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Harris / MA/COM / GE / Ericsson Forum For general discussion of MA/COM EDACS and ProVoice systems, including equipment.

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Old 12-08-2012, 9:07 PM
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Default XG-100 Basic programming for P25 800MHZ

Would anyone be able to provide me with basic information on how to set up a P25 trunked 800Mhz system on the radio for receive only operation? I use VHF and UHF (Med Channels) for my primary work, but would like to monitor the trunked system in my market also.
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Old 12-10-2012, 5:04 AM
   
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Default Xg-100

I am also interested in learning how to program my xg-100 for recieve p25 only.
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Old 12-10-2012, 2:44 PM
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The trunked systems you refer to are probably similar to or exactly the same as those used with Motorola equipment. That being the case, unless the system administrator permits you to do so you will not be permitted access to the trunked system. If you should acquire the system key and your radio is not authorized there's a good chance that the sys admin will stun/kill your radio which would mean it has to back to the shop for a reset and you'll be asked what/how this happened to your radio, plus it'll cost you money for the fix. If you're not authorized to monitor a trunked system using a transceiver get a scanner and stay out of trouble.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:27 AM
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While the Unity does support receive only talkgroups, it also requires registration/affiliation before it will unmute. Unless the radio is allowed on the network, I don't think I would risk such an expensive radio getting inhibited.
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Old 12-13-2012, 6:32 PM
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The radio WILL receive the system WITHOUT registration.. It will listen to the CC and start receiving as soon as it hears a talkgroup thats in your scan list.. That is a wive's tale that sales folk used to tell the customer but in fact it is not true.. As for the "System Key" needed to program the radio... Not so with a TRUE P25 radio.. Harris is a TRUE P25 radio... You only need the Programmer / RPM software, cable and the system info in order to program the system..Only the Bat wings needs a key on P25.. Kinda kills the meaning and reasoning for an open architecture and interop operations..

I have programmed many Harris radios for receive only with NO transmit function enabled
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Old 12-13-2012, 6:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcr_inc View Post
The radio WILL receive the system WITHOUT registration.. It will listen to the CC and start receiving as soon as it hears a talkgroup thats in your scan list.. That is a wive's tale that sales folk used to tell the customer but in fact it is not true.. As for the "System Key" needed to program the radio... Not so with a TRUE P25 radio.. Harris is a TRUE P25 radio... You only need the Programmer / RPM software, cable and the system info in order to program the system..Only the Bat wings needs a key on P25.. Kinda kills the meaning and reasoning for an open architecture and interop operations..

I have programmed many Harris radios for receive only with NO transmit function enabled
Our demo radios refused to unmute until we allowed them to register. This was a few firmware versions back, so this behavior might have been a "bug"

As for system keys, its not just Motorola requires a system key, EFJ, Kenwood, Thales and most others require a key. In fact, several systems (including one large statewide system in the southeast) that are looking to put harris radios on the network are requiring them to implement a system key before authorizing the radios on the network.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:19 PM
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RPM has a few wide-area P25 systems in it that require a key to program. The ARMER system and another I can't think of will ask for a license key to be entered if you enter the correct WACN/SID. So there is something in place similar to Moto but it appears to be by request only.
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Old 08-12-2013, 7:41 AM
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So an XG 100 CAN monitor something like the Bucks County 500mhz system?
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Old 08-12-2013, 8:21 AM
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As long as it's between 380 MHz and 520 MHz and the radio is feature enabled for that band, yes.
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Old 08-12-2013, 8:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dcr_inc View Post
Harris is a TRUE P25 radio...
What makes a radio a "true" P25 radio? I hear this kind of thing from Harris people all of the time, but I never hear a good definition to go with it and what makes their radios "full" or "true" P25 while others are not.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:27 AM
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What makes a radio a "true" P25 radio? I hear this kind of thing from Harris people all of the time, but I never hear a good definition to go with it and what makes their radios "full" or "true" P25 while others are not.
No kidding. I use P25 radios from every vendor that support 9600 trunking and they all sound digital to me...but I digress.

The XG-100 platform is a great tool for those who need it, but while Harris is touting it as their P25 Interoperability solution, they refuse to enable EDACS or OpenSky. This baffles me as the radio would be a better tool if it supported those other formats...but then they can't sell me another single band radio with those options, can they?
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:29 AM
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The use of a system key DEFEATS the purpose of P25.. It figures that Moto would muddy the water just to make more $$$ for a superficial useless item..The ONLY reason EFJ and Kenwood require a key is because they have to in order to compete with the Bat.. Luckily, Harris can read and comprehend the P25 specs and follow them to provide a level playing field
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:32 AM
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A TRUE P25 radio is one that is designed and operates to the APCO P25 specs.. Moto and few others claim P25but they are only P25 compatible, not COMPLIANT.. A TRUE radio will not require a special KEY in order to operate on a P25 system.. It will do all of the required APCO functions as specified in the APCO P25 specs..Moto does NOT..They are compatible not Compliant as is a Harris radio
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Old 08-13-2013, 3:55 PM
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I wish that they'd offer Type II Motorola trunking as a format on the XG-100 platform. It would save us a few headaches during our switch from Type II to P25. As of now, we're going to have two separate radios in each vehicle, one for each system, until the migration is complete.
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Old 08-13-2013, 4:59 PM
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Quote:
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No kidding. I use P25 radios from every vendor that support 9600 trunking and they all sound digital to me...but I digress.

The XG-100 platform is a great tool for those who need it, but while Harris is touting it as their P25 Interoperability solution, they refuse to enable EDACS or OpenSky. This baffles me as the radio would be a better tool if it supported those other formats...but then they can't sell me another single band radio with those options, can they?
sorry but your wrong on the XG-100 has EDACS enable in them. here in Reno Nevada the fire department carry's and they are working, on are county wide EDACS system. i have seen them.
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Old 08-13-2013, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcr_inc View Post
A TRUE P25 radio is one that is designed and operates to the APCO P25 specs.. Moto and few others claim P25but they are only P25 compatible, not COMPLIANT.. A TRUE radio will not require a special KEY in order to operate on a P25 system.. It will do all of the required APCO functions as specified in the APCO P25 specs..Moto does NOT..They are compatible not Compliant as is a Harris radio
The programming software system key ONLY affects radio programming of that brand of subscriber. It does NOT prevent the use of radios from other vendors on a system.
Now, there IS a feature called link layer authentication that will only allow pre-configured radios on the system. The radio requires an initial "touch" to put a encryption key (nothing to do with voice encryption) in that then helps validate the radio when it affiliates to the system in a challenge-response process. This IS a P25 standard (TIA102.AACE).

Last edited by Thunderknight; 08-13-2013 at 5:49 PM..
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Old 08-13-2013, 9:18 PM
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sorry but your wrong on the XG-100 has EDACS enable in them. here in Reno Nevada the fire department carry's and they are working, on are county wide EDACS system. i have seen them.
You're talking about the XG-100m, right? I understand that EDACS will never appear in e XG-100p with the current hardware platform.
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Old 08-13-2013, 9:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcr_inc View Post
A TRUE P25 radio is one that is designed and operates to the APCO P25 specs.. Moto and few others claim P25but they are only P25 compatible, not COMPLIANT.. A TRUE radio will not require a special KEY in order to operate on a P25 system.. It will do all of the required APCO functions as specified in the APCO P25 specs..Moto does NOT..They are compatible not Compliant as is a Harris radio
Remember that P25 is a standard of interfaces. It does not describe an 'interface' for a system key, therefore the use or emission of a system key is no more a P25 standards issue than is the use (or emission) of a display on a radio.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:14 AM
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You're talking about the XG-100m, right? I understand that EDACS will never appear in e XG-100p with the current hardware platform.
i cant say with 100% on it being the XG-100m, i just know there the XG-100 Radio i seen them and. there nice moble radios, i will look at them to see if its the XG-100m or the XG-100p

Last edited by xts3000r; 08-14-2013 at 12:20 AM..
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Old 08-15-2013, 1:32 PM
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i cant say with 100% on it being the XG-100m, i just know there the XG-100 Radio i seen them and. there nice moble radios, i will look at them to see if its the XG-100m or the XG-100p
M and P are designators for Mobile and Portable.
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