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GRE Scanners - A forum for the discussion of all GRE branded scanning radios and receivers. Whistler branded scanners belong in the Whistler forum.

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2010, 1:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Drafin View Post
Was just hoping for a simple iscan WITH digital...

Still don't see the point of a non digital iscan with all the multitudes of systems either there or headed that way.
The point is this: In the RR DB, less than one third of the talkgroups and only about 2% of the conventional frequencies are digital. The don't-need-digital market is much larger than the digital-required market; there's no reason for the people in the former to pay the premium for something they don't need.
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Old 01-08-2010, 1:46 PM
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uniden is going to release a new scanner at the show that to turn it on, you have to press the off button twice then enter then once again then function and when it asks quick power on you have to press .no
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Old 01-08-2010, 1:57 PM
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uniden is going to release a new scanner at the show that to turn it on, you have to press the off button twice then enter then once again then function and when it asks quick power on you have to press .no


OK guys, lets keep this thread on topic. Discussion only on the current GRE announcement, please.

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2010, 2:00 PM
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I know that the new XT's came out last year Please Read: firmware updates that include Mototrbo and Nexden. A lot of agencies near me are planning on going to either of those for their conventional VHF frequencies. I know that there isn't a lot out there yet, but, as evident in this sticky....there is a need for these to be included in our scanning stables
Larry
Again, Mototrbo is TDMA and I don't think a simple firmware update is gonna cut it when it comes to receiving that. Your best bet is to buy your own Mototrbo radio if that's what you want to monitor, much like hobbyists here have been doing for years now to monitor ProVoice.

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Originally Posted by DonS
The point is this: In the RR DB, less than one third of the talkgroups and only about 2% of the conventional frequencies are digital. The don't-need-digital market is much larger than the digital-required market; there's no reason for the people in the former to pay the premium for something they don't need.
I think that's a misleading statistic. That 2% of the DB covers many large metropolitan areas that are home to millions of people and thousands of scanner listeners. A digital iScan makes perfect sense for those who live in these large urban areas that have gone digital, and especially for folks who travel to these cities regularly. Here in Phoenix is a perfect example. We have a mere 150 or so frequencies dedicated to digital, yet those frequencies are in use by virtually EVERY public safety agency in Maricopa county, a county that is home to roughly 4 million people. Even if only 1% of that 4 million people buys a scanner, that's 40,000 potential customers that GRE could offer this product to. At $400 a whack wholesale, that ain't chump change. Now, multiply that times the number of large simulcast systems and you start to see the real picture - there's a large market out there that's virtually untapped because the only game in town is a radio that requires (to most newbie scanner listeners anyway) a degree in Rocket Science to program. A digital version of the iScan or similar product that wouldn't require a bunch of complicated programming would be a huge hit.

Something to think about, GRE.

-AZ
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Old 01-08-2010, 3:07 PM
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Smile ...and BTW

....and BTW....the technology does exist for many systems that people want to be able to scan. The scanner "makers" however pick and choose what they want to put out there based on what will turn the biggest profit. So it NEVER hurts for folks to voice what they would like to see in a new scanner and also voice the disappointment when the manufacturers don't come through.....
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Old 01-08-2010, 3:10 PM
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The point is this: In the RR DB, less than one third of the talkgroups and only about 2% of the conventional frequencies are digital. The don't-need-digital market is much larger than the digital-required market; there's no reason for the people in the former to pay the premium for something they don't need.

Yes that is true but I know the entire state of NC's VIPER system is supposed to be digital by the end of the year. How many other places that are analog are planning on going digital within 2-3 years? If the iscan type product is supposed to be about ease of use it makes sense that it would be easy for the average Joe to use in the future. Imagine how the average Joe is gonna feel (in my state anyway) when he buys it and then a year from now he can not monitor the local police and fire departments, since that's what he bought it for to begin with. And just that easily you have lost another hobbyist that is not gonna pay for another scanner since the one he has is less than a year old.

BUT to get back on topic has there even been any kind of a whisper at CES of a digital Iscan product or is that all conjecture here with no hard evidence.

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Old 01-08-2010, 3:28 PM
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Hey AZscanner,
You raise some good points, but where are you getting your wholesale cost figures?

Quote: "At $400 a whack wholesale, that ain't chump change."

Radio Crap sold the Pro-197 for $280 to some fortunate scanners buyers. Wholesale has got to be around $250 maximum for digital trunking scanners. Just some food for thought.
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Old 01-08-2010, 3:30 PM
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....and BTW....the technology does exist for many systems that people want to be able to scan. The scanner "makers" however pick and choose what they want to put out there based on what will turn the biggest profit. So it NEVER hurts for folks to voice what they would like to see in a new scanner and also voice the disappointment when the manufacturers don't come through.....
Certainly, but along with our wish lists, let's also be realistic in our expectations. The scanner makers could make a scanner that would monitor every open standard out there, hold a virtually limitless amount of data, have not only built-in wifi but also a sim card slot for mobile GSM or 3G broadband access to RR, decode and display digital television, receive FDMA, TDMA and CDMA, play MP3's from iTunes and power itself for 6 months on a refillable hydrogen fuel cell, but who would buy such a thing at the ridiculous price you'd have to charge for it just to pay for all the R&D required, let alone any vocoder licensing, trunking licensing, FCC authorization, etc, etc.

Let's not forget folks - the scanner manufacturers are in business to make money, so of course they're going to "pick and choose what they put in to maximize profit" - if they didn't, they'd go out of business. Where would you get your whiz-bang quintuple trunking spread spectrum TDMA scanner from then?

