bonus1331
Member
Interesting article from the Newnan Times Herald below.
Towers going up for new safety communications - The Times-Herald
Towers going up for new safety communications - The Times-Herald
Coweta to go live on 700 Mhz in August
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RobertsRadio
Member
Coweta County System
If all of the systems in an area/region are P25 and are linked together it does not matter if the system in one county is a 700 MHz System and the system in the next county over is an 800 MHz System as long as the radios used by field personnel operate in both bands and the radios are set up for roaming. The radios will automatically roam to the tower site with the best signal to allow users to maintain communications. At least that's the basic idea on how it is suppose to work.
If all of the systems in an area/region are P25 and are linked together it does not matter if the system in one county is a 700 MHz System and the system in the next county over is an 800 MHz System as long as the radios used by field personnel operate in both bands and the radios are set up for roaming. The radios will automatically roam to the tower site with the best signal to allow users to maintain communications. At least that's the basic idea on how it is suppose to work.
Did not know they could cross over on this system. I'm new to this digital system. I know that Haralson, Carroll and Heard co. all operate on the same control channel in the mid 800 range. Will Coweta have same control channel or will their control channel be in 700mhz range.
b7spectra
EMS Dispatcher
Checked the FCC database, and there is nothing reserved in either 700 or 800 MHz for Coweta. If it is their system, I guess they need some frequencies!
bonus1331
Member
I think the article is stating that Coweta will be joining WARRS.
If that is the case, will we necessarily see an FCC petition?
Western Area Regional Radio System Authority (WARRS) Trunking System, Carollton, Georgia - Scanner Frequencies
I'm looking forward to it, living here in the Northern part of Coweta.
Newnan FD and PD along with Senoia PD are difficult to copy at times.
If that is the case, will we necessarily see an FCC petition?
Western Area Regional Radio System Authority (WARRS) Trunking System, Carollton, Georgia - Scanner Frequencies
I'm looking forward to it, living here in the Northern part of Coweta.
Newnan FD and PD along with Senoia PD are difficult to copy at times.
Coweta County System
The City of Marietta shares some of the same frequencies used by Coweta County and the City of Newnan and I can hear Newnan Fire (154.2500), Newnan PD (155.6850) and Coweta County SO (151.1300) just fine in Marietta up around Kennestone Hospital with tone code disabled on our radios.
I personally think Coweta County and many of the other agencies who are planning to switch to 700/800 MHz P25 Phase 1 Systems are making a huge mistake that will cost County taxpayers twice the amount of money and possibly more in the long run. I believe these agencies should bite the bullet and move forward with narrowbanding their existing VHF and UHF Systems while at the same time use this as justification to improve the portable coverage of these existing VHF Systems then wait to see what happens with P25 Phase 2 and LTE. One of the arguements many of the agencies have stated for moving forward with 700/800 MHz P25 Phase 1 is they have been waiting for over 30 years to make changes in their radio systems to improve coverage. Well duh, why haven't they pushed to make these improvements in coverage before now? Well, my guess is it's because they have always made two-way radio communications an extremely low priority and putting the purchase of newer model weapons, new and additional cars, a SWAT Van, Traffic Accident Investigation Vehicle, portable message boards and other things ahead of their radios. Fast forward 30 years and now all of a sudden not having coverage on the radio system is a major crisis and the only answer is to move to 700/800 MHz P25, go figure...One of my concerns is if all of the P25 Phase 1 radios will be obsolete in four to five years and will have to be replaced. Motorola recently announced the end of lifecycle on the XTL and XTS series radios, so we know they are not going to support these much longer. My biggest concern is if an agency like Coweta County joins a P25 Phase 1 regional system what happens if the City of Douglasville, Carroll County and the others decide one year from now they are going to sign on the dotted line to upgrade to Phase 2 in two more years. Will Coweta basically have to purchase Phase 2 radios when their Phase 1 radios are only three years old? Sounds like this could actually happen, you think?
The City of Marietta shares some of the same frequencies used by Coweta County and the City of Newnan and I can hear Newnan Fire (154.2500), Newnan PD (155.6850) and Coweta County SO (151.1300) just fine in Marietta up around Kennestone Hospital with tone code disabled on our radios.
