GMRS and Disaster Preparedness

[dksac2]

We live in a semi rural area and have started an Emergency Net for GMRS radio users. We already have a very good VHF / UHF net.

You must have your GMRS license to join the GMRS net, we have 2 GMRS repeaters on a mountain within easy viewing distance at 9000 feet.

Many people don't want to take the Ham radio test or just want an easy way to communicate, so GMRS is perfect. Most people use take out commercial Motorola, Kenwood or Yaesu radios with 25 to 50 watts. Some buy the commercial GMRS antennas, others use a J pole 20' over their roof when mounted to their home. In any case, the coverage with the repeaters is fantastic, at least 30 miles or more depending on your direction and using duplex, we can talk anywhere in the valley we live in. The coverage is just about as good as a lot of VHF / UHF set ups. We do use a PL code so we can better control who is on the frequencies, we are not set up for bubble pack radios, but do listen for them on scanners.

The radios used can be found cheap on E Bay if one looks around and we have a group member who has all the programming software and programs at no charge.

We help anyone who needs it, especially our senior citizens.

We are better prepared than most ARES although there is not the training, but it is encouraged. Much training can be found for free, not for the money ARRL charges, we conduct training on Net night.

Myself and many others are Races and many ARES trained and certified. Me, I refuse to pay the money the ARRL wants for the privlage of wearing their ARES badge, I'm Races certified and work with the local Emergency Coordernator as well as SAR. I have been a LEO and worked in emergency related jobs my whole life, so I have a pretty good idea of how to run a net if need be as well as others in the group.

The local GMRS is mostly for people to report emergencys, flooding, being blocked in their home or any other problem as well as to be used to warn people to leave an area if need be. They can also talk on other channels to each other for things they may need or just some comfort.

GMRS is not reconized by the others as a ligitimate emergency communications group, but with a group not too big (areas can be split up), I think that GMRS can provide a very useful service. It also gives a way for warnings and can communicate the need for emergency services.

In a long term even, there may be people who cannot get out to get wood or food. These can be delivered or the person taken to a shelter. We get a great deal of snow in winter being at 6200'.

Being a smaller community where many of us know each other, we will always do our best to help each other out. GMRS gives us another tool to do so and it's nothing like the CB of years past.

If not orginized where you live, you just might want to think about starting a net. Those of us most involved have radios in our homes, vehicles and quality commercial handhelds. We follow the FCC rules, keep it professional and it has worked great in our area, it just might in your area also.

No reason small neighborhoods cannot orginize with bubble packs either. If you can get on the roof, you can transmit quite a distance and just getting outside if possible should get you heard by someone, even on FRS, better to get a license and at least a handheld commercial, not a modified radio. The majority of us have back up batteries for our rigs, many have solar panels and extra batteries for the handhelds. The handhelds with a real 4 or 5 watts will transmit quite a distance, especially if you get them up high and use a good aftermarket antenna.

We have also got more than a few trained who have tested and got their FCC Technician license, many have gone on to get their general and now operate on HF as well as Vhf / Uhf, SO IT PAYS OFF BIG TIME.

John KF7VXA / WQPP214 RACES 1T10

[gewecke]

React teams from past years could make similar claims or even more abilities, most have dwindled.

73,
n9zas

[W9NES]

Training is available free of charge by FEMA. ISO-100,ISO-200, ISO-700, ISO-800 by the FEMA web site.These classes will let you know who is in charge during a emergency and how the command system works.

[dksac2]

Those are some of the courses needed to qualify for your Races certs, but have nothing to do with ARES certs for the most part. I do think that ARRL wants some of the FEMA courses taken also, but there is no cost for those courses or the grading and self printed certs they send once you completed the courses, passing them of course.
I think they are darn good courses and there are many more available, all for free.

Take advantage of them, take the required courses, print out the certs and take them to the county Emergency Coordinator and he or her will do the required work to get you Races Certified.

I guess tht ARRL rubs me the wrong way using their courses for money making. They would get far more people to volenteer for ARES if it were free. They have more than enough other ways of making money.

I know I have spent a decent sum of my own money on radios, easy to set up antennas, remote power, accessories, ready to go coax and much, much more so that I can set up several stations anywhere and have about anything I or others may need to get on the air, I don't need to spend more money to the ARRL their cert. Should they change things such as putting study material on the net for free and not charge to get certified, I'd be one of the first to do so. I am far from well to do, I have bypassed doing other things I would have liked to do just to get radio equipment, so I'm no fat cat, I have sacrificed a lot for something I feel is very important. I don't want pats on the back if I am needed, I just want to do the best I can to help others under the direction of those above me.

