National Hiking Frequency/SAR

[SteveC0625]

Originally Posted by mmckenna

Well said. Call it a "flight plan", "float plan" or whatever, that is what is going to get you found. Relying on technology to solve the problem is just taking too much of a risk.

<Snip> for brevity

Taking a $100 (or less) radio in place of the correct training and equipment is just stupidity. Relying on a VHF simplex frequency that someone may or may not be monitoring as your solution is idiotic at best.
Wanting to save the day by playing radio is just pointless. I agree, some people are just looking for any reason to key up on a public safety frequency. IF that is your last choice and you have fully exhausted everything else, and the end is near, then fine, but calling into the Sheriff on their own frequency because you didn't prepare is just going to cause problems.

I'm with you and iepoker on this. Pre-planning and preparation along with the right equipment is the only way to go.

Now, as a first responder and EMT for most of my adult life, one of the recommendations that I'd offer is for hikers and climbers is to NEVER go out without making sure that your info is available to rescuers. Sign the darned log book at the trail head and leave enough info to be helpful. Make sure someone has your entire trip info and don't deviate from your plan. Save that unexpected side trip for another day.

I might get beat up a bit on this suggestion, but I think it's worthwhile. When you leave your trip info at the trailhead or whatever, include any two-ways that you might carry and frequency. (I'm specifically not thinking of a radio on the local sheriff's channel here.) If you carry a GMRS or FRS or (ham for those with tickets) AND note it in your trip plan, it would be a safe bet that the SAR teams will take the time to bring the same capability with them. Final points: 1. Stick to your selected channel and don't channel hop. 2. If the radio isn't fully charged, it's not going to be much use. I always have at least one spare, fully charged battery for my portable close at hand as well.

[RodStrong]

c

Originally Posted by iepoker

I hike a lot here in Southern California in the Angeles, San Bernardino and Cleveland National Forests. I do indeed carry a 2 watt GMRS radio, as well as a cell phone and GPS.

The cell phone, rarely works. But when it does it does. The GMRS, is mainly... goofily, to radio down to my wife and son and have them wonder in amazement how I can be 50 miles away and hear them loud and clear.

For me, and I am a pretty experienced guy up there... these above described items are not for my rescue.

The best tool to help you, is your pre-planning before a hike. You leave a note. Then you make a phone call and have that person write a note. Here is a sample of what I would write:

Cucamonga Peak via Icehouse Cyn Trail. Out by dark. Monitoring 462.700 pl141.3.

My wife knows if she doesn't hear from me by dark, it isn't good. An hour past that she makes the calls. I know I need to make it through the night. I know they will be looking in the AM.

DONT change your mind on where your going...

Great post. However, if you are in the back country, don't ever use a PL. Keep your radio wide open. Gives others a higher probability of contacting you. If someone is monitoring CSQ and hears you, and if you have a PL tone in there, they may never be able to figure out what it is, or may not have the ability or skills to program a radio to match your PL. PL tones are good for the mall and the ski resort, but never in the back country.

[Dantian]

The old timers will remember that the FCC tried to set up a radio service for SAR, called the Personal Emergency Locator Transmitter Service (PELTS).

The guy in charge of it had a squirrel pelt on his desk. Or maybe it was raccoon. That's probably all the fun he had with it because the proposal was squashed big time.

Here's the proposal:

FCC Record, Volume 04, No. 26, Pages 8619 to 8975, December 18-December 29, 1989, Page: 8657 | UNT Digital Library

[mlmummert]

Originally Posted by mmckenna

Wanting to save the day by playing radio is just pointless. I agree, some people are just looking for any reason to key up on a public safety frequency. IF that is your last choice and you have fully exhausted everything else, and the end is near, then fine, but calling into the Sheriff on their own frequency because you didn't prepare is just going to cause problems.

If you call the sheriff on their own frequency, they might show up but they won't be happy.


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[mmckenna]

Yep, they won't be happy. They'll rescue you, but you'll have some explaining to do.

[robertmac]

And is it any wonder why most police/fire/ems/wildlife/parks are going to encrypted radios?

[mm]

A better PLB than a spot is an ACR beacon. Their reviews are better and there is no subscription cost. WWW.acrartex.com

[pdfdems286]

Originally Posted by robertmac

And is it any wonder why most police/fire/ems/wildlife/parks are going to encrypted radios?

seriously. ya' think so ?. how many documented cases of people using their radio fq. to call for help, that justify their need to go encrypted ?. rather it's more a case of politics, and the perceived need not to be heard, that send them down encryption alley.

if it is a DIRE emergency, meaning the difference between LIFE or DEATH, then my take on it is use whatever means necessary to call for help. better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.

[mmckenna]

Originally Posted by pdfdems286

seriously. ya' think so ?. how many documented cases of people using their radio fq. to call for help, that justify their need to go encrypted ?. rather it's more a case of politics, and the perceived need not to be heard, that send them down encryption alley.

if it is a DIRE emergency, meaning the difference between LIFE or DEATH, then my take on it is use whatever means necessary to call for help. better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.

