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Harris / MA/COM / GE / Ericsson Forum For general discussion of MA/COM EDACS and ProVoice systems, including equipment.

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Old 06-02-2009, 10:21 PM
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Its official. We are now Harris RF Communications.
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:25 PM
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So when do new radios (existing models) start shipping with the new Harris logos?

I want to update my 7100s immediately with the new versions.


Elroy
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:36 AM
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I'll work on getting the forum name updated.
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:04 AM
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So it'll read...


GE/Comnet-Ericsson/Ericsson/M/A-Com/Harris ????

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Old 06-03-2009, 02:31 PM
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We just received back some radios from the repair shop. They came with M/A-COM front displays originally and last week the returns came with Tyco Electronics front displays. lol
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:21 PM
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The names in order:
General Electric (GE)
Ericsson-GE
Ericsson
Commnet/Ericsson
Commnet
M/A-Com
M/A-Com division of Tyco
Tyco
Harris

Meanwhile, Motorola was, is, and possibly always shall be Motorola.

I like Motorola's radios best of all, in general, but firmly believe that good competition results in better
products from everybody and better customer service from everybody. Harris is a top notch
organization that truly can compete head to head with Motorola in many fields, and I see NOTHING
negative about this change of affairs.

My prediction is that Harris will not pursue the proprietary system formats that M/A-Com has pushed for some years now. Harris is more likely to aim straight at full interoperability and retire the proprietary
formats (OpenSky, ESK, ProVoice, and EDACS) in the normal course of system upgrades and push
their customers toward P25 and beyond. I do think Harris will support those proprietary legacy
formats and technologies for a reasonable period of time to come, but I think that they now have a
limited remaining lifespan.

Elroy
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElroyJetson View Post
Meanwhile, Motorola was, is, and possibly always shall be crap.
went ahead and fixed that up for you


Quote:
Originally Posted by ElroyJetson View Post
My prediction is that Harris will not pursue the proprietary system formats that M/A-Com has pushed for some years now. Harris is more likely to aim straight at full interoperability and retire the proprietary
formats (OpenSky, ESK, ProVoice, and EDACS) in the normal course of system upgrades and push
their customers toward P25 and beyond. I do think Harris will support those proprietary legacy
formats and technologies for a reasonable period of time to come, but I think that they now have a
limited remaining lifespan.
i agree and disagree, i think existing systems wont be going away anytime soon becuase most organizations are happy keeping what works instead of spending more money right now...
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:50 PM
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Default What does this mean for multiband?

I have been following some of the RR multiband conversations for months. I would think that this is a daggar through the heart of Thales and certainly is going to cause Moto to wish that they had gone for all three bands instead of just two in their APX (although that was a business decision so that they can keep their entire line artificially inflated)

The Harris full-spectrum multiband (Unity) should get some really good traction now that they have the entire M/A-Com sales force with them. Since 2010 is the year of the multiband Harris is looking like the radio to beat.

Thoughts?
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Old 06-04-2009, 07:32 PM
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Default Multiband... I can't resist.

I bet moto is busy redesigning the APX 3 band model. Now it will be triangle shaped, have 6 knobs, 3 antennas and a joy stick. Battery life of 50 minutes and stereo speaker mics.

Cost of $11,000.00 plus software and the saddest thing...some government schmuck will buy hundreds.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flecom View Post
went ahead and fixed that up for you



That is entirely unnecessary, absolutely incorrect, highly unprofessional, and very immature of you.


I've had a lot of radios made by both Motorola and GE/Macom/whatver over the years, and while both companies have made some real errors, both have also made some real winners, too.

The only M/A-Com portables that have stood up to Motorola's portables were the ones in aluminum housings. M-PAs and M-PDs. They're tough enough. They perform well. But give me a Saber,
instead. Or an XTS. For mobile radios, you can't beat a Syntor X9000, or a Rangr or Delta. They're
top quality, all of them. I'm not as impressed with Spectras, or with Orions. They all have their issues.

If I have my choice of either a Motorola portable or a M/A-Com portable when either will do the job,
and I have total freedom of choice among any model available, I'll take an XTS5000 over absolutely
anything in the M/A-Com catalog. I have a perfect VHF 7100IP, full system model, with EVERY
possible option, and for amateur use I reach for my XTS5K model 1 because it's a better radio.

For mobile radios, my two favorites are an X9000 with A7 control head and a Rangr with S825 control
head, if the large control head size doesn't create an installation problem.

Portables? Motorola is better. (Top models suitable for public safety) Mobiles? It's about a draw,
but when I installed a radio in my car, I went with Motorola because the A7 control head fits perfectly
IN the dash of my car, right under the AM/FM radio. (DIN size head fits in the DIN sized slot.)

If the dash had more depth available to it, I could have installed an Orion in there. I still could, if I went
to a remote head configuration, but I didn't, since I don't have a VHF Orion.

My opinion of which radios are better has been formed by having used them for many years. When I started
playing with radios, HT220s were still in production, I think. It's been 30 years since I took my first little steps
into the big world of radio, and over and over through all those years I've seen Motorola leading with
the best radios of the time and GE trailing, a distant second, with radios that are good, sometimes
equal, sometimes maybe a little bit better, but usually rather clunky and well behind the times,
technologically speaking. It wasn't until the M-PD that I started to see an improvement in the pace of
GE's technology improvements.

Nobody has yet made the perfect portable radio. But the XTS5000 is FAR closer to that goal than the
7100IP is.

The best I can say for my own 7100s is that they're the survivors of a larger lot that I repaired
and that mostly failed again fairly shortly. Motos that I fix, STAY fixed. I'm not so impressed with the rate of repeat failures on the 7100s. I certainly am not impressed with their method of construction.