Besides, if all goes bad, only FEMA will specify what frequency(s) can be used and then they can only be used by RACES certified people, not ARES. Not even RACES will be able to communicate 100% of the time, but when things go bad, it will be Races people on bands approved by FEMA only.

Just my 2 cents.

John KF7VXA / WQPP214

[gewecke]

I refuse to have anything to do with ARRL, due to their goofy politics and greediness, but have taken numerous public safety training modules for my part time job.
Some years back I was a REACT member, but dropped the team since continuing education was not what they were interested in.

73,
n9zas

[W9NES]

Some groups are receiving federal funding .In order to keep federal funding comming for that group you need to complete those said courses.The ARRL is a great group.The couses are the same for RACES and ARES. I am a member of my local ARES unit. Our RACES unit was phased out by our local EMA.Our local ARES Unit was on a standby during the Bilzzard of 2012 that we had here Metro Marion County/City of Indianapolis this past week. I am also a member of a local Search and Rescue Team and use a lcoal gmrs repeater. You do have a great idea as far as having a net on FRS and GMRS. I will be looking at this idea at a local level in Metro Indianapolis/Marion County.

[dksac2]

There are positive things about the ARRL and other things that are going the wrong way.

Seems they spend too much time on DX contests. They are great if you are rich, have an antenna farm that spans a city block with 100K worth of antennas and towers and have 15K plus in equipment, but the guy with the 100 watt radio and 3 element beam does not have much of a chance. I get tired of seeing all of these high dollar projects.
Some are interesting to show what can be done, but the little guy seems to get less and less that can help him or her on the air. Their answer is to buy a $40.00 book for each subject. I'm tired of them pimping for my money.

I enjoy doing as much as I can with little, to me, that is where the fun is. I can accomplish things, but it takes far more time. There are things I will never acomplish because I don't have the $$$ for the necessary set up, but I'm far prouder when I make a good contact then the guy that has to have the latest, most expensive gear to make him feel good about himself.
The ARRL seems to be pushing these high dollar stations more and has less meat for the regular guy.

I'm more than pleased just staying with my Races cert.
This is one of the reasons I spend so much time helping people, especially the older folks set up GMRS stations as cheap as possible so they feel safe in knowing that they can communicate if help is needed and other communication is down.
Get your community set up and establish good communication and working habits with the other counties around you. When something major happens, we will be on on own for some time, no ARRL or FEMA will be there that day or for more than several days, we must be ready and able to take care of ourselves until we do get some kind of help.

There were many people who never saw any help, so be ready and able to help your family and those around you, help them get them ready and on board, not all will want to do anything, but many will.

It looks like lately all the Government wants to do is to take away our firearms so we cannot protect ourselves from roving bands of bad people, don't give up your firearms, you may need them. The Law enforcement sure won't be there to protect you, you can be sure of that. If they do come, it will just be to dissarm you.

Be sure to check with your county and large businesses. Many have radios that cannot be narrow banded or that they are upgrading. We just got a pile about 5' square of radios given to us. They range from 3 channel to the better radios, but all can be programmed to the emergency repeater frequency as well as the simplex frequencies that would be used in an emergency. These will go to low income people in the county. Be creative, there are ways to save the public a lot of money. Most all are 25 watt radios, perfect for use just about anywhere with the right antenna and it's placement.

John

[N5DRM]

John-
I too share your thoughts regarding the ARRL. A few questions, is your group a non-profit and how is the group managed, i.e., board, etc.? I am very interested in what you have going and would like to explore further how you do things with your group. Your posts indicate that you folks have a dedicated team and take the subject seriously.
Thanks,
David
N5DRM

[W9BU]

Originally Posted by dksac2

I guess tht ARRL rubs me the wrong way using their courses for money making. They would get far more people to volenteer for ARES if it were free.

They charge for their courses because it costs money to develop effective and useful courses. Yes, the FEMA courses are "free", but us taxpayers pay for the development and administration of those courses.

Are you saying that your local ARES group requires that you complete the ARRL courses? That is not the case around here.

