PSR-800: System Sites

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LJM1541

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I'm looking for a tweak to improve reception / decoding. I'm missing a lot of TX.

There seems to be a few pockets of dead air in my favorite PD's jurisdiction.... namely my house, certain intersections, etc. on a P25 700 system.

According to the signal strength indicator, even in these deadzones I have 4-5 bars. Other agencies I can receive fine in these same places (even on the same system) With my favorite PD's dispatch talkgroup, I am missing a ton of TX. Never miss their tactical or talk channels, only dispatch.

The RR DB lists four sites. Usually, it seems that most traffic is on the primary site, but not always. (Primary site has 4 LCN freqs.)

Any suggestions as to what I should tweak/play around with?

-Site Options?
-Data decode thresholds?
-DSP Level Adapt?
-Primary site only?

Thanks in advance!
 

W3DMV

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It would really help if we knew your location and the name of
the system you are trying to receive.
Sounds like you are receiving some activity so perhaps the
problem could be some missing talk groups, or tone info..
Also leave us know if your using the rubber duck antenna or
a mobile/fixed antenna with your PSR-800....
 

LJM1541

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Definitely not missing any talk groups. Certain about that. However the system is the East Bay Regional System https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=5317

All of my other scanners have no issue picking up traffic....only the psr 800. (TrunkTracker base, Bearcat handheld)

Ye ol' radio shack 800MHz Rubber duck when mobile....Roof mount at home via BNC to Uhf adapter.
Again, copying all outside of the aforementioned areas on the psr-800.

Possibly getting overpowered by some transmitters beam at home/select intersections. Still, my Uniden gear doesn't seem to be affected when in the same places. It's got me scratching my head.

My GUESS is that it has something to do with:
-Site Options?
-Data decode thresholds?
-DSP Level Adapt?
-Primary site only?

First GRE I've had. Picked it up as a backup. Not too fond of unit so far, but it does sound good. Trying to learn the tweaks. Don't want to spend too much time on it since there seems to be plenty p800 owners here.

Thanks!
 
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SCPD

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Virginia
Possibly getting overpowered by some transmitters beam at home/select intersections. Still, my Uniden gear doesn't seem to be affected when in the same places. It's got me scratching my head.

Not to be the one to tell you this, but I always believe in telling it as it is.

The Uniden scanners are much better in one regard compared to the GRE/Whistler scanners. And you have hit it right on the head of that nail.

They are much more susceptible to the front end being over loaded .. it is well documented on this forum. If you want more info send me a pm and I can tell you what threads to read.

I too have a PSR800 .. and it performs very well. The reason .. I DO NOT put anything more than a duckie on it. Reason, and you have found this out, you are very likely overloading the radio by using an outside antenna. It's resulting performance will decline.

I do blame the manufacturers some .. as they always seem to show this kind of setup in their owners manuals, but the radios often cannot handle the resulting signal.

It is all about the environment that the radio is operated in that will determine how well it will or won't work.
 

troymail

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I've found the best performance through treating each site as a separate system -and- locking out all but the active control channel frequency for each site (only have 1 frequency programmed per site).

Essentially, import the whole system, lock out all but one site, lock out all but the active control channel frequency for that site, and assign all talkgroups to a scanlist.

Then, DUPLICATE the system, lock out all but the next site, lock out all but the active control channel for that site, and assign all talkgroups to a different scanlist.

Repeat the process for all sites you want to program.

This process ensures that loss of sync of the control channel is recovered as quickly as possible since there is only one frequency to check per site/system.

It also give you ability to have the scanner try to scan one or all of the sites as you choose.

Of course, the downside here is that if the control channel frequency changes for any of the sites, your radio could go quite for no known reason.

Also, the way these systems are built these days, you probably should expect to be able to monitor more than the closest and maybe one other site (possibly two depending on your location, site tuning and radiation patterns, and environmental issues). The closest site (or the one you are "in") will probably be the worst due to digital simulcast issues. This could be one case where trying to attenuate the signal(s) may help.

Fixed positioning is best - I have radios scattered all over my house to obtain the best reception for various systems/sites. I have these types of issues with all of my scanners when it comes to digital simulcast - Uniden, GRE, Whistler - doesn't matter. The above procedures and location (could be a matter of inches) make all the difference.

The other thing to consider is that all talkgroups are typically not active on all sites. That's not to say that some could be - but don't assume that to be the case. In fact, some talkgroups may become temporarily active on a given site for a brief period and then inactive for hours - it depends on many factors including where system users on that talkgroup are at any given time and which site their radio affiliates with. In some systems, some talkgroups are designed only to be active in certain sites (situation where it is known that users on that talkgroup will be generally stationary or remain in a very small area that is encompassed by a given site.
 

rwier

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PSR-800: System Sites

I've found the best performance through treating each site as a separate system -and- locking out all but the active control channel frequency for each site (only have 1 frequency programmed per site).

Essentially, import the whole system, lock out all but one site, lock out all but the active control channel frequency for that site, and assign all talkgroups to a scanlist.

Then, DUPLICATE the system, lock out all but the next site, lock out all but the active control channel for that site, and assign all talkgroups to a different scanlist.

Repeat the process for all sites you want to program.

This process ensures that loss of sync of the control channel is recovered as quickly as possible since there is only one frequency to check per site/system.

It also give you ability to have the scanner try to scan one or all of the sites as you choose.

Of course, the downside here is that if the control channel frequency changes for any of the sites, your radio could go quite for no known reason.