Water damage is more common than it should be. But the RF gasket on the frame is a delicate piece of
garbage that is easily damaged just by taking the radio apart. And then it will leak. The main gasket
is nearly as bad. And the screw seals are atrocious. Proper weatherproofing of a typical 7100 by
rights should involve a needle tip on a tube of silicone caulk and lots of patience. I am not impressed,
and do not permit my own 7100s to get rained on because I do not trust the seals at all.

Granted, Sabers have their broken frame issues. But it's typically caused by untrained "technicians"
who don't have the torque reading screwdriver and correct spanner bit and don't know the manuals'
torque specs and/or don't pay attention to them. If torqued TO SPEC, the frames don't break.

For outright ruggedness, so far very little has been any better than a mere HT600, if equipped with the
control flex retainer. I've seen them survive things I'd have never bet a portable radio could survive,
including several intentional full force throws into concrete walls. Most radios may survive that for one
or two shots, but ten? An M-PD won't survive that. Been there, tried it. The HT600 lasted longer
under the same abuse-until-dead torture test.


Motorola? Crap? I hardly think so.


Elroy
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElroyJetson View Post
Granted, Sabers have their broken frame issues. But it's typically caused by untrained "technicians" who don't have the torque reading screwdriver and correct spanner bit and don't know the manuals' torque specs and/or don't pay attention to them. If torqued TO SPEC, the frames don't break.
I don't know if you're aware but a standard handcuff key fits the battery plate nuts and so it's the officers themselves that are over-torquing the plates, at least the ones I'm dealing with. That or they'll stuff the radio in their back pocket and then sit on it. Of course these are corrections officers and in my experience they are the hardest on their equipment.

But you are absolutely correct, Elroy. Each radio should be rated on its own merit for its intended application and the user itself. Both Motorola and GE/etc. have put out great radios and real stinkers, but if I had to choose one brand name over the other I'd choose Kenwood.
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:35 PM
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It's interesting that you'd say Kenwood. The main lines I see where I work are Icom and Kenwood. By number, we deal with, and sell, FAR more of those than any other brand.

There are several parts that are common breakage items on Kenwoods. Antenna jacks are an extremely common failure item. Jack-type accessory connectors are a common failure item if the customer is
using accessories such as speaker/mics. If left uncovered, water intrusion through the jacks is fairly
commonplace. Housings break. Battery latch assemblies launch into outer space. These are all
common repair items. I stock knobs, antennas, housings, accessory jacks, and antenna jacks in
fairly high numbers for the TK260/360 series, TK260G/360G series, TK2100/2200 series, and TK2160/3150 series. Of these, only the 2160/3160 series is still a current product. The battery latch
system on the 2160/3160 is a brilliantly engineered double locking system that can be defeated by
anyone with a 1/16" long thumbnail. Hand me the radio and you'll think the battery just FELL off,
I can get it off so fast.

The newer 2202/3202 and 2302/3302 series looks awfully nice but I've seen the highest new radio failure
rate I've EVER seen out of a new radio product in my own admittedly limited experience. Every time
I ship out ten to a customer, I expect to be sending one back for factory service inside of six weeks.

Kenwood's software is erratic as heck. There are some titles that simply will not properly read from
and write to a radio on ANY desktop computer I have in the shop. But they work just fine on any
laptop. Figure that out!

Kenwood's radio alignment software is OK but not great. It's about equal to Motorola CPS tuner
software. But, Kenwood radios typically are aligned dead on in every parameter. Power and modulation
are dead on in most every case. So I don't typically have to mess with the alignment software.

Icom, on the other hand, well, their software works on everything, all the time. Absolutely troublefree.
The radios have the simplest and fastest alignment procedure I've ever seen. It takes just seconds to
set power and deviation, which are typically set about 20 percent below specs from the factory.

Common repair items on Icom portables are antenna jacks, accessory jacks on radios where they
are jacks rather than surface connectors, and LCD displays on some radios if they're in rough service.
The radio housings generally outlast Kenwood housings and I don't stock as many spares for Icoms
even though I've got more Icoms in service.

Of course everybody goes through knobs and antennas and volume/power controls and rotary channel
selectors. I don't see that as a quality issue on any brand. It's a "gorilla in a suit" issue.
(My description of my average customer.)

Most importantly, it's almost unheard of for me to have to send an Icom radio back for factory service
under warranty. They just don't break very often unless they're physically beaten up.

I would definitely say that Icom's portable radios are more durable than Kenwood's portables. If they
were equally durable I'd say they're equal quality radios, but that's not reality as I see it. I say Icom
makes the better portable radio based on my own direct experiences.

Is Kenwood making junk? No. Definitely not. But I see more warranty repair issues on new Kenwoods
by far, than Icoms. The ratio is at LEAST ten to one, and we sell and service roughly equal numbers
of both brands.

Would I recommend Kenwoods? Yes...certain models. But I'd recommend ANY current model of
Icom radio.

Elroy
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Old 06-22-2009, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElroyJetson View Post
That is entirely unnecessary, absolutely incorrect, highly unprofessional, and very immature of you.

blah blah


Motorola? Crap? I hardly think so.


Elroy
oh no! immaturity on an internet message board?! SAY IT AINT SO!!!

anyway, to me, no matter what, motorola will always be crap, even if they make a mentally controlled radio that has a 20 day battery life and puts out 30kw from a handheld into a magic rubber duck antenna with 30dbd of gain, its still crap, becuase i dont want to pay a billion dollars for the stupid software to program the damn thing every time they change their mind about a product line

remember, motorola, you can buy better, but you cant pay more!

would you like to buy some paint? (i know you have gotten that email at least once lol)
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