RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > U.S. Regional Radio Discussion Forums > California Radio Discussion Forum > Greater Los Angeles & Inland Areas Discussion

Greater Los Angeles & Inland Areas Discussion Local area specific discussion for Los Angeles and its outlying areas such as Ventura and Orange Counties, and the Inland Empire area.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2013, 12:27 PM
LAflyer's Avatar
Global DB Admin
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,046
Default Canadian Super Scooper's are back

In anticipation of brush fire season, pair of water bombers leased from Quebec by Los Angeles County Fire Department are back. The pair of aircraft know as the 'Super Scooper's' capable of carrying 1,600 gallons of water are based at Van Nuys and operational as of Thursday.

Utilizing callsign Quebec 1 & 2 they are scheduled to remain in SoCal through October at cost of $5.2mil.

A few years ago I ran across a posting of the air-air frequency these guys were using for comm's. Anyone have that?

=
Attached Images
 

Last edited by LAflyer; 08-16-2013 at 12:35 PM..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2013, 12:53 PM
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Diego County, California
Posts: 1,766
Arrow

Quebec Super Scoopers at Van Nuys Airport
Flew in on Tuesday August 13th at 2pm

For those people with Mode-S receiver. You can set up the alerts each time it flies doing the fire season.

QUE241 - C-GQBC (ModeS:C06F05)
1995 Canadair CL-215-6B11 CL-415 C/N 2012
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...400Z/KLBL/KVNY
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QUE241

QUE242 - C-GQBD (ModeS:C06F06)
1995 Canadair CL-215-6B11 CL-415 C/N 2016
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...400Z/KLBL/KVNY
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QUE242

http://flightaware.com/live/fleet/QUE
http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/CL2T

Last edited by MtnBiker2005; 08-16-2013 at 12:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2013, 7:52 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 1,740
Default

I remember a great verbal battle between Super Scooper pilots and a Cal Fire Airboss during that large fire in Burbank years ago...the CalFire Airboss kept ordering them back to base an hour before Sunset and they kept ignoring him.....then an LAFD command ship got involved saying he was in charge of the SuperScooper under helitac. Of course, half of it involved the thick Quebec accents.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2013, 9:33 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Palm Springs Area & Orange Co.
Posts: 712
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAflyer View Post
In anticipation of brush fire season, pair of water bombers leased from Quebec by Los Angeles County Fire Department are back. The pair of aircraft know as the 'Super Scooper's' capable of carrying 1,600 gallons of water are based at Van Nuys and operational as of Thursday.

Utilizing callsign Quebec 1 & 2 they are scheduled to remain in SoCal through October at cost of $5.2mil.

A few years ago I ran across a posting of the air-air frequency these guys were using for comm's. Anyone have that?

=
Nice pics LaF !
__________________
I cut it three times, and it's still too short !
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2013, 12:45 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North of Rock, South of Hard Place.
Posts: 211
Default

Last year, one of the pilots spoke only French.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2013, 2:55 AM
spectr17's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: CA
Posts: 163
Default

Haven't seen the flying bananas out yet.

Freaking pilots who can't speaka da Engrish when working ATC. I watched the Italian Tricolor team pull a 5 ship fly by of the tower at Ramstein AB in Germany and few years before their big crash there. But it wasn't a typical fly by, they came at the tower from 5 points on the compass and pulled up right before the tower. Scared the crap out of tower peeps. We saw them coming from a rooftop perch where we were watching the arrivals for Flutag and tried to warn out buddies in the tower but too late. Later in their practice that day they almost crashed two jets, the move where the 2 jets come at each other on the deck in a game of chicken and pull out at last minute. I told my partner that day they would be on the news some day for a bad crash and it wasn't long. Most of them spoke no English and the flight lead, who is supposed to be able to, wasn't very understandable either.
__________________
~spectr17

Uniden BCD396XT
San Bernardino CA East Valley Live Scanner Feed
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:27 AM
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Diego County, California
Posts: 1,766
Arrow

The two Super Scooper's heading back to Canada this week.

Leaving California on Monday March 31, 2014.

http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/CL2T

QUE241
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...600Z/KVNY/KICT

QUE246 (C-GQBI) (ModeS: C06F0B) (It was only in California since March 15th, 2014)
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...600Z/KVNY/KICT

and

QUE242 - Went back to Canada on March 17th, 2014.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...530Z/KVNY/KICT
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2014, 2:31 AM
Uplink's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles County
Posts: 405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAflyer View Post
In anticipation of brush fire season, pair of water bombers leased from Quebec by Los Angeles County Fire Department are back. The pair of aircraft know as the 'Super Scooper's' capable of carrying 1,600 gallons of water are based at Van Nuys and operational as of Thursday.

Utilizing callsign Quebec 1 & 2 they are scheduled to remain in SoCal through October at cost of $5.2mil.

A few years ago I ran across a posting of the air-air frequency these guys were using for comm's. Anyone have that?