I personally think Coweta County and many of the other agencies who are planning to switch to 700/800 MHz P25 Phase 1 Systems are making a huge mistake that will cost County taxpayers twice the amount of money and possibly more in the long run. I believe these agencies should bite the bullet and move forward with narrowbanding their existing VHF and UHF Systems while at the same time use this as justification to improve the portable coverage of these existing VHF Systems then wait to see what happens with P25 Phase 2 and LTE. One of the arguements many of the agencies have stated for moving forward with 700/800 MHz P25 Phase 1 is they have been waiting for over 30 years to make changes in their radio systems to improve coverage. Well duh, why haven't they pushed to make these improvements in coverage before now? Well, my guess is it's because they have always made two-way radio communications an extremely low priority and putting the purchase of newer model weapons, new and additional cars, a SWAT Van, Traffic Accident Investigation Vehicle, portable message boards and other things ahead of their radios. Fast forward 30 years and now all of a sudden not having coverage on the radio system is a major crisis and the only answer is to move to 700/800 MHz P25, go figure...One of my concerns is if all of the P25 Phase 1 radios will be obsolete in four to five years and will have to be replaced. Motorola recently announced the end of lifecycle on the XTL and XTS series radios, so we know they are not going to support these much longer. My biggest concern is if an agency like Coweta County joins a P25 Phase 1 regional system what happens if the City of Douglasville, Carroll County and the others decide one year from now they are going to sign on the dotted line to upgrade to Phase 2 in two more years. Will Coweta basically have to purchase Phase 2 radios when their Phase 1 radios are only three years old? Sounds like this could actually happen, you think?
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
the problem is many (dare I say most) agencies do not have a reliable, independent source of information and often rely solely upon a vendor to supply them with information on what they need as a solution. As with the case of any sales organization, it is their goal to sell, and sell as much and make as much profit as possible. I cannot blame the vendor for overselling any more than the buyer for overbuying.
Most industry consultants are getting their backs scratched by a particular vendor of choice. This is where we need a think tank of technical minds who want to come to the table and act as an advisor to clear the air, without being on the payroll of any vendor. I know of one such organization at work locally doing just that- the mission is to save taxpayers money (after all it is OUR money) while ensuring that served agencies' get what it is they pay for and NEED.
In times like this that comes in handy.
Most industry consultants are getting their backs scratched by a particular vendor of choice. This is where we need a think tank of technical minds who want to come to the table and act as an advisor to clear the air, without being on the payroll of any vendor. I know of one such organization at work locally doing just that- the mission is to save taxpayers money (after all it is OUR money) while ensuring that served agencies' get what it is they pay for and NEED.
In times like this that comes in handy.
bonus1331
Member
The low priority to upgrade communications over the last 30 years became a moot point when the federal government started handing out cash.
Back to the original point though...
If Coweta is just joining WARRS, wouldn't that explain why we wouldn't see new frequencies being allocated to the county by the FCC?
Back to the original point though...
If Coweta is just joining WARRS, wouldn't that explain why we wouldn't see new frequencies being allocated to the county by the FCC?
rmiller818
Member
the problem is many (dare I say most) agencies do not have a reliable, independent source of information and often rely solely upon a vendor to supply them with information on what they need as a solution. As with the case of any sales organization, it is their goal to sell, and sell as much and make as much profit as possible. I cannot blame the vendor for overselling any more than the buyer for overbuying.
Most industry consultants are getting their backs scratched by a particular vendor of choice. This is where we need a think tank of technical minds who want to come to the table and act as an advisor to clear the air, without being on the payroll of any vendor. I know of one such organization at work locally doing just that- the mission is to save taxpayers money (after all it is OUR money) while ensuring that served agencies' get what it is they pay for and NEED.
In times like this that comes in handy.
Sounds like a great business opportunity for you!
Frequencies for Coweta County and WARRS
Yes it could be, provided the number frequencies/channels will handle the load and the system owner (not sure if it is the City of Douglasville where the WARRS concept originated or if it is Carroll County now) worked with a consultant or Motorola to license the frequencies already allocated to the WARRS at tower sites located in Coweta County. This would be one thing to check on the FCC data base to see where the tower sites are for this system's call sign and if you find sites Coweta County then you have your answer. Of course, there is always the possibility there has been a mix up and no one has filed an application for the frequencies. If my memory serves me correctly, I think this happened with one of the P25 Systems installed in one of the counties in the metro area a few years ago and the vendor went ahead and put the system on the air using the frequencies listed in the State of Georgia 800 MHz Regional Plan. Good thing the FCC approved for this agency to use the frequencies allocated in the plan and there weren't any interference issued related to using these frequencies otherwise someone would have had to shell out some bucks for frequency coordination, system realignment and retuning along with a bunch of reprogramming.
