Has coweta county, ga fully switched to the new system

[MTS2000des]

The half rate codec Verizon uses is crap. Now HD voice, on Verizon's LTE network is a different story...


Verizon's HD LTE Voice Calling: Hands On | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

[JRayfield]

You make very good points.

The problem is, people who have worked with and used two-way radio for years have trouble 'grasping' what MOTOTRBO really is and what it can really do. It's NOT a 'radio system'. It's a wireless networked computer system with VoIP. I run into this all the time, when I try to explain MOTOTRBO to a 'radio person'. They usually just don't get it. I explain it to an IT person and they understand it completely. Personally, it took a 'mind shift' before I really full understand what MOTOTRBO is and the potential that it has. I had to stop thinking of it as a 'radio system' and start thinking of it as a 'computer system'. That's when I really 'got it'. :-)

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Originally Posted by k4sgt

I am not saying that all of this stuff is brand new and never before seen, but some of it is. Never before have you been able to link a radio system and the popular SoftDocs software. With a Mototrbo system you now can. This potentially enables a lot of functionality, but the Coweta system is looking for the ability for their workers to be able to clock in and out from work from their radios. The action is logged on the actual SoftDocs server just as if an employee was at the office clocking in. With the advent of digital radio taking advantage of IP infrastructure, we are intering a new age of capabilities for radio systems. This is the next breakthrough. Now, if only there were a digital radio system that sounds as good as my digital cell phone!

[JRayfield]

Yes, AVL, short messaging, and status have been available with Fleetsync, but those systems can't even come close to doing what can be done with MOTOTRBO. And, with narrowband analog fm, you're going to have reduced range, as compared to MOTOTRBO (and likely, compared to wideband analog fm, too).

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

These features are also available on LTR systems, and have been for about 10 years. Kenwood's FleetSync signaling package and software offers GPS with AVL, short messaging, status updates, and asset tracking and has been available way before MotoTRBO existed, going back to 2000 when the TK880/380 series came out.

One doesn't have to buy digital radios to get those features, and in some cases, many board of education systems already own those radios. Buy the Fleetsync package, add GPS boards to the radios, and you have the same functionality without replacing perfectly good radios (and they're fully narrowband compliant too)

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by JRayfield

Yes, AVL, short messaging, and status have been available with Fleetsync, but those systems can't even come close to doing what can be done with MOTOTRBO. And, with narrowband analog fm, you're going to have reduced range, as compared to MOTOTRBO (and likely, compared to wideband analog fm, too).

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Not everyone needs, nor can afford to replace their radio system. If you already HAVE Fleetsync capable radios, TKR base stations, you already HAVE everything you need to go narrowband and add GPS and Fleetsync software, and you're done.

I know of a local school board who is now LAYING OFF TEACHERS yet they found money to REPLACE their Kenwood fleet of less than 5 years old with new infrastructure and subscriber radios, THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.

It's about priorities John. You have children. What's more important, competent teachers in our classrooms, or fancy radios on school buses.

Ever listen to school bus drivers? They NEED simple radios that work.nand in my county they have great high sites for their UHF analog repeaters, their bus radios work all over metro Atlanta and beyond, even if going 2.5, they'll be fine on analog.

It's more money whizzed down the drain. My late mother was a teacher in that system for 25 years, she'd be turning in her grave.

[JRayfield]

I understand what you're talking about. I think these kinds of situations are going to have to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. One size does not fit all.

By the way, my sister is a teacher.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

Not everyone needs, nor can afford to replace their radio system. If you already HAVE Fleetsync capable radios, TKR base stations, you already HAVE everything you need to go narrowband and add GPS and Fleetsync software, and you're done.

I know of a local school board who is now LAYING OFF TEACHERS yet they found money to REPLACE their Kenwood fleet of less than 5 years old with new infrastructure and subscriber radios, THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.

It's about priorities John. You have children. What's more important, competent teachers in our classrooms, or fancy radios on school buses.

Ever listen to school bus drivers? They NEED simple radios that work.nand in my county they have great high sites for their UHF analog repeaters, their bus radios work all over metro Atlanta and beyond, even if going 2.5, they'll be fine on analog.

It's more money whizzed down the drain. My late mother was a teacher in that system for 25 years, she'd be turning in her grave.

[phillmobile]

Originally Posted by JRayfield

Yes, AVL, short messaging, and status have been available with Fleetsync, but those systems can't even come close to doing what can be done with MOTOTRBO. And, with narrowband analog fm, you're going to have reduced range, as compared to MOTOTRBO (and likely, compared to wideband analog fm, too).

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Narrowband fm will outperfom wide or digital in a range test no competition, in fact motorola refussed to supply to a trunked radio network because it would perform worse at distance the fm.
example
Land Mobile October 2011

[JRayfield]

Narrowband analog FM will not outperform Wideband analog FM. In most cases, the opposite is true.

Different digital technologies may not compare equally with each other, with respect to range. As to MOTOTRBO, systems (when properly designed and installed) have consistently provided more range as compared to narrowband analog fm systems and at least comparable (and in some cases better) range to wideband analog fm systems.

I would guess that what was mentioned in the article had to do with timing issues using TDMA technology. But not enough details were given to really know, for sure, what they were talking about - and definitely not enough details to 'back up' a statement as broad as you made that "Narrowband fm will outperfom wide or digital in a range test no competition"

John Rayfield, Jr.

Originally Posted by phillmobile

Narrowband fm will outperfom wide or digital in a range test no competition, in fact motorola refussed to supply to a trunked radio network because it would perform worse at distance the fm.
example
Land Mobile October 2011

[k4sgt]

My real world experiences back up what John said. I was, until recently, the head technician at an MSS. Now, I am an application developer in an innovative Fortune 200 company (finished my degree so I felt it was time to move on). I have fielded some very large Mototrbo systems and have been involved with the radio series since it was released. I have had zero examples of anything narrowband FM outperforming wideband FM and also every Mototrbo system that I ever fielded saw better coverage than the old wideband systems that were being replaced. Like John said, different digital voice technologies will have different results. The DMR technology has been outstanding in the field. Anyone experiencing otherwise would be well served to seek a qualified expert to help diagnose their problems.

Barry T. Odum Jr, CETsr

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by phillmobile

Narrowband fm will outperfom wide or digital in a range test no competition, in fact motorola refussed to supply to a trunked radio network because it would perform worse at distance the fm.
example
Land Mobile October 2011

That's laughable.
Maybe DMR has some issues, but in my personal trials of NXDN, NXDN blows analog away.

Using a NXR-810 configured for dual mode operation at 12.5KHz spacing and NX-800 mobiles with 1/4 mag mounts on my repeater site, NXDN provided clear, clean usable audio with little to no artifact from locations where an NFM carrier into the SAME REPEATER from the SAME LOCATION yielded scratchy, noisy almost useless audio. SAME RADIOS, SAME ANTENNAS, only changing the mode select on the subscriber radio to change between analog and digital.

[radioman2001]

Looks like we have a mini-me JRayfield here now (k4sgt).

The 2 Mototrbo systems in my area both have significant problems over analog, especially when running AVL./GPS. So much so that the department is going back to N.B. FM. I hope that school agency has considered that when they start running more data than voice over the system. Fortunately I was able to stop a local vendor from placing a system in my F.D.(This is my personal opinion, but I think the Chief has had a drink of the encryption Kool-aid) Even to the point that the vendor went on to say that the existing radios were NLA when in fact a letter direct from Motorola said otherwise. As a result of the bad press of Turbo and the fact that the local vendor lied about analog radio availability my P.D. also dropped the idea of going Turbo.

Motorola is doing nothing different in their sales tactic's than they did back in the 70's with DPL. They sell something that no other manufacturer has, a truely interoperable radio with other vendors whether conventional or trunking. This makes for a repeat customer, and you can be sure they won't discount the radio the second time around.