GMRS System License

[rescuecomm]

When some friends and I first got into setting up a GMRS repeater, we had gotten a system license. This was back in 1986 and it covered all the members under one callsign. When the changes pushed by the Personal Radio Steering Group came in, everyone then had to buy a seperate license if you made any major changes to your system. We were in the act of moving our repeater to another site which was a major change. The new regulations were apparently driven to get large business users off of the frequencies. However, there appear to be legitimate groups needing comms that don't meet the private radio license requirements, but have too many members to request everyone to buy their own GMRS license's. Some of these are CERT groups, REACT, small farms that use contract workers, and hunt clubs. Is there anyway to bring back a limited system license that won't open the floodgates?

Bob

[tekshogun]

Get a license to operate your own spectrum like a business/commercial radio. If you have a legit organization, such as a non-profit club, you should be able to get a "site" license to operate in your area. Then you could, if you wanted to, use any technology you want, trunking (which is legal actually on the ham bands but we're not talking about ham), encryption, digital, etc, etc. I don't know how viable or economically practical this is but it is an option.

[RKG]

The answer to the question as posed by the OP is: No.

[RADIOGUY2002]

No, especially after this weeks experenice and a resort that is in violation that has been issued with a notice and has been asked to depart from gmrs. Hopefully they will compily, other wise the next step will be ongoing.

Break down and pay 85.00 for each team member of REACT to support their efforts or get a license that covers everybody group wide, invest the 700.00 dollars for the proper license.

[tekshogun]

It's now $85

[Thunderknight]

Originally Posted by RADIOGUY2002

No, especially after this weeks experenice and a resort that is in violation that has been issued with a notice and has been asked to depart from gmrs. Hopefully they will compily, other wise the next step will be ongoing.

Was the violation issued by the FCC? Is there a copy of it available online? I'd like to see the details.

[jmm346]

Originally Posted by Thunderknight

Was the violation issued by the FCC? Is there a copy of it available online? I'd like to see the details.

Not sure if this is the one referred to but here's one:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-287328A1.txt

[RADIOGUY2002]

Thanks for sharing, as it stands right now its under investigation. But, as soon as I get more details I will provide them to the group.

[Mirrah]

Question?

So, does applying for personal use cover a site also?

[RADIOGUY2002]

What exactily do you mean by site?

If you a speciffic location for family or friends or a corporation/business. Usually, when you say site in the industry. You mean a physical location in which the transmitter or reciever sits at and broadcasts from, if that be a tower site, a police station etc. The license has a location point of contact, that is where they would send information to if they need to get in contact with you and does not resrtrict to one speciffic loaction for GMRS. Theirfore your not really a site per say, however you are allows repeaters on GMRS as long as they fall with in the requirments, the frs you are not allowed repeater pairs or to be used as a corporation or as an indiviual family (not a operating DBA or corporation). However, their are plenty of stores and numerous other places that operate on FRS. The thing that got the FCC attention here is the fact that their was a repeater on FRS and their were other repeaters pairs with out licenses, reference from a compilant from what I gathered.

Is that the answer you were looking for or do I need redefind my answer to better reflect your question?

[tekshogun]

Originally Posted by Mirrah

Question?

So, does applying for personal use cover a site also?

If you mean: "Does a GMRS license allow you to setup a repeater somewhere?"
Then yes it does. You also have the ability to make the repeater open or closed for use to anyone.

If you mean: "Does a GMRS license allow you to use someone's repeater?"
Then answer is yes, however, if the person chooses to not let you use the repeater then that is their choice and you must abide by that.

The GMRS repeater can be located just about anywhere. I think it would be dumb but technically not impossible if you lived in North Carolina and had a repeater in California, but if you have one on a mountain 20 or so miles away then that is often the case and is "proper." You can have as many as you like as well but causing interference to others systems especially ones that have been up for before yours is not acceptable.

Some ways you as a site operator/trustee or another operator/trustee may close access to their repeater: they do not publish the PL input/output tones, a DTMF code is needed to activate and deactivate, they don't publish the existence of the repeater, or they ask that only authorized users use the repeater. No licensed GMRS user, like amateur radio, owns the airwaves but they can surely own a repeater.

