Harris UNITY

[el_pichirulo]

Today I played with one of the new Unity's and I think they have a good resourceful product. The "talk-as-one" sale pitch was somewhat very informative.

We even discussed an addition of EDACS in their Unity line. Now that is impresiive if they can accomplish this.

Anybody else have evaluated this unit?

[ElroyJetson]

I can't really think that Harris will add EDACS to the Unity line. It really would be a step backwards for them. The future is P25, and EDACS is a legacy format that, although still reasonably popular, is definitely beginning to fade. It would be counterproductive for Harris to add EDACS to their most modern
radios. They want to encourage their customer base to RETIRE their EDACS systems and migrate to
P25, and it's harder to do that when EDACS is well supported in the newest radios.

Planned obsolescence guarantees that you won't seen an EDACS capable Unity radio.

Elroy

[JungleJim]

Edacs is dying but not due to technical inferiority, it's proprietary nature or even the cancer of "interoperability". The simple fact is you have to follow the money. Most government agencies are using federal grant money these days to expand and update their communications as their revenue from property and sales taxes dwindle. The grants (mostly homeland security) specify that the equipment must be P25 compliant for interoperability. If you gotta buy it, you may as well use it.

Ericsson originally wanted to avoid P25 and focus on EDACS EA and provoice but when the Feds mandated that all their systems would go the route of P25 they had a change of plan and decided to get on the boat and not get left behind. The states and locals are now doing the same. I forsee everyone going the route of P25. In the end, you won't have much choice.

Paranoid conspiracist point: The feds are forcing everyone to go P25 and then they'll take it over and form a national police force to override the state's sovereignty.

[EnidPuceflange]

Originally Posted by ElroyJetson

I can't really think that Harris will add EDACS to the Unity line. It really would be a step backwards for them. The future is P25, and EDACS is a legacy format that, although still reasonably popular, is definitely beginning to fade. It would be counterproductive for Harris to add EDACS to their most modern
radios. They want to encourage their customer base to RETIRE their EDACS systems and migrate to
P25, and it's harder to do that when EDACS is well supported in the newest radios.

Planned obsolescence guarantees that you won't seen an EDACS capable Unity radio.

Elroy

From a commercial standpoint, this is nonsense. Remember we're not talking about Moto here - fork-lift "upgrades" from EDACS to P25 are not the way they work. Look at what happens when you obsolete something like this (3600 baud Smartzone) - you open up the bid so ANYONE can bid against you. Much smarter to support the existing system, and to allow that at some time in the future you COULD update to the open standard.

And as JungleJim says, that allows you to still get the grant money, without having to actually change anything.

[EnidPuceflange]

Originally Posted by JungleJim

I forsee everyone going the route of P25. In the end, you won't have much choice.

Paranoid conspiracist point: The feds are forcing everyone to go P25 and then they'll take it over and form a national police force to override the state's sovereignty.

I just had to comment on this - sorry

The future is NOT ever more narrowbanded radios using finer and finer slivers of spectrum. P25 is the LAST of the FDMA/TDMA standards that there will be. The future is broadband - look to cellular, and the convergence of cellular phones and internet service, wifi and wimax. Voice is one part of what first responders do, but there's MUCH more. Look at how the backhaul for these systems has changed over the last 10 years - EDACS and Smartzone use circuit switching, technology from the early days of analog telephones, but now it's ALL packet switched IP networks. The only part of the system that remains circuit based is now the RF channel - and that will change.

[ElroyJetson]

Traditional push-to-talk two-way radio technology has proven surprisingly resistant to change. There was, is, and possibly always shall be a demand for SIMPLE point to point radio communications that are NOT
part of a larger network.

In my shop, one of our growth areas of the radio business has been taking customers OFF of the Nextel
systems, AND off of the county EDACS system, and putting them on short range radio-to-radio simplex
or repeater systems. They LIKE having their own truly PRIVATE radio network, not sharing it with
other users, and not having to pay a usage bill to a central authority. It's been a matter of pride to
me that I've taken a small county-affiliated agency off the trunked system, put Icom UHF portables
in their hands, and had nothing but positive comments from them over how much simpler and better
this system is than being a customer of the county EDACS system.

Granted, their UHF system wouldn't be suitable for public safety usage, but I'd argue, the EDACS
county system isn't really suitable for the needs of a small, highly localized special services group
like the one in question. They only need communications within a small campus, but they need
it to be reliable, dead simple to use, and always available.