Bob Burns W9RXR
District 5 Emergency Coordinator
Indiana Section ARRL

[dksac2]

No one is required to complete any course. Most people have completed one course or the other, many both just because they want the training. It is encouraged, but not mantory. Most people like to be able to say they have completed a course and give their RACES / ARES numbers when answering to the call from net.

As far as tha ARRL and the charge for the books, just put it on line and let people cert for free, ARRL makes money from dues, other books, things they sell and letters sent out begging for money etc, it's pretty sad that they need whatever little bit of money they make selling the training books. Just put them on line for free.
Emergency training is so important it should be for free. It would not only encourage more people to get trained, but would be great PR for the ARRL.
As long as they charge, I will not get ARRL certified. I have learned most of what I need to know from the free FEMA courses and from the net and jobs-life experiences.

73's John KF7VXA

[dksac2]

N5DRM, I have tried to answer your question 5 times, it keeps throwing me off, I'll PM you with my phone number.

73's John

[W9NES]

The FEMA courses are FREE on line. There is NO COST involved. All you have to do is take the classes on line. After completing the classes you will know how the NCS system works.* It is asked for all Ham radio operators to take these courses by the ARRL.At this time it is not MANDATORY to do so. So noted.

[baw352]

Originally Posted by W9NES

Our RACES unit was phased out by our local EMA.

RACES is alive in Marion County. Feel free to message me for contact information of the RACES Officers.

Brent Walls, K9CFE
Emergency Coordinator
Marion County ARES

[W9BU]

Or, point your web browser here:

Marion County RACES Information | Marion County Amateur Radio Emergency Communications

[ywhic]

Was going to do a REACT setup out in West Texas on my property (11 acres).. but you need 3 personnel.. hard when I am a single person..

I still plan on setting up a monitor site with CB, GMRS, and scanner for everything else.. if I can help by relaying messages I will..

The area is prone to wild fires and such so I may pass out to the ranchers some walkies set to GMRS since cell service doesn't exist where we are at..

[Exsmokey]

Originally Posted by W9NES

After completing the classes you will know how the NCS system works.*.

Just so I'm sure about what you are saying, did you mean ICS and not NCS? ICS stands for the Incident Command System. I'm not sure what NCS means in this context.

I would guess that you live in a rural area and not in a small city connected to a large metro area. I think this type of network that you created will work in a rural area because in an urban area there would be too much interference from huge numbers of users during a disaster situation. I guess such "competition" could be overpowered with more powerful and legal radios, but I don't know as I've never tried to do such a thing.

I live in a town of about 7,500 people in a county of 13,000 people. I would imagine that establishing such a network here would be possible and useful. I am a member of our town's CERT organization and work the town's EOC during all our mock disasters. It is a tough enough job doing so and adding a GMRS network to monitor is not possible. However, someone else in CERT might be willing to take this on.

You mentioned using surplus radios. I haven't looked this up lately, but can guess that narrowbanding is not required for GMRS.

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by W9RXR

They charge for their courses because it costs money to develop effective and useful courses. Yes, the FEMA courses are "free", but us taxpayers pay for the development and administration of those courses.

Are you saying that your local ARES group requires that you complete the ARRL courses? That is not the case around here.

Bob Burns W9RXR
District 5 Emergency Coordinator
Indiana Section ARRL

Hmmm...did not the ARRL receive a Federal grant to provide the very training they are charging for? Doesn't seem right to me. Why did they get a $181,000 grant to provide training in 2003 if they turn around and charge their own members for the training?

The purpose of the grant was to provide training at no cost. Guess the folks in Newington didn't get that memo. Oh well, more free handout tax dollars why not?

ARRL Receives Homeland Security Training Grant:

FWIW, the FEMA Emergency Management Institute online courses are FREE OF CHARGE to anyone who wants them, and are accredited and recognized by all EMA/EOC's. I would encourage ANYONE who desires to delve into volunteering in disaster response in any capacity to at minimum get ICS100, and learn the basics of the Incident Command System.

One of the biggest problems I see is that ARES, while it gives the appearance of a national organization, isn't really an organization. There are some local groups that are highly organized, but many are not. The other issue I have with ARES is they are completely modeled around providing emergency "communicators". It's 2013. No one wants some guy following them around with an HT passing "radio grams" when, with the right training and a license, they can do it themselves. Many so-called ARES groups aren't even recognized entities, lack liability insurance, yet they conduct business signing agreements with government entities. Anyone else see a problem with this? What happens when something goes bad, who has your back? The ARRL? Yeah right. They will not know who you are. Then again, some ARES groups are incorporated as 501C3's, are properly organized- and these are usually attached to other entities such as EMA/EOC's or other clubs. It's truly a crap shoot.