[RADIOGUY2002]

Thanks for providing him/her with more information, yea i'm little lost when he says site. Hopefully, we gave him some defind answers.

[Mirrah]

Sweet, thanks for the info, as for the term "site" I should have given a bit more detail...but you folks hit it on the nose. I wanted to know if my license would cover a repeater and at what wattage would it be restricted.


Do know where I could find the FCC rules on GMRS?

[oldsarge]

Originally Posted by RADIOGUY2002

No, especially after this weeks experenice and a resort that is in violation that has been issued with a notice and has been asked to depart from gmrs. Hopefully they will compily, other wise the next step will be ongoing.

Break down and pay 85.00 for each team member of REACT to support their efforts or get a license that covers everybody group wide, invest the 700.00 dollars for the proper license.

WHAT!!!!! $85.00 NOW?? I paid $80.00 a couple years ago. What gives??

[RADIOGUY2002]

Their is a Yahoo Group that will give you more details on rules and updates. As far as I know your limited to 45 watts to 50 watts on gmrs repeaters. And no higher then 20 feet from the mounting location, read into that anyway you want. Their are numerous gmrs repeaters that sit on roof tops, so think about that when it comes to height requirements.

[N2DLX]

Originally Posted by RADIOGUY2002

Their is a Yahoo Group that will give you more details on rules and updates. As far as I know your limited to 45 watts to 50 watts on gmrs repeaters. And no higher then 20 feet from the mounting location, read into that anyway you want. Their are numerous gmrs repeaters that sit on roof tops, so think about that when it comes to height requirements.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! You're allowed up to 50 watts TPO (Total Power Output [no limit on antenna gain]) on the primary channels (462.550, 462.575, 462.600, etc) and up to 5 watts ERP (Effective Radiated Power [takes into account your antenna's gain]) on the interleaved channels (462.5625, 462.5875, etc) although you can't operate a repeater on the interleaved channels, only the primaries.

On the primary channels there is no antenna height limit, except for the FAA restrictions if you have a tower over 200 feet tall or your tower is close to an airport. If you find a tower that's 1,000 feet tall, you can certainly put your repeater on that as long as the tower follows FAA regulations (aircraft warning lights, red(orange)/white painting, etc.

On the interleaved channels, however, you're only allowed to mount your antenna 20 feet above the ground or the structure it's mounted on, whichever is greater. So if you find a tall building in a city, your antenna can be no higher than 20 feet above the building if you're operating on the interleaved channels (simplex). Remember, no repeaters are allowed on these channels between the primary channels.

Here's a link to the Part 95 rules which govern GMRS (as well as FRS, MURS, CB, etc.): http://www.centraljerseyradio.org/do...t_95_Rules.pdf

[RADIOGUY2002]

Some body didn't have their coffee today, "I said As far as I know your limited to" thats what I read. I meant TPO, and for all you now. He might not even undertsand TPO vs. ERP conpect or theory. I was tring to make it simple for him Rich. TPO is what the physical repeater transmits out at 50 watts in most case, and typical depending on the type being that its UHF its typically 5 watts lower on mobiles and repeaters, 1 watt less then vhf on portables. (TYPICALLY) and ERP is the actual out of the watts of the repeater with the loss in the line plus the gain of the antenna minus the lighting arrestor, etc.

Check out GMRS Outlet LLC for repeater packages for GMRS or NSI Communications GMRS 45W Repeater System with base antenna 9dB gain

Or

Hit up Rich for some stuff or Fireandems13669 ifyou need to have somthing built out.


-This is the rule I caught, and it didn't mention interleaved channels, if you noticed I said that their sites/repeater locations theat are higher the 20 ft rule, so that would already void out the rule in itself on certain frequencies.

On the interleaved channels, however, you're only allowed to mount your antenna 20 feet above the ground or the structure it's mounted on, whichever is greater. So if you find a tall building in a city, your antenna can be no higher than 20 feet above the building if you're operating on the interleaved channels (simplex). Remember, no repeaters are allowed on these channels between the primary channels.

Ouch, Wrong Wrong Wrong, do you have to be so upset over a rule that was not clearily defind somewhere.

[N2DLX]

Originally Posted by RADIOGUY2002

Some body didn't have their coffee today, "I said As far as I know your limited to" thats what I read. I meant TPO, and for all you now. He might not even undertsand TPO vs. ERP conpect or theory. I was tring to make it simple for him Rich. TPO is what the physical repeater transmits out at 50 watts in most case, and typical depending on the type being that its UHF its typically 5 watts lower on mobiles and repeaters, 1 watt less then vhf on portables. (TYPICALLY) and ERP is the actual out of the watts of the repeater with the loss in the line plus the gain of the antenna minus the lighting arrestor, etc.

Check out GMRS Outlet LLC for repeater packages for GMRS or NSI Communications GMRS 45W Repeater System with base antenna 9dB gain

Or

Hit up Rich for some stuff or Fireandems13669 ifyou need to have somthing built out.


-This is the rule I caught, and it didn't mention interleaved channels, if you noticed I said that their sites/repeater locations theat are higher the 20 ft rule, so that would already void out the rule in itself on certain frequencies.

On the interleaved channels, however, you're only allowed to mount your antenna 20 feet above the ground or the structure it's mounted on, whichever is greater. So if you find a tall building in a city, your antenna can be no higher than 20 feet above the building if you're operating on the interleaved channels (simplex). Remember, no repeaters are allowed on these channels between the primary channels.

Ouch, Wrong Wrong Wrong, do you have to be so upset over a rule that was not clearily defind somewhere.

It's not rocket science to look up the Part 95 rules. Sure, it's not the easiest document to read, but the rules are clearly defined when it comes to antenna height and power output. If you don't know for sure, don't say a thing. Too many people don't know about a topic, post what little they know (or think they know) and before long no one knows the truth. Most people think repeaters are illegal on GMRS simply because their Walmart radio doesn't support repeater channels. Many Hams think they can operate on GMRS using their Ham call or no callsign at all, when they have no privileges on GMRS.

I'm not upset, I just hate when people answer questions when they themselves don't know the rules thoroughly enough. If I see something that's egregiously wrong, I correct it.

Where do you get 45 watts out of a 50 watt repeater? Sure you have line loss, but that loss can be 5 watts, 20 watts, or nearly 50 watts. There's no "rule of thumb" when it comes to how much loss your system has. If you plug an antenna right into the transmitter port without a duplexer, you should see nearly a perfect 50 watts.

The reason you see many mobiles advertised as being 45 watts is because if they put out 50 watts on UHF, the current draw would be higher than the matching VHF model. 50 watts on VHF and 45 watts on UHF gives you roughly the same transmit current draw, meaning you can swap VHF and UHF radios without having to worry about the UHF model blowing fuses, drawing too much current from your power supply, or exceeding the wire current capacity.

The same general rules applies with portables. 4 watts on UHF gives you approximately the same current draw as 5 watts on VHF, or 2-3 watts on 800 MHz. If you ran 5 watts out of an 800 MHz radio, the battery would be consumed way faster than the same 5 watts out of a VHF model, voiding any battery life ratings.

[RADIOGUY2002]

"Many Hams think they can operate on GMRS using their Ham call or no callsign at all, when they have no privileges on GMRS"

How is that type accpeted, its not. I think that one would be rather clear, I stated what I read and maintain that. I also provide him/her with a link to group that does these systems on a regular basis. It's not up to a dealer or a seller to provide them with the rules, its an extend prvilage in most cases. They are responsible for their equuipment, unless its lease and their is a clause in a lease contract stipulating who is the actual owner of "said radios", LTR systems. But, thats for another thread and another day, in any case I hope we all provided him/her with good information to go on, thats what is more important at this point.

[N2DLX]

How does it have anything to do with dealers? They asked for information, they didn't contact a dealer and ask..

Also, what does "type acceptance" have to do with Hams thinking they can transmit on GMRS without a license? Type Acceptance covers the radio's transmitter, nothing to do with the license. Some Hams like to use their Ham radios on GMRS (modified) and some also use legal equipment (F21GM for example) while trying to use their Ham callsign or no callsign at all. You won't believe how many people *think* they know the GMRS rules.