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GMRS Discussions related to GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service)

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Old 06-25-2009, 03:59 PM
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Exclamation Midland nailed by FCC - inversion scrambling illegal?

MIDLAND RADIO CORPORATION. Notified Midland of its apparent liability
for a forfeiture of $21,000 for marketing noncompliant GMRS
transmitters. Action by: Chief, Spectrum Enforcement Division,
Enforcement Bureau. Adopted: 06/23/2009 by NAL. (DA No. 09-1390). EB
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-09-1390A1.doc
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-09-1390A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-09-1390A1.txt

Apparently audio inversion scrambling is illegal on GMRS according to the FCC.
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Old 06-25-2009, 04:23 PM
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Exclamation

Oops....posted in the wrong forum section by mistake. Mod(s), please move to the GMRS forum.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:55 PM
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I would be ashamed to put on the dunce hat and admit that my so-called "type acceptance" people didn't do their job? The big question is, "do the radios have an FCC ID number?" And if not, why were they being sold here if they didn't?

Midland says that many Part 95 approved radios have the so called "speach inversion" scrambling. I am almost sure that my Icom F43GT and my two Icom F40GT radios have this capability. Wait a minute, maybe they were approved under a different administration?

Bob
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:31 PM
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I have two Kenwoods that do it as well.

So - is this the start of an industry-wide crackdown or just more "selective enforcement"?
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:11 AM
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My guess is no one gave the Part 95 GMRS cert any thought on Part 90 radios.

Mistakes happen.
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:47 AM
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Well, what are the manufacturers supposed to do? Include code in the radio firmware that says "Don't allow the scrambler to be used on the GMRS/FRS frequencies"?

In theory, I could run AES-256 encryption on the GMRS and FRS channels via an XTS5000. Does that mean that the XTS5000 is in violation of its type acceptance because it CAN do that?


I smell sillyness in the air. It's coming from the FCC offices in DC.


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Old 06-26-2009, 09:23 AM
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That is why an XTS is NOT certified under part 95.

If a vendor CHOOSES to build a radio certified under two different sections, it better meet BOTH sets of requirements.
No encryption on certain channels is not harder then different power on certain channels.
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Old 06-26-2009, 11:56 AM
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Exclamation

My UHF Kenwood NX-300 portables have Part 95 in addition to Part 90. They have audio inversion scrambling in analog and also have NXDN digital (Kenwood's NEXEDGE). What I found interesting is Part 95 is listed for all of the 12.5k and 6.25k NXDN digital modes too. I expected to see Part 95 omitted from the digital emission designators but it is listed for all of them.

Kenwood's NEXEDGE UHF mobiles and the NXR-800 repeater also show Part 95 like the NX-300.
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:40 PM
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Yes, lots of things come with the ability to be used in unlawful ways.

I think the issue is the bubble pack radios come pre-programmed for the consumer with illegal modes enabled.

I wonder if the Part 95 listing for 6.25 digital is an error?
Either a listing error by the FCC or a publication error by ICOM?
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
Yes, lots of things come with the ability to be used in unlawful ways.

I think the issue is the bubble pack radios come pre-programmed for the consumer with illegal modes enabled.

I wonder if the Part 95 listing for 6.25 digital is an error?
Either a listing error by the FCC or a publication error by ICOM?
The Midland radio in question is GMRS-specific, i.e., it isn't type accepted for any other radio service. I agree with you, I think the way the bubble pack radios came pre-prog'd for the consumer likely IS the issue. It will be interesting to watch this case and see how it plays out. I expect Midland to file a response to the NAL and the FCC to issue a response.

The Part 95 listing for 12.5k and 6.25k NXDN digital on my KENWOOD NEXEDGE portables (NX-300) is on the FCC's type acceptance grant. It could be an error by the Telecommunications Certification Body (TCB) lab that did the transmitter tests and filed the paperwork with the FCC on Kenwood's behalf. American TCB, Inc. is the TCB that handled the type acceptance testing and filing for Kenwood.

Kenwood NX-300 FCC ID: ALH378500
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/tcb/...c_id=ALH378500

(Can't be an error by ICOM since they are KENWOOD radios!)
(Also note Icom has 6.25k digital, Kenwood has 6.25k and 12.5k digital)
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Last edited by n1das; 06-26-2009 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das View Post
(Can't be an error by ICOM since they are KENWOOD radios!)
Oops, Brain fart.

Meant Kenwood.
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
Oops, Brain fart.

Meant Kenwood.
It happens. Must have been a senior moment, LOL. :-)

Here's the little "gotcha" in the FCC document regarding approvals by TCBs.

From the Midland FCC NAL document:
Quote:
8. A device equipped with a prohibited capability must be classified as noncompliant
notwithstanding any approval by a Telecommunication Certification Body (TCB).17 We find that the
GMRS devices authorized by the equipment authorizations FCC ID MMAGXT950 and FCC ID
MMAGXT850Z are noncompliant with the requirements of Section 95.183(a)(4) of the Rules.
That would technically make my Kenwood NX-300 portables also non-compliant since what it has on its type acceptance grant issued by a TCB conflicts with Part 95 rules. The same goes for a lot of other equipment on the market. The NX-300 has Part 95 listed for all emission designators, including the NXDN digital modes and the NX-300 also has audio inversion scrambling capability. I found this puzzling however I'm not complaining since Part 95 is specifically listed.

I like Kenwood radios and the fact they specifically had Part 95 listed on the type acceptance grant in addition to Part 90 was a bonus. This was big factor in my decision to go with Kenwood instead of Icom radios for GMRS use. As a GMRS licensee, I don't use bubble packs at all. I only use good commercial radio gear that specifically has Part 95 type acceptance in addition to Part 90.

OTOH, the NX-300 may still be legit because it's a radio that's not normally programmed by the end user. It's usually programmed by a radio shop before use by the FCC-licensed end user(s) of the radio system(s) it will be operated on.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Midland's case. I wouldn't mind if this results in many 22-channel bubble packs being removed from the market but I'm more concerned about what this means for commercial gear that specifically has Part 95 in addition to Part 90.
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Last edited by n1das; 06-26-2009 at 04:08 PM..
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Old 06-26-2009, 04:54 PM
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It would seem that almost any radio can be programmed to be illegal, so that can not be a reason to pull type acceptance.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:41 PM
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Rant mode...

I believe the issue at hand that the Commission is citing specifically was the marketing of the feature that specifically puts it outside of compliance of Part 95.

While your XTS5000 may be capable of being programmed for GMRS and advanced encryption technologies, I fail to see the word "GMRS" and "Scramble or Encrypt" anywhere on the /\/\ product sheets.

As far as "remaining competitive", the same logic could be applied to a pharmacist that sells meth of the side to compete with illegal drug dealers - he simply *had* to sell something that is prohibited by law in order to stay in business. It simply doesn't work that way.

The GXT950 manual states how to use the scramble function, however, does not indentify where it is permissible (GMRS vs FRS). It also states in the details that it is a GMRS radio, not an FRS radio with GRMS capabilities.

Welcome to the world of Midland electronics
Congratulations on your purchase of a high quality MIDLAND product.
Your 2-way radio represents the state-of-the-art in high-tech
engineering. Designed for GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service)
operation
, this compact package is big in performance. It is a quality
piece of electronic equipment, skillfully constructed with the finest
components. The circuitry is all solid-state and mounted on a rugged
printed circuit board. Your two-way radio is designed for reliable and
trouble-free performance for years to come.
...
SETTING SCRAMBLER FUNCTION
Your GXT900/950 Series has a SCRAMBLER function that will change
the sound being transmitted; making it incomprehensible to other user
with different radios . This will to enable you to communicate privately
with other GXT900/950 with SCRAMBLER function.
To turn the SCRAMBLER function on, press the MENU button until the
display shows an “Sc” icon while on the right of the “Sc” display, an “of”
icon appears. Select “on” by pressing the buttons and push the PTT
key or MENU button.
To communicate properly using the SCRAMBLER function, both
radios’ SCRAMBLER function must be turned ON.
To turn the SCRAMBLER function off, press the MENU button until the
display shows an “Sc” icon while on the right of the “Sc” display, an “on”
icon appears. Select “of” by pressing the buttons and push the PTT
key or MENU button.
...

The rules apply evenly, whether it's the imported Weather Station that blasts back on a 2 MHz wide carrier in the middle of the 70 cm Amateur band, blister pack radios that fail to meet deviation specs by having a 20 khz occupied bandwidth, CBs masqueraded around as 10 meter mobiles at truck stops or these Midland radios that have a feature expressly prohibited from use on the GMRS band. It's just nice to _any_ of the rules being enforced; we don't get to choose which ones Fred's Chicken Corner takes a stab at.


Rant mode off
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:55 PM
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All Midland would have to do was to state in the manual that the use of the inversion scrambler while on the GMRS channels might violate FCC rules. Then it would been up to the end user to read the rules and make a decision based on their research.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:57 PM
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I don't think that would cut it.

That would be like having a removable antenna and just saying "Unit must use original antenna only" for FRS.
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Old 06-26-2009, 10:10 PM
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But an FRS unit can't have a removable antenna so it would never be type accepted in that type of physical configuration.
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:58 AM
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Either way, it appears someone at Midland may have failed to complete their due diligence prior to the product making it to market... Just because everyone else (Cobra, Motorola, Kenwood, etc) has an illegal feature doesn't mean you get to have it too LOL...

"..I was just going with the flow of traffic officer..."


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Old 06-27-2009, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KS4VT View Post
But an FRS unit can't have a removable antenna so it would never be type accepted in that type of physical configuration.
And a GMRS unit that is pre-programmed to allow scrambling at the consumers choice should likewise never have been type accepted.
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Old 06-27-2009, 08:17 AM
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Well with that thinking then we shouldn't have automobiles capable of doing over 75MPH either.

At least with the fixed antenna the consumer has no choice except to utilize it in the way it was approved and it is the users option whether to turn the scrambler on or not.

I still stand by my original statement that a single statement noting that the "use of the scrambler may be in violation of Part 95 FCC Rules" would of gotten them out of it being the FCC already approved the radio for sale in the US and the owners manual is submitted as part of the type acceptance.
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