MURS as a disaster communications solution

[KF4ZTO]

Moderators, I was only able to find the FRS/GMRS and CB forums respectively, since MURS is a FCC Part 95 "CB" service I was a bit torn as to put it in the FRS/GMRS forum or the CB forum. So I decided on this forum. Please move this where you feel it would fit best. Thanks.

I've read elsewhere online (mainly YouTube and other forums) about MURS 1 (151.8200 MHz) being set up as a "prepper" "VHF CB" calling frequency. I feel that MURS the best of all three (er, four) of the citizen's radio service's qualities. CB/11 meters is crowded, noisy and filled with QRM but being at the upper end of HF behaves very much like low band VHF if you run decent antennas and SSB CB is useless for handheld radios and requires large antennas. Operating SSB requires operator work. FRS and GMRS are good for urban areas but, at least in some cities, suffer from congestion and the inability of one to replace the antenna of a portable while using a portable in a car. MURS allows for external antennas and, safe for MURS 4 and MURS 5, is completely clear of activity.

I was wondering if any other radio hobbyists (hams included) have programmed the MURS frequencies into their emergency services/interop frequency lists and/or their VHF ham radios. It's part of my HT and mobile programming now (all five MURS channels, not just MURS-1).

I am of the opinion that MURS is the ideal solution for emergency communications with people that aren't license ham radio operators.

Over the past few months I've purchased a few 16 channel VHF mobile radios and a Motorola P1225 HT that I've programmed with MURS, both with and without PL tones as part my "grab-n-go-box" set of emergency radio gear...with each radio is a 12VDC cigarette lighter plug and a mag-mount NMO mount. I have both 5/8 wave and 1/4 wave NMO antennas (cut for 152.000MHz) as part of the kit.

The idea being that in a disaster/emergency/SHTF situation, everybody knows that telecommunications networks are the first to go down. My family and close friends that aren't hams already aren't interested in becoming hams so giving each of them one of these "kits" in a disaster would be the next best thing.

My range testing has shown that mobile to mobile range with 5/8 wave commercial/public safety grade antennas is outstanding with MURS and easily beats out CB and FRS in both urban and suburban/rural areas.

Does anybody else have any experience with this radio service? 154.570 (MURS 4) and 154.600 (MURS 5) are quite busy, mostly due to grandfathered business users and whatnot but channels 1-3 have been completely and totally dead. Talk about a hidden gem of citizen's radio services. The radio companies have been slow to cater to this market (in comparison with the amount of FRS, GMRS and CB/11-meter/"10-meter export" radios on the market...) which is why I went with former commercial (GE/Maxon specifically) gear in addition to my Motorola P1225.

It would be awesome if we were able to establish MURS channel 1 (151.820MHz) as a "calling" or "hailing" frequency for making contact in an emergency situation.

Cheers.

-Phil

[elk2370bruce]

Give the FCC some time. I'm sure that part of the frequency spectrum can, and probably will, be put on the block for sale.

[quarterwave]

Bandwidth limitations on 1-3 are 11.25Khz....Motorola P1225's only go 12.5 or 20/25 so they are technically not compliant. However, I agree it is a good resource to utilize and I have seen some decent MURS radio have good range and usefulness.

[KF4ZTO]

I didn't realize the 1225 wasn't compliant...probably more compliant than running opened up VHF ham rigs on there. And FWIW, all my gear is programmed to "narrowband"...

[jhooten]

I prefer 154.6 for the calling channel and general chat channel. Why, you may ask. Programed radios will be all over the place. Almost every Walmart uses them. Easier to get important information out to the widest area. Save the three narrow channels for business and operational channels since not everybody and their brother will have access to them to break in when you are in the middle of something.

[danb1021]

i think your only allowed 2 watts on these frequency's..correct me if im wrong..

[nd5y]

Originally Posted by danb1021

i think your only allowed 2 watts on these frequency's..correct me if im wrong..