The need for simple radios won't be going away any time soon. I think the two way radio as we
know it these days will be with us for quite some time to come.


Elroy

[flecom]

Originally Posted by EnidPuceflange

From a commercial standpoint, this is nonsense. Remember we're not talking about Moto here - fork-lift "upgrades" from EDACS to P25 are not the way they work. Look at what happens when you obsolete something like this (3600 baud Smartzone) - you open up the bid so ANYONE can bid against you. Much smarter to support the existing system, and to allow that at some time in the future you COULD update to the open standard.

And as JungleJim says, that allows you to still get the grant money, without having to actually change anything.

wow someone who can think and hasent been brainwashed by /\/\otorola!...

couldent have said it better myself

[mancow]

So, let's hear some more about the radio instead of arguing over what nobody has any chance of changing.

I would like to see one in person and get some sort of idea what the cost will be.

[flecom]

pics here

http://www.rfcomm.harris.com/talkaso...R_Brochure.pdf
Harris Unity XG-100 Full-Spectrum Radio for Federal, State and Local Agencies

pricing is still a mystery... its quite a sexy radio... hopefully it lives up to the harris name...

having VHF/UHF/700/800 in a portable package with a top mounted LCD and a giant color lcd on the front is very, very nice... if it had 900 in there too i would have no choice but to call and beg them to sell me one lol

[el_pichirulo]

From my 35+ years involved with "rf radio toys", I was extremely impressed with it. Even though I did not put them on a service monitor, I liked what I saw. The display menu functions are very well thought-out, knobs and buttons were designed with public safety in mind.

My complaints were; the antenna was around 20" long, but they are designing a shorter multiband, the belt clip too small, even though made out of metal, I think it should be bigger. It's basically smaller in lenght and width than a standard XTS2500 clip. Lastly the battery looked EXACTLY like the 7100/7200 series radio. I did take my 7250 battery and snapped it in the Harris and powered-up, the rep said it was different. This may create two issues, we who use the 7100/7200 radios know the battery life sucks and if in fact is different according to what the rep said, then it may create an industry chaos for us that have the current charging units. You don't want Officer John Doe inserting the wrong battery in the wrong charger.

After the final revision has been completed, and after putting it though personal tests, I would consider selling some of my daily usage radios and purchasing the Harris. For my to say that shows that they have a good product out there. As for price, the discussion was practical to what the radio can do. I am paying around 3500 for any flavor Motorola XTS5000r's with a a bunch of features and accessories. The price on the Harris is less than buying two XTS's.

Again this unit is not for everyone, it should be seriously considered if a tactical deployment response where communications is your primary mission, then it's justified.

[kayfox]

I was told about $6,500 (probably Canadian) as a price for the -004 model.

[w0fg]

Originally Posted by kayfox

I was told about $6,500 (probably Canadian) as a price for the -004 model.

Given the current pricing for XTS5000s and 7100/7200s, that sounds about right.

[flecom]

Originally Posted by el_pichirulo

Lastly the battery looked EXACTLY like the 7100/7200 series radio. I did take my 7250 battery and snapped it in the Harris and powered-up, the rep said it was different.

maybe it was a lithium battery? that would definately help battery life... another huge issue with the 7100 is that the PA always has power even if the radio is off... so if you leave the radio with the battery on it (even off) it will drain the battery fairly quickly... stupid design on their part

[HarrisRF]

P25 and EDACS PV are nearly identical in nature. As a matter of fact the only difference in a Harris EDACS PV system and their P25 system is the sitepro and radio code. Not knowing anything about the Unity radio, im willing to bet EDACS will be available even if its just so we can say "yes, we can".

we'll see.....

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by HarrisRF

P25 and EDACS PV are nearly identical in nature.

I am not sure I would phrase it that way.

EDACS and EDACS IP infrastructure is very different, but EDACS IP and P25 IP is very similar.

On the subscriber side there is plenty different, but a software defined/software controlled radio capable of 25 shoddily be able to handle EDACS PV fairly well. (if not perfectly).

[HarrisRF]

If all you know is GE, Ericsson, Macom radio systems then they are very close. I thought about rephrasing it for about 5 minutes, but then i figured i was spending too much time on something miniscule anyway. hehe