Also, the way these systems are built these days, you probably should expect to be able to monitor more than the closest and maybe one other site (possibly two depending on your location, site tuning and radiation patterns, and environmental issues). The closest site (or the one you are "in") will probably be the worst due to digital simulcast issues. This could be one case where trying to attenuate the signal(s) may help.

Fixed positioning is best - I have radios scattered all over my house to obtain the best reception for various systems/sites. I have these types of issues with all of my scanners when it comes to digital simulcast - Uniden, GRE, Whistler - doesn't matter. The above procedures and location (could be a matter of inches) make all the difference.

The other thing to consider is that all talkgroups are typically not active on all sites. That's not to say that some could be - but don't assume that to be the case. In fact, some talkgroups may become temporarily active on a given site for a brief period and then inactive for hours - it depends on many factors including where system users on that talkgroup are at any given time and which site their radio affiliates with. In some systems, some talkgroups are designed only to be active in certain sites (situation where it is known that users on that talkgroup will be generally stationary or remain in a very small area that is encompassed by a given site.

I agree with all of the above except:

" ... locking out all but the active control channel ... "
I enter both the CCs and the ACCs and get basically perfect reception of complex simulcast, multi-site TRSs. Therefore, a change in the CC goes unnoticed.

" ... assign all talkgroups to a different scanlist ... "
Sum Ting Wong with that statement. Simply rename the DUPLICATED System first thing. When finished editing (deleting unwanted Sites and unwanted TGs) assign the TGs to the Scan List/s of your choice.

Along with the above, for myself,"DSP Level Adapt" settings and "Data Decode Thresholds" settings were instrumental in "tuning in" the overall quality of TRS monitoring.
 

LJM1541

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I agree with all of the above except:
Along with the above, for myself,"DSP Level Adapt" settings and "Data Decode Thresholds" settings were instrumental in "tuning in" the overall quality of TRS monitoring.

Thanks to both of you. (RWier & Troymail)

Regarding the DSP Levels and Site Data Decode Thresholds.... Is there a best practice to determine these settings? Restated, the default setting for DSP is 64 or so.... lowering this get's me a solid "T". Raising it get's me a flashing "T". (When monitoring a single talk group.....not when scanning)

The defaults for the Site's Data Decode on the primary is between 75 and 95..... BUT between 88 and 95 for the three other sites.

Again, any prescribed method to determine the best rates or is it a trial and error scenario?

Thanks!
 

rwier

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Thanks to both of you. (RWier & Troymail)

Regarding the DSP Levels and Site Data Decode Thresholds.... Is there a best practice to determine these settings? Restated, the default setting for DSP is 64 or so.... lowering this get's me a solid "T". Raising it get's me a flashing "T". (When monitoring a single talk group.....not when scanning)

The defaults for the Site's Data Decode on the primary is between 75 and 95..... BUT between 88 and 95 for the three other sites.

Again, any prescribed method to determine the best rates or is it a trial and error scenario?

Thanks!

I started out testing different DSP (64) settings, making changes 1 at a time. I didn't know if one direction was best, so I vacillated such as: 65, 63, 66 62, 67, 61. After making each setting change, I sent the new programming to the scanner, I would listen to a single, powerful site (multi site, simulcast system) , that is normally very active, and listen for as long as it took to subjectively decide "better or worse".

Probably around ~70, it became clear that going up was worsening reception. Going lower, I wasn't sure of any difference until about 55. Then there was a gradual improvement as the settings went lower. I didn't notice reduction until ~45. So I took the average of (~)70 and (~) 45 and set the DSP at (~) 57. I believe charting these results would have plotted as a very shallow "sine wave".

Next, leaving the DSP at 57, I started raising the upper DD (95) setting by 1. I could detect no difference up to 99. So I reset it to 95, and started lowering the lower setting (75), 5 at a time, such as: 70, 75, 70, 65. I could detect no differences until somewhere around 30-35. I thought there was a small improvement, so I continued downward. Finally settled on what I thought was a barely detectable DD best (very low profile "sine wave") at 15.

I than went back to the DSP, and started working both ways (up/down) from 57, by 1. Wow, the profile of the "sine wave" had heightened noticeably. Noticeable changes with changes of 2. Easily found the at sweet spot at 52. When I sent DSP 52 and DD 15/95 to the scanner, the listening results were simply unbelievable.

Before doing this testing, the longest the scanner would "lock on" a transmission was about 10 seconds, with most dropping out before 5 seconds. Now, there seemed to be no time limit on the length of lock on. A few minute+ transmissions were decoded without missing a single syllable!

What's missing in the above narration, is the time involved! Spread over about 30 days, the above testing probably took more than 30 hours.

Over the 3+ years since then, a have read maybe two posts here stating similar testing, and they came up with considerably different results. About the same number reported simply using my numbers and enjoying the improvement. The "sweet spot" probably depends on many factors, such as TRS System, location, antenna, etc.

That being said, I have determined, to my own satisfaction, that the primary determining factor in successful monitoring of any system, digital, trunked, analogue, simulcast, multisite, etc., is the strength and quality of the signal, measured where the antenna attaches to the scanner. This can be tested OBJECTIVELY using the "E" analyzation features of the HP-1 (E).
 

icarus1963

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If the system you are listening to is a multi site, simulcast system another trick on the 800 is to enter each tower site as its own system. Enter in your main site closest to you, and enter any neighbor sites that are associated with that tower. Doing this method you don't have to worry about the data decode levels. I have my DSP level set to 16. Currently I am following the Bell Fleetnet Provincial VHF system (Motorola Type II SmartZone) in Ontario Canada. I have 10 towers listed this way but mostly listen to just my closest local tower.

Andy
 
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