Yes it could be, provided the number frequencies/channels will handle the load and the system owner (not sure if it is the City of Douglasville where the WARRS concept originated or if it is Carroll County now) worked with a consultant or Motorola to license the frequencies already allocated to the WARRS at tower sites located in Coweta County. This would be one thing to check on the FCC data base to see where the tower sites are for this system's call sign and if you find sites Coweta County then you have your answer. Of course, there is always the possibility there has been a mix up and no one has filed an application for the frequencies. If my memory serves me correctly, I think this happened with one of the P25 Systems installed in one of the counties in the metro area a few years ago and the vendor went ahead and put the system on the air using the frequencies listed in the State of Georgia 800 MHz Regional Plan. Good thing the FCC approved for this agency to use the frequencies allocated in the plan and there weren't any interference issued related to using these frequencies otherwise someone would have had to shell out some bucks for frequency coordination, system realignment and retuning along with a bunch of reprogramming.
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Coweta is confident in 700 Mhz System
RESPONSE FROM COWETA
As you know, this project was handed to me once Dennis left his position with the county. The county was well on its way to joining WARRS with funding coming from the Fire Bond that was passed in 2008.
That being said, I can say that since we joined the WARRS system, we are working to make the best system we can.
When we specked out our radios, we did think about the future from the standpoint of where will the system we are joining be in years to come.
We have had many conversations with Motorola and WARRS about equipment, technology and engineering.
We also hired an independent consulting firm to review what was presented to us .
As you know, to build our own system would cost us in the neighborhood of 15 million maybe more. By joining a regional system , estimates dropped to 5 million.
By negotiating with Motorola, an independent tower company , and applying for and receiving a grant, we were able to bring that cost to 3.9 million for the equipment, FD radios and a system upgrade so that we were not joining a system that wouldn’t get us very many years down the road.
The independent tower company paid Coweta County to build the towers and we reserved the top 100 feet of tower space. Also, the tower company is taking down the old GSP tower and tower on Selt Road at PWC at no charge to the county. Funds collected went towards the purchase of the other public safety radios not covered in by the fire bond.
We spoke with other counties to see what pluses ( or problems) they had by operating on a 700/800 MHz trunking system.
We did, in fact, purchase radios that are Phase 2 compatible(once WARRS ever makes that migration) . They are being shipped the end of this month.
WARRS, as a whole, would move forward with going to a phase 2 system upgrade, and we – Coweta , are ready to make that migration from an equipment standpoint once it happens.
Quoted from an email from Coweta County EMA Director Jay Jones
RESPONSE FROM COWETA
As you know, this project was handed to me once Dennis left his position with the county. The county was well on its way to joining WARRS with funding coming from the Fire Bond that was passed in 2008.
That being said, I can say that since we joined the WARRS system, we are working to make the best system we can.
When we specked out our radios, we did think about the future from the standpoint of where will the system we are joining be in years to come.
We have had many conversations with Motorola and WARRS about equipment, technology and engineering.
We also hired an independent consulting firm to review what was presented to us .
As you know, to build our own system would cost us in the neighborhood of 15 million maybe more. By joining a regional system , estimates dropped to 5 million.
By negotiating with Motorola, an independent tower company , and applying for and receiving a grant, we were able to bring that cost to 3.9 million for the equipment, FD radios and a system upgrade so that we were not joining a system that wouldn’t get us very many years down the road.
The independent tower company paid Coweta County to build the towers and we reserved the top 100 feet of tower space. Also, the tower company is taking down the old GSP tower and tower on Selt Road at PWC at no charge to the county. Funds collected went towards the purchase of the other public safety radios not covered in by the fire bond.
We spoke with other counties to see what pluses ( or problems) they had by operating on a 700/800 MHz trunking system.
We did, in fact, purchase radios that are Phase 2 compatible(once WARRS ever makes that migration) . They are being shipped the end of this month.
WARRS, as a whole, would move forward with going to a phase 2 system upgrade, and we – Coweta , are ready to make that migration from an equipment standpoint once it happens.
Quoted from an email from Coweta County EMA Director Jay Jones
KK4DAN
Member
Man, I'm going to be missing hearing the Newnan PD, Newnan Fire, Coweta SO, & Coweta Fire all on the good 'ole VHF frequencies. Guess I'll have to finally break down and get a digital scanner. I think Newnan/Coweta is one of the last agencies around the metro area to go digital.
One good thing that is coming out of this is that the County agreed to flip the bill to move the 2mK4SEX Amateur Radio antenna (145.130) from the old tower that is coming down to t he new tower that was just built. I think I've even heard that antenna is going to end up at a higher height on the new tower compared to what it is now which will be great. We'll see if that happens and how it will affect the coverage of that repeater.