Not sure about encryption, but I do know we have changed PL tones before due to someone out there "kerchunking" the main SO system. A PL change and MDC added to every radio so at least they can narrow down if it's an officer, or someone screwing around.

By all means, if it really is a life or death situation, go for it, but if it's just laziness, lack of preparedness that isn't risking your life, etc, then you'd better think of something else. Rather than purchasing a Part 90 accepted radio for this, you'd be better off with a PLB if you are really serious. A PLB is going to be more likely to get you help. Two way radio coverage is not guaranteed in the back country. Being able to hit a satellite is going to give you much better odds. With the low cost of a PLB, comparable to a quality radio, it makes more sense.

[pdfdems286]

seriously though, if you want to be technical about it, would a mariner who has to abandon his boat, and end's up on land,use's his portable marine radio to call the c.g. for help, while standing on land be in violation of the rules regarding marine radio useage ?. i've seen a few incident's of this on cg related show's.

[mmckenna]

Yes, technically using a marine VHF on land without a shore station license is against part 80. Being an emergency fogs that up quite a bit. Again, if it was life and death and that was all I had, I'd use it. Just to be sure, I'd go stand in the water so if anyone complained I'd be legal.

[pdfdems286]

Originally Posted by mmckenna

Yes, technically using a marine VHF on land without a shore station license is against part 80. Being an emergency fogs that up quite a bit. Again, if it was life and death and that was all I had, I'd use it. Just to be sure, I'd go stand in the water so if anyone complained I'd be legal.

some of the rules are just ridiculous. where does one draw the line ?. if i was in alaska, i'd risk the fine instead of standing in 35 degree waters. burrrrr !.

[N2MRG]

It depends what you are doing........ are you going on a thru hike by yourself. PLB/spot seems appropriate.

I would not rely on programming your radio to transmit on the police frequencies. What if they are on a repeater, are you sure you've got the right input frequency? Right tone?

A very valid option could be simply an amateur radio and license. In VT we have the NFMRA where 7 repeaters are linked with wide coverage. And the nice thing is that you don't need to be in an emergency to "test" to see if it works. But this also requires planning. I would not rely on the national simplex calling frequency, again, even at the top of a mountain.

I would also not rely on any of the simplex stuff. FRS "9/11" , SAR, etc. Chances are unless you're at the top of a mountain, few would be able to hear you.

[E5911]

ref the oregon case, a number of years ago, hikers were using ham radios to contact San Diego county Sheriff on a ham radio after a person in thier party took a nasty fall. Rescue when off without a hitch, then after, the one that used the radio was aressted for unauthorized use of Sheriff's frequencies. I think he was released, but there ya go. You can do just about anything in the case of a life threatening emergency, but their may be matters to discuss later.

Here is the issue, number 1, someone has to HEAR you call for help. If you are hiking in BFE, you would be better with a PLB for a number of reasons. First, a PLB is designed to do the function you seek to acomplish. Radios can have dead batteries, cell coverage is limited in the back contry. As a dispatcher that has handled a few desert SAR incidents, I had radios go in and out, and cells go dead as the patient was giving directions, oh yeah, and there was the patient who did not know where they were. That was fun. The issue is that if you are injured or lost, you want to be found and helped, but you have to be found first. Get a PLB

[E5911]

check this for information. Pricy, but how much is your life worth?

Personal Locator Beacons (PLBs): How to Choose

[kb2ztx]

As an active SAR member and radio tech I have to say the big word...It "DEPENDS". I believe its a location based question really. Our SAR Team in our area monitors 155.160 and all the MURS channels and the GMRS emergency channel. With that said we use PL on all the channels, so unless you have the PL in your radio we wont hear you.

[W1SOP]

Hi,

I'm afraid a two way radio is of little use unless you know in advance someone will be listening to you. Even if you know you can hit a certain repeater from where you are hiking how certain are you someone will hear your call? Some repeaters are pretty darn quiet although some of course are not.

If I did any significant hiking or other traveling in areas where I can not get cell coverage I would get a Delorme InReach. Much better than SPOT because it works 2 way. I wish they had a model that works with both their GPS and with smartphones but as it stands I'd probably spring from the package with the PN-60. Much more rugged than my smartphone although you can also uparmor your android phone and bring auxiliary power for it.

If you are pretty certain you can hit an APRS digi you could use a Kenwood D72 to send email (and therefore SMS) using either APRS email or Winlink2000 over APRS. Arguably with an FT817 and a dipole pulled into a tree you can reach around the world and have someone call for help for you. Pretty heavy.

Sander W1SOP

[rescuecomm]

I used to carry my VHF squad radio (2 meter and public safety) when hiking around in the Jocasse Gorges of upstate SC. Now I take my old Icom W32A because I can use longer BNC type antennas with it. Nothing more frustrating than trying to check into a net from camp and they say you are barely over the noise and unreadable.

I have become familiar over the years about knowing what repeater can be accessed from where. When I am up on the ridge road, I have monitored some people on the lake using marine ch 16, but I can't say I have heard anyone on 146.520 or 446.000 in over 28 years of roaming the area.

If I was still able to through hike, I think getting one of the satellite based units is the safest bet. Especially if you are going alone.

Bob