=
LA Flyer, They use 129.800, when they are here in town, but you have to know French.
Also, here is a freq card from the cockpit, likely used when they are back up north.
Attached Images
 
__________________
BCD396XT | BCD996XT | PRO-136 | BC9000XLT| BC898T
Santa Clarita Valley, CA Live Scanner Feed
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2014, 10:16 AM
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Diego County, California
Posts: 1,766
Arrow

Heads Up!
They're heading back down in the next few days for Van Nuys, California

http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/CL2T

QUE245
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QUE245

August 29 - Quebec/Jean Lesage Int'l (CYQB) to MBS Intl (KMBS)
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...230Z/CYQB/KMBS

August 29 - MBS Intl (KMBS) to Wichita Mid-Continent (KICT)
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...700Z/KMBS/KICT

and

QUE246
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QUE246

August 29 - Quebec/Jean Lesage Int'l (CYQB) to MBS Intl (KMBS)
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...230Z/CYQB/KMBS

August 29 - MBS Intl (KMBS) to Wichita Mid-Continent (KICT)
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...700Z/KMBS/KICT
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2014, 8:16 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mojave Ca
Posts: 352
Default

Hello All: I suspect that the use of the Canadian Super Scooper's airplanes is a indication that we are low on operational aircraft needed to fight fires. Wondering if there are any new aircraft or planes for newer or better aircraft to replace the aging existing aircraft?

Setting at the Fox Field Airport in Lancaster Ca, watching the U.S.F.S. fire fighting aircraft taking off and landing is a real sight with watching the older aircraft, they should charge admission in the Restaurant there.

Listening to the Forest Service is hit and miss from my experience. I like listening to the Air Boss or Air Supervisor calling the shots, coordinating during a fire, from a observation airplane. This job calls for A person to think outside the box and way past your nose. Dealing with other pilots as to where to make a water drop, Helo's, Ground Crews. And Forest Management telling they needed equipment and personal needed for the next day and such.

All these activities DO NOT happen on the same frequency, but the Air Drops, Helo's, Ground Crew (Bulldozers) Chiefs, and Forest Service Management traffic are on different frequencies, and is quit a task to track all these frequencies down. When I was wanting to listen to all of it I used three Scanner radios, one to scan the FS channels, one scanning the aero band. and the third scanner on a single frequency listening to the Air Boss or Supervisor talking to all the other airplanes.

Writing down the frequencies and programming these "HOT" frequencies into a bank into the scanner radio, was a big help the next day as some frequencies where used and some had been changed. The new bank of frequencies was great indicator as to if the same or other frequencies where used.

I have experienced The U.S.F.S., LAFD, and others who support fighting the fire, sometimes use channels / frequencies not in a data base or list for fire fighting use. Its very impressive how well the different agencies get along with each other, well done...

Jay in the Mojave
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2014, 11:38 AM
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Diego County, California
Posts: 1,766
Arrow

Coming to California on Saturday

The scoopers are Tankers #245 (C-GQBG) and sister ship #246 (C-GQBI).

30-Aug-2014 - Wichita Mid-Continent (KICT) to Santa Fe Muni (KSAF)
QUE245 - http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...400Z/KICT/KSAF
QUE246 - http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...400Z/KICT/KSAF

30-Aug-2014 - Santa Fe Muni (KSAF) to Van Nuys (KVNY)
QUE245 - http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...730Z/KSAF/KVNY
QUE246 - http://flightaware.com/live/flight/Q...730Z/KSAF/KVNY
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Today, 10:44 AM
Exsmokey's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On a map: the right side of California
Posts: 2,992
Default

Before I retired and was still going on fires I worked with some L.A. County FD firefighters on a couple of fires on the Angeles NF. They were battalion chiefs, engine and crew captains. Their opinions of the "Super Scooper" were not at all positive. Firefighters called the planes "Pooper Scoopers." Their use is mostly due to politicians who want to make a big show. They dump water and when it evaporates there is nothing to stop the fire from moving right through the drop zone. When retardant is dropped it stops or slows a fire after it dries. This is why areas ahead of the fire and some distance from the active flanks "get painted." The water drop turnaround might be quick , but frequently operations personnel want to wait for retardant instead. There are retardant bases at Fox Field, San Bernardino and Goleta which makes their turnaround time pretty short.

Aircraft don't put fire out, they are being used to slow them down so that the ground crews can contain and control the fire. They do the long, dirty mop up job that puts the fire out. During mop up helicopter bucket drops are used to get water into places where it is difficult to deliver water. Given the lack of air tankers currently, the role of helitankers is greater than ever. Helitankers can drop retardant from portable reload facilities set up close to the fire. Single engine air tankers (SEATs) drop retardant and have quick turn around times due to their smaller tanks. They carry about 66% of the load Cal Fire's S2 aircraft carry.

The public, media and politicians tend to place more emphasis on the role of aircraft in wildland firefighting. The Pooper Scoopers look pretty sexy and can put out small piles of burning lumber on level ground. Spending 4.5 million for them is very excessive and the money could be spent better elsewhere.

