P25 control channel on 150.995

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by RobertsRadio

The license with Call Sign WQQJ709 also contains the frequencies used by the City of Woodstock PD (156.2400 MHz) and Douglas County Sheriff's Office (156.1650 MHz), so I wonder if these guys are hearing the P25 signals from Barrow County too?

The license application shows coordination applied for back in October of last year by AHTSO.

Odd how no one bothered to submit their FCC license application until this past Monday, yet they put the system on the air two months ago. That's like buying a car, and driving it without insurance or a valid tag.

I did notice their re-using of Woodstock PD's repeater output and DCSO, this is kind of cutting it pretty close for VHF, considering both base repeater outputs are licensed for 100 watts.

I use 25 watts on VHF anyday of the week to hit repeaters on 2m farther away than this.

Maybe rapidcharger is onto something. Pollute the VHF band to sell more radios. Not the first time this happened, anyone remember when Nextel jammed the heck out of 800 and Motorola got to sell a ton of new radios as a result of the Nextel interference?

[Buttabean]

Originally Posted by rapidcharger

Congratulations to Barrow County on getting your ticket!!!

Maybe one day you can fix your sucky new radio system so first responders don't have to repeat themselves a hundred times.
And maybe you can get with APCO about coordinating frequencies that don't inferfere with clayton county.

Brahaha! LMAO! U guys are brutal! Thats funny! BUT, If a HAM radio owner transmits before obtaining his license he is ridiculed & forced off tha bands by licensed hams, but if you are a public safety organization u can set up your P25 Digital system & test drive it for awhile before u license it & not have to worry bout being fined or shut down is the message i get from this. I'll be licensed soon enough & can talk on my radio without a license as long as their is a Licensed HAM present with a active callsign & i identify with it every 10mins per FCC Part97 rules. I wonder if they had someone with a active license standing in the 911 center while they dispatched calls without a license? Lol & congrats on barrow county gettin their ticket! Now its my turn!

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by Buttabean

Brahaha! LMAO! U guys are brutal! Thats funny! BUT, If a HAM radio owner transmits before obtaining his license he is ridiculed & forced off tha bands by licensed hams, but if you are a public safety organization u can set up your P25 Digital system & test drive it for awhile before u license it & not have to worry bout being fined or shut down is the message i get from this. I'll be licensed soon enough & can talk on my radio without a license as long as their is a Licensed HAM present with a active callsign & i identify with it every 10mins per FCC Part97 rules. I wonder if they had someone with a active license standing in the 911 center while they dispatched calls without a license? Lol & congrats on barrow county gettin their ticket! Now its my turn!

They'll probably hand off the blame to their vendor. It's what usually happens when some part 90 user gets popped for bootlegging when you read the FCC's EB page. Of course the ignorance of the law is no excuse.

The way this system was procured from the beginning stinks the typical stench of good old boy Georgia gubment. Nevermind it was another sole source vendor closed door/gold course meeting style hoe down, are we REALLY surprised they'd skip the licensing part? Maybe they wanted to "make sure it worked" properly first. Yeah right.

The amount of corruption that runs rampant in this state amazes me. I'm almost ashamed to have my families' surname on a state park and courthouse.

[Chauffeur6]

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

The license application shows coordination applied for back in October of last year by AHTSO.

Odd how no one bothered to submit their FCC license application until this past Monday, yet they put the system on the air two months ago. That's like buying a car, and driving it without insurance or a valid tag.

Actually, coordination was approved on October 25th, not applied for.

Once a frequency coordinator has signed off, the entity can start using the frequencies immediately under what's known as "Conditional Authority".

As far as their application being submitted on the 7th and granted on the 9th, I have never, ever, seen a new regular license (non-STA) granted that quickly in all my life. Renewal Only's sometimes take longer than 2 days. There is something more to this story, believe me. It's possible it was a glitch on the FCC's end, or the application was submitted through some means other than ULS, which is why it didn't show up and appears to have been processed so absurdly fast.

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by Chauffeur6

Actually, coordination was approved on October 25th, not applied for.

Once a frequency coordinator has signed off, the entity can start using the frequencies immediately under what's known as "Conditional Authority".

As far as their application being submitted on the 7th and granted on the 9th, I have never, ever, seen a new regular license (non-STA) granted that quickly in all my life. Renewal Only's sometimes take longer than 2 days. There is something more to this story, believe me. It's possible it was a glitch on the FCC's end, or the application was submitted through some means other than ULS, which is why it didn't show up and appears to have been processed so absurdly fast.