Correct. You are also only allowed to use Part 95 certified radios.

[SteveC0625]

Originally Posted by danb1021

i think your only allowed 2 watts on these frequency's..correct me if im wrong..

You are correct; two watts is the max.

[danb1021]

yes that is what i thought also..thanks

[Avery93]

Originally Posted by quarterwave

Bandwidth limitations on 1-3 are 11.25Khz....Motorola P1225's only go 12.5 or 20/25 so they are technically not compliant. However, I agree it is a good resource to utilize and I have seen some decent MURS radio have good range and usefulness.

Be careful not to confuse occupied bandwidth with channel spacing. In the case of MURS, 11.25 kHz (and 20.0 kHz for the last two channels) refers to the maximum occupied bandwidth. Since the maximum occupied bandwidth of a 12.5 kHz spaced channel is also 11.25 kHz, the P1225 is good to go in that regard. In fact, most radios (including the P1225) only occupy 11.0 kHz in narrowband mode, as evidenced by their 11K0F3E emission designator.

There is still the 2 watt maximum transmit power limit to contend with, and also the Part 95 certification that is needed to be completely legal. Low power on the P1225 is 1 watt, so it is also good there, but I don't know if it is Part 95 certified. As far as I know Kenwood is really the only manufacturer that also gets Part 95 certification on their Part 90 radios.

[gvranchosbill]

Just a quick reply as iam to busy at the moment but i thought i would mention my experience with
MURS.
The external antenna exceptions make for quite excellent distance.
I have two Motorola Maxtracs programed with MURS 1 through 5 in them and the power level is programed within legal limits using VHF Base to Mobile Unit with Gain antennas has given me
comms up to 40+ miles and that is in sierra mtn range,with lots of mtns etc.
I will return to this thread later.

[RKG]

Originally Posted by quarterwave

Bandwidth limitations on 1-3 are 11.25Khz....Motorola P1225's only go 12.5 or 20/25 so they are technically not compliant. However, I agree it is a good resource to utilize and I have seen some decent MURS radio have good range and usefulness.

This response confuses channel spacing with band occupation width.

A "12.5" channel (and a "12.5" setting on any Motorola radio) yields a max deviation of +/- 2.5 KHz.

The "rule" for bandwidth occupation for analog audio is 2 times max deviation plus 6.

Thus, a "25 kHz" channel (using +/- 5 kHz max deviation) "occupies" 16 kHz: 5 * 2 = 10; 10 + 6 = 16. As a result, 25 kHz licenses showed an emission designator of "16K0 . . ."

A "12.5 kHz" channel "occupies" 11 kHz: 2 * 2.5 = 5; 5 + 6 = 11. Hence the "11K . . . " emission designator.

There is no conflict.

Edit: I wrote the foregoing without going to the end of the thread and noticing that someone else had pointed out the same confusion. Apologies for the duplication.

[quarterwave]

Originally Posted by quarterwave

Bandwidth limitations on 1-3 are 11.25Khz....Motorola P1225's only go 12.5 or 20/25 so they are technically not compliant. However, I agree it is a good resource to utilize and I have seen some decent MURS radio have good range and usefulness.

Sorry guys. I was doing way too many things at once and thinking about wide-band only radios went I commented.

Fingers have been scolded.

[rapidcharger]

MURS isn't all that useful unless you are using a non-certified radio or radio that does not meet the requirements (violating the FCC rules/breaking the law). The p1225 is not certified for, nor does it meet the requirements of a grandfathered radio.

That doesn't stop many people from using it anyway.

2 watts portable would be fine for your own party/family but some kind of wide range network is not realistic. And a lot of preppers want to make their comms as private as possible for security reasons. Using some commonly used channel is counterintuitive.

Personally I would recommend something else. MURS would be like a homing beacon

[gman4661]

I could see MURS possibly being somewhat useful in the event of a major large scale disaster. As already mentioned, there are many thousands of Wal-Mart/Sams Club radios operating on 154.570 and 154.600. Add to that the number of other small businesses and hobbyists like ourselves. I guess maybe ham operators could tune in as well.