One good thing that is coming out of this is that the County agreed to flip the bill to move the 2mK4SEX Amateur Radio antenna (145.130) from the old tower that is coming down to t he new tower that was just built. I think I've even heard that antenna is going to end up at a higher height on the new tower compared to what it is now which will be great. We'll see if that happens and how it will affect the coverage of that repeater.
bonus1331
Member
I searched the posted WARRS control channels last weekend and still nothing.
Would assume we should start to hear some testing in the near future if an August live date is still the plan.
Would assume we should start to hear some testing in the near future if an August live date is still the plan.
Coweta County/Newnan not the last to go digital
Nope, Newnan/Coweta is not one of the last agencies around the metro area to go digital. There are several that have not and probably will not move to 800 MHz digital any time soon and these are:
1. Bartow County SO is still analog VHF conventional;
2. Bartow County FD is still analog VHF Low Band conventional;
3. Bartow County EMS is still analog VHF conventional;
4. Cherokee County SO is still analog VHF conventional;
5. Cherokee County FD/EMS is still analog VHF conventional;
6. Clayton County PD & SO are still analog VHF conventional;
7. Clayton County FD/EMS is still analog UHF conventional;
8. Douglas County S.O. is still analog VHF conventional;
9. Douglas County FD/EMS is still analog VHF trunked;
10. Paulding County SO is still analog VHF conventional;
11. Paulding County FD is still analog VHF conventional;
We will have to wait to see what these agencies do, especially with the economy the way it is. I find it hard to believe some agencies have spent millions to install 800 MHz P25 Systems, plus are spending well over a million dollars a year just to pay for maintenance on these radio systems, yet they are furloughing and or laying employees off from jobs that need to be done in order for a city or county to be clean and safe to maintain the "good quality of life" that attracted people and businesses to move there. I do not have to give you the names of these agencies because if any of you watch the local TV news each night and listen to scanners so you know who they are. I also have a hard time believing agencies have purchased or want to purchase 800 MHz P25 "Phase 2 compliant radios" when Phase 2 standards haven't even been agreed upon. Oh well, like I said, we will have to wait and see what happens with this one, but my guess is there are going to be a lot of disappointed people (either citizens or government employees or both) somewhere, someday.
Nope, Newnan/Coweta is not one of the last agencies around the metro area to go digital. There are several that have not and probably will not move to 800 MHz digital any time soon and these are:
1. Bartow County SO is still analog VHF conventional;
2. Bartow County FD is still analog VHF Low Band conventional;
3. Bartow County EMS is still analog VHF conventional;
4. Cherokee County SO is still analog VHF conventional;
5. Cherokee County FD/EMS is still analog VHF conventional;
6. Clayton County PD & SO are still analog VHF conventional;
7. Clayton County FD/EMS is still analog UHF conventional;
8. Douglas County S.O. is still analog VHF conventional;
9. Douglas County FD/EMS is still analog VHF trunked;
10. Paulding County SO is still analog VHF conventional;
11. Paulding County FD is still analog VHF conventional;
We will have to wait to see what these agencies do, especially with the economy the way it is. I find it hard to believe some agencies have spent millions to install 800 MHz P25 Systems, plus are spending well over a million dollars a year just to pay for maintenance on these radio systems, yet they are furloughing and or laying employees off from jobs that need to be done in order for a city or county to be clean and safe to maintain the "good quality of life" that attracted people and businesses to move there. I do not have to give you the names of these agencies because if any of you watch the local TV news each night and listen to scanners so you know who they are. I also have a hard time believing agencies have purchased or want to purchase 800 MHz P25 "Phase 2 compliant radios" when Phase 2 standards haven't even been agreed upon. Oh well, like I said, we will have to wait and see what happens with this one, but my guess is there are going to be a lot of disappointed people (either citizens or government employees or both) somewhere, someday.
KK4DAN
Member
Well a few counties left, but obviously a majority of them have been talked into new systems. Yeah I agree a lot of money being spent on radio's when many of them are furloughing employees. Kind of crazy..
KK4DAN
Member
I don't know if this was listed on there earlier, but it looks like Coweta is definitely going 700mhz according to this link - Western Area Regional Radio System Authority (WARRS) Trunking System, Carollton, Georgia - Scanner Frequencies
and then it lists these frequencies
and then it lists these frequencies
bonus1331
Member
I've loaded the posted frequencies into the 396XT as of yesterday morning.
As of yet, I'm not even hearing a control frequency here.
As of yet, I'm not even hearing a control frequency here.
N4GKS
Member
Hope they don't go encrypted like a lot of stations in Alabama have or are talking about.
KK4DAN
Member
I would strongly doubt it since the rest of the WAARS isn't encrypted, and that would keep the rest of them on that system from talking to them.
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