Fire department and agency personnel are often publicly criticized for not wanting change and criticizing new technology. The politicians made some closed office threats at fire departments to use the scoopers or else. When it comes to aviation engineers, manufacturers and politicians are adamant that they know better than firefighters with boots on the ground. Funny how their experience and observations don't count for much when aviation decisions are made.

The U.S. Forest Service has been left more or less alone when it comes to aviation. They have been widely criticized by the aviation industry, some attention getting politicians an the media. When I started with the Forest Service we were using 30+ year old aircraft and the agency new that new aircraft were needed. The agency made their concerns known and asked for the budget to do something about it. The pleas were ignored. Some aircraft were dropping retardant when they were 50 years old. There are some DC-7 and DC-3 aircraft that were used in the last 10 years. The reports that the Forest Service have prepared in relation to the air tanker problem are available on line. The details in those reports are not widely reported and the aviation industry has criticized them. I think there is a strong probability that the industry has an agenda that is not to the benefit of the overall situation.

The ultimate solution is for a retardant aircraft designed for retardant dropping only. The design costs and manufacturing costs would be very high as the number of aircraft would not offset these costs. The USFS once had 44 heavy tankers under contract and that has been reduced to as low as 8. The president recently ordered that 17 C-130 aircraft be transferred from the U.S. Coast Guard to the Forest Service. Older C-130 aircraft, some used by the CIA, who refused to give the USFS maintenance and use records, were dropping out of the sky just after the turn of the century. I worked on the Cannon Fire near Walker, California where the wings on a C-130 broke off, barely avoiding some homes and a business, then crossed over U.S. 395 before crashing into a vacant lot. All aboard were killed. I believe all the C-130s were grounded for an extended period of time and I can't remember if they stayed out of service for good. Eventually all of them were removed from use.

The Coast Guard C-130 aircraft have been manufactured more recently and their use and maintenance records are readily available. I can't remember if it's going to take 2 or 3 years to retrofit them for retardant use. There are more air tankers under contract this year as more "next generation" aircraft come on line.

I'm retired and haven't rubbed shoulders with L.A. County FD people for more than 10 years. I would like to hear their opinions now.
__________________
Started out as a "donnowhatiwannabe," moved on to a "wannabe," became "abe" and now I'm a "wasabe."

Last edited by Exsmokey; Today at 10:49 AM.. Reason: clarity
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Today, 11:18 AM
Exsmokey's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: On a map: the right side of California
Posts: 2,992
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMojave View Post
Hello All:
All these activities DO NOT happen on the same frequency, but the Air Drops, Helo's, Ground Crew (Bulldozers) Chiefs, and Forest Service Management traffic are on different frequencies, and is quit a task to track all these frequencies down. When I was wanting to listen to all of it I used three Scanner radios, one to scan the FS channels, one scanning the aero band. and the third scanner on a single frequency listening to the Air Boss or Supervisor talking to all the other airplanes.

Writing down the frequencies and programming these "HOT" frequencies into a bank into the scanner radio, was a big help the next day as some frequencies where used and some had been changed. The new bank of frequencies was great indicator as to if the same or other frequencies where used.

I have experienced The U.S.F.S., LAFD, and others who support fighting the fire, sometimes use channels / frequencies not in a data base or list for fire fighting use. Its very impressive how well the different agencies get along with each other, well done...

Jay in the Mojave
On federally managed fires NIFC can authorize temporary use of unused frequencies of other agencies specific to the area of the fire. These will be used for large and extended incidents. They come from all ranges in the federal VHF band. So 162 to 174 is the large range you have to search to find them.

VHF-AM frequencies are authorized by the FAA annually and most are used for initial attack. NIFC contacts the FAA for temporary authorization for extended incidents. The initial attack frequencies are used as little as possible when it appears that initial attack is developing into an extended attack.

VHF FM air to ground and tactical frequencies are often drawn from the all agency list of unused frequencies. New assignments are made during the night shift to be included in the day shift plan. As a result they are not announced over the air. The AM and FM air operations frequencies changes are often made during day shift and are announced over the air. Each aircraft is polled to see if they copy the change. When an incident is growing you have to listen carefully for these announcements or else you will be listening to quiet channels quickly. The Air Tactics Group Supervisor (ATGS) is advised of the change by the local communications center and that supervisor then makes the announcement to the aircraft on scene and if some air tankers are on a load and return run they are advised when they return to the scene. The unit ID for the ATGS is "Air Attack" plus a number as it arrives on scene and that is changed to 'Air Attack" followed by the name of the incident.

Someone posted how they used three handhelds when listening to a fire. I own three handheld scanners, but one is an old BC-35 whose batteries are hard to charge. I enlist my amateur radio handhelds for the single frequency monitoring. Sometimes I have four handhelds going. I always stay far away from the incident so I don't impede the operation and cause traffic problems. This is just as well as if you are in a crowd people end up asking you so much about your radios and what is being heard that you can't keep track of anything. If you are out and about to listen to a fire PLEASE give thought of parking well away from the incident.
__________________
Started out as a "donnowhatiwannabe," moved on to a "wannabe," became "abe" and now I'm a "wasabe."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 9:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2011 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions