone have any ideas what floor it would be on and is there anything i could use to find it.

Sorry if this is in the wrong spot.

FLRAILMAN · #2 (**permalink**) 10-13-2009, 10:18 PM

I would venture a guess that it would be on the third floor or maybe enclosed in a roof shelter, do you have access to the roof or do you see any antennas on it? If the repeater is working then you could capture the signal with a handheld scanner with a spectrum sweep feature or better yet, a close call feature. Have you tried the www.fcc.gov database? If you positively know that there is a repeater in your building & there are no antennas on the roof, just maybe you don't want to know anything about it if you get my point because you make this sound so mysterious. You ever see any black helicopters flying around your store or any black suburbans with G plates parked in the area? (LOL) Wish I could tell you more.

FLRAILMAN

n4yek · #3 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 08:20 AM

I doubt you would have antennas on the roof if you are using a low power repeater inside of a building. Mainly because everyone would be underneath the antenna and the radiated pattern would be above everyone making it useless.

Do what FLRAILMAN suggested and use a scanner with close call or spectrum sweeper. If you are close enough, you should be able to take off the antenna from the scanner and pin point the repeater.

SkipSanders · #4 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 08:47 AM

Tampering with your company's repeater would be a really good way to get fired...

However, what makes you think it's in your building, anyway? A business repeater is more likely to be on a local hill, or water tower, or just some other high building.

Even if it is in your building, there may not be any easily visible antenna, since it could be a 'leaky coax' antenna running all through the building, if it's intended only for in-building use, in which case, the actual electronics could be anywhere. Could be a 'base repeater' with the repeater being the base station of the system, using whatever antenna type was chosen.

Crazy_flyer8 · #5 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 12:52 PM

You guys are funny. I do Loss Prevention in said store and right now we are on a simplex which is garbage becasue the office is on the first floor and you can be following someone on the third and you can't hear the person on camera's. We are trying to get it fixed/ get a new one if it is too broken. I would not be tampering with it seeing as it is important to my work. We just need to find it to get it put back on and was wondering if i culd use my scanner or if there was another device.

scansalot52 · #6 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 12:59 PM

You could communicate with the company that does your repair or installed the repeater?

mcscanner · #7 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 01:24 PM

My take on the situation is that you will have to do a physical search of the interior of the building. I would focus on equipment closets near locations that provide vertical access from floor to floor. I am not familiar with an internal repeater system, but I would expect some type of ‘antenna’ like device in the ceiling that could be visually traced by cables to vertical access points which could take you to the nearest equipment closet.

All this assumes some logic for ease of installation and maintenance… and well I have made that mistake before!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy_flyer8

You guys are funny. I do Loss Prevention in said store and right now we are on a simplex which is garbage becasue the office is on the first floor and you can be following someone on the third and you can't hear the person on camera's. We are trying to get it fixed/ get a new one if it is too broken. I would not be tampering with it seeing as it is important to my work. We just need to find it to get it put back on and was wondering if i culd use my scanner or if there was another device.

ecps92 · #8 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 01:39 PM

Did you look up your License to see if there is a Repeater licensed [before you chase your tail]

Also on the license it might show a company who handled your paperwork [likely the same who would have done the install]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy_flyer8

You guys are funny. I do Loss Prevention in said store and right now we are on a simplex which is garbage becasue the office is on the first floor and you can be following someone on the third and you can't hear the person on camera's. We are trying to get it fixed/ get a new one if it is too broken. I would not be tampering with it seeing as it is important to my work. We just need to find it to get it put back on and was wondering if i culd use my scanner or if there was another device.

SkipSanders · #9 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 03:39 PM

You say the repeater isn't in use/working...

So how were you figuring you could direction find/detect it to tell where it is? If it's not in use/transmitting, there's nothing to detect.

If you know the frequency, or your callsign, or just your latitude and longitude, you can use the Canadian licensing authority's database to look your license (if any) up.

It's not all that uncommon for a business to have let their license lapse, sometimes many years ago, and therefore no longer be listed (or legal to operate), so you may or may not find anything there.

You can use one of the more modern handhelds' 'close call'/'signal seeker' modes to determine your transmitting frequency, which could help.

Spectrum Direct - Radio Frequency Search

Crazy_flyer8 · #10 (**permalink**) 10-14-2009, 07:58 PM

Thanks that is actually a lot of help. I am thinking we are just going to buy another one but it would still be good to find the old one. The tech said it should be in a stockroom somewhere but everyone has different theory's as to where.I was thinking maybe the radio's just aren't programed right and that is why i can't use them one the repeater but that the repeater is working but will see.

kb2vxa · #11 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 08:10 AM

"I would not be tampering with it seeing as it is important to my work."

WRONG! Your job description does not include monkeying around with your tools or equipment, you are not responsible for maintenance. If I were your boss and caught you at it I'd fire you in a heartbeat for damaging company property. The wise thing to do is make your employer aware of "certain security issues" and let him handle it, that's his job, not yours. Have you ever seen a superior blow his top when someone goes over his head? If you do, you will.

Crazy_flyer8 · #12 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 08:49 AM

You need to chill out and realize for one it is a question, two I never said when I find it that I am going to climb a ladder and start reprogramming it. You need to come down and stop being the repeater police.

THE THING NEEDS TO BE REPAIRED THAT IS IT!!!! No one can find it so I am trying to find it so that THE TRAINED TECHNICIAN (that key because I never said me) can reprogram or fix it.

Next time stop reading to deep into things and just answer the question.

Tommahawk · #13 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 11:59 AM

Oiii Vehhh........... Crazy_flyer8 you need to sit back and relax a little bit there buddy. Everyone is trying to help you, but your interactions with people aren't sending a very cut message..... Tell us a little bit about this repeater, what frequency you think it should be on, where you are located and we might be able to help a little bit more....

You have come on here seeking assistance yet are turning people away with your comments....... Who wants to help someone with a attitude?

ecps92 · #14 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 12:54 PM

And PLEASE update your profile, we have no idea if your from the USofA, Canada, Mexico or Iraq/Iran ! It helps in providing Answers to your Questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy_flyer8

You need to chill out and realize for one it is a question, two I never said when I find it that I am going to climb a ladder and start reprogramming it. You need to come down and stop being the repeater police.

THE THING NEEDS TO BE REPAIRED THAT IS IT!!!! No one can find it so I am trying to find it so that THE TRAINED TECHNICIAN (that key because I never said me) can reprogram or fix it.

Next time stop reading to deep into things and just answer the question.

Crazy_flyer8 · #15 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 04:10 PM

I get your trying to help but some people just decide to give me a lecture on tampering with devices. Oh and some people have been helpful and i have figured out the frequency that is supposed to be registered.

All I can really tell you about it is the building is in Toronto Canada well more like Scarborough in a three story department store. I was looking at the base station today and I found an antenna attached to it in the ceiling but no repeater. Some of the guys in my department know we had one but any of the guys that worked there when it was put in are long gone. As of right now we are trying to get a new one but finding the old one would be good as we have to wait for the funding to get a new one.

As I said right now the radio's are on simplex and is soooooooo bad!

Here is another question does a repeater transmit and receive on the same freq or is it different. I am so in experienced with all this radio stuff. I have a scanner but that is about as far as i have gotten.

Thanks in Advanced

Astrak · #16 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 04:24 PM

A repeater has an input frequency and an output frequency. So no they do not transmit on the same frequency that they receive.

ecps92 · #17 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 04:42 PM

What freq, it can be checked against the TAFL directory. Before you start chasing your tail, it might just be a Base Station [Simplex]

When you say base station [What type?, the base would have it's own Antenna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy_flyer8

I get your trying to help but some people just decide to give me a lecture on tampering with devices. Oh and some people have been helpful and i have figured out the frequency that is supposed to be registered.

All I can really tell you about it is the building is in Toronto Canada well more like Scarborough in a three story department store. I was looking at the base station today and I found an antenna attached to it in the ceiling but no repeater. Some of the guys in my department know we had one but any of the guys that worked there when it was put in are long gone. As of right now we are trying to get a new one but finding the old one would be good as we have to wait for the funding to get a new one.

As I said right now the radio's are on simplex and is soooooooo bad!

Here is another question does a repeater transmit and receive on the same freq or is it different. I am so in experienced with all this radio stuff. I have a scanner but that is about as far as i have gotten.

Thanks in Advanced

Crazy_flyer8 · #18 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 07:04 PM

That is what I was thinking. There is two reasons well maybe three why i think there is a repeater. ! the guy from the company we use said one was installed there, 2 on the portables when you change to to channel two it says repeater and when your on one it says simplex.

The model of the base station is Max Trac 100.

I think I incorrectly stated the type of radio, I think it is just a mobile radio for like cars and stuff.

rvictor · #19 (**permalink**) 10-15-2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy_flyer8

That is what I was thinking. There is two reasons well maybe three why i think there is a repeater. ! the guy from the company we use said one was installed there, 2 on the portables when you change to to channel two it says repeater and when your on one it says simplex.

The model of the base station is Max Trac 100.

I think I incorrectly stated the type of radio, I think it is just a mobile radio for like cars and stuff.

It would be useful to determine the frequencies that the portables transmit on when they are set to "Simplex" and to "Repeater". Normally the portables should be transmitting on the input of the repeater and listening on the output when set to "Repeater". Often the output of the repeater is also used for simplex communications although there could be an entirely separate frequency instead.

Does the base station have any similar markings for simplex and repeater operation?

Dick

littona · #20 (**permalink**) 10-16-2009, 09:40 AM

If your building has an elevator, I've seen many in the electrical/mechanical room for the elevator. Sometimes they're thrown in air handler rooms, sometimes electrical rooms, could be anywhere. Maybe it was removed? That would be a great reason why you can't find it and repeater mode doesn't work!