Not the first time this two day turnaround has happened. The city of Atlanta operated an unlicensed, uncoordinated high power UHF repeater known as COMNET patched into the former analog TRS since 1990 on 453.25MHz- only until someone let Fox 5 news know about it did they seem to bother to get it licensed, a week after Fox 5 starting calling and asking about it:

See WQGT306, new application received 4/10/2007, application granted and licensed issued the next day. Coordination was granted on 4/02/2007.

The city operated this repeater unlicensed since October 1990.
Just curious, but what specific rule in part 90 allows for conditional authority?

[Chauffeur6]

Section 90.159 - Temporary and conditional permits.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-201...-sec90-159.pdf

They really should've had the application filed before operating, I'll grant you that, but it really wasn't as big a deal as it may've seemed. Once they got coordinated, they were in pretty good shape as far as the FCC was concerned.

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by Chauffeur6

Section 90.159 - Temporary and conditional permits.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-201...-sec90-159.pdf

They really should've had the application filed before operating, I'll grant you that, but it really wasn't as big a deal as it may've seemed. Once they got coordinated, they were in pretty good shape as far as the FCC was concerned.

It kind of is a "big deal" to those of us here in the area, Barrow county operates above the law on many fronts. So many of us are suspicious- the entire process they used for the procurment has been shady and layered in contreversy, another topic for discussion elsewhere.

But thanks for posting the link, wasn't aware of this. I am familiar with the STA process.

What many have issue with were the frequencies selected for this system, they are closely spaced with other metro/regional agencies using high powered conventional repeaters. Many have noted inteference from the Barrow county system on those frequencies, which initially appeared to be unlicensed. It's now an issue for the AHTSO and FCC should those agencies choose to pursue resolution. At least they now know (as do all interested) who the interfering party is.

[RRR]

There are occasions where the vendor (Radio dealer) is licensed on particular frequencies, and allows the purchaser ("department") to use those frequencies until the freq. coordinator has the license obtained for them.

[rapidcharger]

Originally Posted by RRR

There are occasions where the vendor (Radio dealer) is licensed on particular frequencies, and allows the purchaser ("department") to use those frequencies until the freq. coordinator has the license obtained for them.

But not in this case. Every other licensee in the state on that frequency was looked at.

[rapidcharger]

Originally Posted by Chauffeur6

Section 90.159 - Temporary and conditional permits.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-201...-sec90-159.pdf

They really should've had the application filed before operating, I'll grant you that, but it really wasn't as big a deal as it may've seemed. Once they got coordinated, they were in pretty good shape as far as the FCC was concerned.

The applicant didn't comply with the requirements for conditional authority. Especially, paragraph 6 E. They don't identify ever, even when they do have a license, let alone a W/T followed by their phone number.

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by rapidcharger

The applicant didn't comply with the requirements for conditional authority. Especially, paragraph 6 E. They don't identify ever, even when they do have a license, let alone a W/T followed by their phone number.

Good point, I never heard any reference to this temporary identifier either- but then when most of the talkgroups running ADP encryption, who would?

[rapidcharger]

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

Good point, I never heard any reference to this temporary identifier either- but then when most of the talkgroups running ADP encryption, who would?

I was gonna say that I thought the IDs had to be in the clear but after looking it up, as usual, the rules and regs leave the reader with more questions than they answer. Like I said, they didn't even ID when they were analog simplex. Even the prisons do that.

[codeplug]

Barrow County Public Safety System

New frequency’s being added to the trunked system, application pending.
ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Trunked License - WQQJ709 - BARROW COUNTY E911 CENTER

Frequency - Station Class
155.81250 - FB8 - Centralized Trunk Relay
158.75250 - MO8 - Centralized Trunk Mobile
Emission Designators: 11K2F3E, 7K60FXE

[rapidcharger]

Thanks for letting us know that, Codeplug.
It seems like Barrow County has been making some efforts to get legal lately, they've even started IDing on their simulcast channel.
If I had to guess, it looks like they're going to move over to some new splinter channels so they can finally stop interfering with other agencies in the area.

[codeplug]

Barrow County Public Safety System

In addition to the two new freq.'s being added I just noticed that they have modified their existing freq.'s to add P25 emission
designators (8K10F1E, 8K10F1D) and remove the narrow band analog & TRBO emission designators (11K2F3E, 7K60FXE).
Not sure what the TRBO emission was for other than for testing.
These freq.’s need to be verified for use or activity.
151.27250, 155.81250.