With tons of cheap older commercial/public safety radios being available, and some folks not being concerned with the legalities, it would certainly be doable. A basic 25 watt VHF mobile with a quarterwave would certainly give superior performance as opposed to anything in the UHF band such as GMRS/FRS.

I do like the idea of having an unofficial calling channel to use if cell sites and repeater towers either had no power or were down. Perhaps the prepper community would embrace this. A dedicated website might help get the word out...

[rapidcharger]

I have never even heard anyone use the 151.xxx MURS channels.

In the mid 90's the green and blue dot (154.xx) channels had a lot of use and still have some but if you're wanting for someone to hear you, as in, you're making a distress call, there's better places to do that and be heard. If you're wanting to coordinate your activities in a post-SHTF scenario, any standard frequency is going to make you vulnerable.

In SHTF, charging portable batteries is an another challenge. Assuming you had 12v power, it'd be easier to use a 12v mobile radio but that's really pushing it on murs.

[KF4ZTO]

In the OP I mention that I am using mobile radios. And yes the P1225 is on the "low power" setting.

[W9NES]

MURS is a vital communications tool. In my mobile command unit I carry a MURS radio that scans the vhf MURS channels along with a 14 channel Radio Shack FRS scanning radio.I also carry a mobile 40 channel cb radio for Channel 9 and 19. I also have a GMRS Mobile unit to use on a local GMRS repeater. I also have 2 meters and 440Mhz in a dual band mobile. In is a great idea to monitor your local MURS VHF channels in your local area. You never know when you are going to hear someone calling for help. If you are in the local area and can contact them you could make the difference between life and death."Saving lives so others can live" Bumper sticker on the back of my mobile command post. Also another sticker that says Ham Radio Operators Save Lives.

[rapidcharger]

Originally Posted by KF4ZTO

In the OP I mention that I am using mobile radios. And yes the P1225 is on the "low power" setting.

That's definitely not kosher.

The radios need to be certified for MURS or must be part 90 certified prior to nov 2002 (and still meet other restrictions)
Simply running low power isn't good enough. If the radio is even capable of going over 2 watts, then it's not what the FCC has in mind. You will need to go with something like the RDM Series and CP110m Series Motorolas which are specifically for MURS if you want to obey the rules and regs.

If you're using a 5 watt radio in low power, then that's usually only 1 watt, so you're not doing yourself any favors by using a non- certified radio anyway.

That's not to say that a lot of people for some reason don't think they'll ever get caught. And the likelihood of getting caught isn't great. Then again posting online that you're breaking the rules using your personally identifiable information such as your call sign isn't a real good idea in my opinion.

Originally Posted by W9NES

MURS is a vital communications tool. In my mobile command unit I carry a MURS radio that scans the vhf MURS channels along with a 14 channel Radio Shack FRS scanning radio.I also carry a mobile 40 channel cb radio for Channel 9 and 19. I also have a GMRS Mobile unit to use on a local GMRS repeater. I also have 2 meters and 440Mhz in a dual band mobile. In is a great idea to monitor your local MURS VHF channels in your local area. You never know when you are going to hear someone calling for help. If you are in the local area and can contact them you could make the difference between life and death."Saving lives so others can live" Bumper sticker on the back of my mobile command post. Also another sticker that says Ham Radio Operators Save Lives.

Then why not just save yourself the trouble and tell everyone to forget about MURS and use the ham band to put out their distress calls? As you already know having passed your exam that distress calls don't require a licensed operator. They don't even sell MURS radios hardly anywhere and nobody ever uses MURS 151.xx channels even on a good day.

MURS is useful, just not for distress calls.

[jhooten]

Originally Posted by rapidcharger

I have never even heard anyone use the 151.xxx MURS channels.

I use MURS 3 in the race car.