There are many roles to fill during a disaster, more fit and ready volunteers, who happen to be hams, and come with their own autonomous communications, are more of an asset than what the ARRL says ARES members are supposed to do, which is provide emergency communications. While some ARES groups go outside this, again, I ask the question: who's got your back when something goes wrong? The almighty league will tell you that you are NOT supposed to do ANYTHING other than jockey a radio. Yet the ARES groups are loaded with "Emergency Coordinators", I wonder how many people who wear this title actually hold the qualifications to call themselves EMERGENCY anything. It's one thing to have a title: it's another to actually DO something. Lots of chiefs and few Indians. And if you do have proper training (which the league doesn't offer), and you do CPR on someone, the ARRL will be quick to divorce you.

The ARES model is all about providing a pool of these "communicators" that will somehow come into a situation and save the day. In the real world, it doesn't happen. The real world calls for people who are properly trained and ALREADY THERE to be able to provide their own communications should normal channels not be available. The ham communicator's place ideally should be external to assist. But you'll never hear most ARES guys tell you this, because they pump out this constant mantra of "when all else fails". But let me ask you this, how are we, the served agency, supposed to call upon you if "all else fails"? We're supposed to wait for you to self-dispatch? Miss Cleo will tell you when an emergency happens? Uhm, okay. Sounds good. Meanwhile...back to reality...

I say seek out an find a recognized, incorporated entity that trains with the agencies they serve. Do they offer liability insurance? Are they a real business entity? Is there a chain of command or just a bunch of guys with titles. Is the training accredited through FEMA, your state EOC or public safety training entity? There are plenty of highly organized volunteers active in disaster in most areas.

If you plan on starting one yourself and doing it right, be prepared to spend a ton of money, do alot of work. Professional liability insurance is a must if you plan on doing anything other than standing around. This alone can cost several thousand dollars a year. Been there, done that.

BTW, lots of hams are looking for an alternative to ARES. The ARRL needs to put ARES to bed and work with served agencies directly and train hams from within to manage their own resources. But what do I know.

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php...native-to-ARES

[W9BU]

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

Hmmm...did not the ARRL receive a Federal grant to provide the very training they are charging for? Doesn't seem right to me. Why did they get a $181,000 grant to provide training in 2003 if they turn around and charge their own members for the training?

Yes, the ARRL did receive some sort of grant money almost 10 years ago to provide their EmComm courses free of charge to members. I took one of those courses under that program. However, after the grant money ran out, the course fees returned.

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

It's 2013. No one wants some guy following them around with an HT passing "radio grams"...

I agree that old model based on NTS radiograms is old-fashioned. There is a move afoot within ARES to somehow merge the NTS radiogram with the ICS-213 message form.

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

Many so-called ARES groups aren't even recognized entities, lack liability insurance, yet they conduct business signing agreements with government entities. Anyone else see a problem with this? What happens when something goes bad, who has your back? The ARRL?

In my area, individual ARES groups are not supposed to be signing MOUs with served agencies unless those MOUs are reviewed by the Section Emergency Coordinator and the Section Manager. The SM is the ARRL's representative and can speak for the League within his section.

However, all of this discussion of ARES is off-topic. The OP asked about using GMRS for communications within his response group. ARES is based on using amateur radio to provide auxiliary communications in an emergency. GMRS is not amateur radio.

[Wyandotte]

Seeing as some here know something about this, I want to ask a question.

A few years back, I got interested in my county ARPSC, attended a few meetings, etc.
When they handed me the app sheet to join, it needed to know my drivers license and s.s. number.
Can't join without providing that info. I didn't join, and didn't go back. Don't ask me why, maybe I'm just being funny. Just didn't see why I had to provide that info for a entry level position in a volunteer organization.

My question is, is this a requirement in your ARES/RACES/ARPSC group? And if so, why? Not trying to start a flame. The basic answer I got when I asked them was "Gotta have it, not sure why?".

I realize I'm off topic, but posted here anyway due to the number of people in this thread active in ARES/RACES/ARPSC.
Any moderator, feel free to move this to a more appropriate area.

Thank you.

[LtDoc]

Your SSN is required for a criminal background check. Your driver's license number can also be used for that in some cases. A background check is not an uncommon requirement.
- 'Doc