-AZ
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Old 01-08-2010, 3:38 PM
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Originally Posted by HancockCountyHal View Post
Hey AZscanner,
You raise some good points, but where are you getting your wholesale cost figures?

Quote: "At $400 a whack wholesale, that ain't chump change."

Radio Crap sold the Pro-197 for $280 to some fortunate scanners buyers. Wholesale has got to be around $250 maximum for digital trunking scanners. Just some food for thought.
That's due to the volume in which RS buys. Most distributors buy in quantities of 10 or 20 units at a time. RS buys in lots of 10 to 20 THOUSAND units at a time. They are just that huge (over 7000 stores to stock).

If you want to buy a GRE radio from a GRE dealer, such as scanner master, they paid around $400 for it, or at the lowest, $350. There's not alot of margin in hardware (that's why I write SOFTWARE for a living).

-AZ
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Old 01-08-2010, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by AZScanner View Post
That's due to the volume in which RS buys. Most distributors buy in quantities of 10 or 20 units at a time. RS buys in lots of 10 to 20 THOUSAND units at a time. They are just that huge (over 7000 stores to stock).
That purchasing power also lets RS dictate certain functionality in the devices to which they'll be affixing their name... things like "analog-only" vs. "digital".
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Old 01-08-2010, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DonS View Post
That purchasing power also lets RS dictate certain functionality in the devices to which they'll be affixing their name... things like "analog-only" vs. "digital".
In other words, "We still have a warehouse/7000 stores full of 106's and 197's, so don't make this thing do digital."

Doesn't surprise me. They killed a few good ideas we had for the Police Call CD's too - like built-in Uniden programming support, for one.

-AZ
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Old 01-08-2010, 3:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AZScanner View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonS
That purchasing power also lets RS dictate certain functionality in the devices to which they'll be affixing their name... things like "analog-only" vs. "digital".
In other words, "We still have a warehouse/7000 stores full of 106's and 197's, so don't make this thing do digital."
No. More like: "We sell far more analog-only scanners than we do digital, so let's see how this overall design is accepted by the market in its cheaper form before we commit to buying and stocking the more expensive device type".
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Old 01-08-2010, 3:55 PM
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Wink Ya think

And does anyone think that the average scanner user cares what the manufactures make or what the investors profit margins are...I don't do you......
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Old 01-08-2010, 3:57 PM
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.....and AZScanner...and DonS...you are BOTH correct......kinda scary...ain't it.....
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Old 01-08-2010, 3:59 PM
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And does anyone think that the average scanner user cares what the manufactures make or what the investors profit margins are...I don't do you......
A lot of people seem to be concerned about that.

It's left as an exercise for the reader to count up the RR posts and threads where people bemoan the "premium" charged for digital scanners and question the rationale for such a price difference.
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Old 01-08-2010, 4:04 PM
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NO ONE is concerned about the profits of scanner makers except scanner makers....period....a;; the average Joe wants...is a scanner that will receive the system close to where he lives....are we done yet?????
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Old 01-08-2010, 4:06 PM
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.....and digital scanners don't need to be more expensive....only because the makers choose to make them be more expensive....they are NO more expensive to make....so why would they be more expensive to buy?????
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Old 01-08-2010, 4:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DonS View Post
No. More like: "We sell far more analog-only scanners than we do digital, so let's see how this overall design is accepted by the market in its cheaper form before we commit to buying and stocking the more expensive device type".
Ah.

Well that makes sense, but only because they screw themselves by not including additonal accessories such as programming cables and software, and by (usually) charging more for their scanners than their competitors do.

Perfect example of this: On radioshack's site RIGHT NOW you can order the PRO-197 for $499 which comes with a mounting bracket, antenna, DIN sleeve and a wall wart (or you can walk into a store and pay $499 plus sales tax for the same thing). Take that same $499 over to ScannerMaster on the other hand, and Rich will send you a PSR-600 with all of the above plus a USB cable and software on CD (it's a demo but still) PLUS you'll have $50 change left over to help pay for shipping so unless you specify Next Day Air First Class Special Delivery by Armed Courier and Singing Telegram shipping at checkout, you save about $40 AND get the same product with extra accessories. Why would you buy from RS other than the convenience of walking into one of those 7000 stores? I might make a walk-in purchase of an analog scanner because those are relatively cheap still, but if I'm buying a digital scanner, I'm buying it elsewhere.

THAT'S why they don't sell as many digitals as they do analogs. And because scanners make up such a small portion of their revenue, I'm betting they really don't lose any sleep over it. Too bad for us.
-AZ
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2010, 4:10 PM
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NO ONE is concerned about the profits of scanner makers except scanner makers....period....
If that were true, we wouldn't have all of the RR forum posts questioning why digital scanners cost 150% (on average) more than analog scanners.
Quote:
.....and digital scanners don't need to be more expensive....only because the makers choose to make them be more expensive....they are NO more expensive to make....so why would they be more expensive to buy?????
They are definitely "more expensive to make". They have additional hardware (DSP, associated circuitry, etc.) and have additional software to support digital operation (e.g. DSP firmware, firmware in a (possibly separate) CPU to talk to the DSP, etc.). They also have potential licensing costs for the P25 vocoder.
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Old 01-08-2010, 4:16 PM
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Wink No

They say they are more expensive to make and everyone believes that. In FACT THEY ARE NOT..The components are all the same as any other scanner......and....they make twice as much on a "digital" scanner. Lots of folks own multiple digital scanners......I have sixteen of then guess how much that cost....get over the cost and finally realize what the process is....okay......
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