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Harris / MA/COM / GE / Ericsson Forum For general discussion of MA/COM EDACS and ProVoice systems, including equipment.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2013, 5:03 PM
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Default Programming beginner

Hello all,
After giving up on trying to program the old school bct8 scanner. I decided to buy a M/A-COM P5100 MAHM-S8RXX (only $70.00 W/ radio,battery,&charger), so I figured I'd give this a chance. I also have programmer and a programming cable. I am new to programming EDACS systems. I've only programmed motorola p25 radios.
I have confirmed that the talk groups I want to listen to are analog, I know this radio is capable of scanning. I don't want to transmit, just scan. My question is, What exactly will I need. do i have to just know the frequencies or do i have to know the LCN or whatever that order is called? what other info will I need to be able to listen to PD Dispatch, FD Dispatch, FD Tac's, ECT.
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Old 09-27-2013, 5:16 PM
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I decided not to start a new thread since it has to do with the same issue. I just got everything set up to program this radio. finally get it read when the message tell me that I need a new version. I have ProgrammerR18. Here's the info on the radio. Idk if its needed but here it is anyway:
DSP VER:F4R06M05
FLSH VER: J2R18F04
PERS VER:65.00
Does anyone know what I can do or where I could get the software? any information would be nice.
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Old 09-27-2013, 5:33 PM
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In general the radio personality needs to be read with a version at least as new as that used to program it. It have been a very long time since I have used Programmer as everything I have done in the last many years has been with Radio Personality Manager. Either way I would attempt not to read the radio but just build your personality, save it and then write it to the radio. If that doesn't work you will need to get a current version of RPM (currently on 10) from Harris.

With that said, I REALLY discourage what you are trying to do. If I were to see a radio attempt to affiliate on my system that didn't belong it would be bricked in a heartbeat. The same is true for most other system admins so be damn sure that it doesn't transmit ever to include not affiliating.
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Old 09-27-2013, 6:08 PM
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So even though I'm just wanting to program it to receive only, would that still pose an issue? I have no desire to transmit as I'm not allowed to on this system, I just want to hear the local fd dispatch and tac channels.


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Old 09-27-2013, 6:12 PM
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How are you going to make it receive only? How are you going to prevent it from affiliating? What are you going to enter for a LID?
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Old 09-27-2013, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisasterGuy View Post
How are you going to make it receive only? How are you going to prevent it from affiliating? What are you going to enter for a LID?
Harris radios can be set to not affiliate but still receive (as long as the traffic is on the site). It's very different than Motorola.

Last edited by Thunderknight; 09-27-2013 at 6:22 PM..
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Old 09-27-2013, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
Harris radios can be set to never affiliate. It's very different than Motorola.
I understand that it is possible, I am just trying to impress on the OP that he needs to be very certain that he is doing so and doing it in a fool proof way.
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Old 09-27-2013, 6:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisasterGuy View Post
I understand that it is possible, I am just trying to impress on the OP that he needs to be very certain that he is doing so and doing it in a fool proof way.
I agree.
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Old 09-27-2013, 6:53 PM
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CCEMS253, to answer your question, it looks like the radio was last programmed with RPM because it has a PERS VER of 65.00. Look through the other past threads for one that talks about downgrading to programmer. You will need to downgrade the software in the radio so you can use Programmer. Only thing is, that you make sure you have the files before you start to downgrade.

There are other options as well, you could spend the money and get RPM, or send the radio to a radio shop to have them downgrade or program your radio.

Last edited by MECS_1947; 09-27-2013 at 7:06 PM..
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Old 09-28-2013, 7:04 PM
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RPM costs about 2500 dollars.

Just FYI.

Every talkgroup must be individually set to NO TX and no calls.

And, be SURE that emergency functions are disabled. Particularly and especially the emergency button. (Button assignment menu)

In power up options, auto login must be disabled.

As for a logical ID, on a radio that doesn't auto login (won't affiliate) and doesn't have a single TX
enabled talkgroup, it doesn't even matter. Pick a number.
EDACS takes IDs up to 16382, I think.

Odds are that the highest numbers, near the max, are not in use. But don't get TOO close to the limit.

I'd say 16,300 and above are PROBABLY not used by any assigned radio.

Please be aware that if your radio DOES transmit into the system without authorization, you can get
in a LOT of legal trouble. LOTS of it.

As a matter of personal operational security, when your program is finally set up and working to your satisfaction,
remove the Revision menu from the radio so that no worthless, nosy suckup from the fire department can find your programmed ID
and report it in hopes that it'll make brown nose points with somebody in the radio management division.

As long as your radio BEHAVES like a scanner, being totally unable to transmit, you're OK and no law says otherwise.

Trying to find an ID that's not in use has a certain logic to it. Duped IDs can be bad if the "legitimate" user of that ID tries to send
or receive a private call.

There's also always the slight chance that the system polls to see what radios are active, too. If it polls your ID number, and two
radios respond, that can cause interest.

Unfortunately I know of no way short of disabling the transmitter which can keep the system from stunning your radio if the command
to stun (or remote monitor) your radio is sent by somebody who knows your LID.

So you keep your LID secret and accept the possibility that no matter what you do, some day your radio may be unresponsive and
stunned. In which case you just reprogram it with a different randomly chosen ID. You'll be good again for an undetermined period of time.



You need to create your trunked frequency sets with CORRECT site ID numbers.
You need to create your talkgroup sets.
You need to connect them together in the system setup screen.

Start simple by creating a conventional channel set and hooking it up in the system setup screen.
Then save the file. It won't let you save a non-workable file.

Check out your radio's system/talkgroup capacity and be aware of it while creating your file.
If your radio has, for example, 128 talkgroup capacity, you have to know that every selectable
talkgroup in the radio counts toward the 128 group capacity EVEN if the same talkgroup is repeated
in different systems.

As an example, I created a talkgroup list of 40 talkgroups which represents a combined talkgroup list fo ror a specific agency,
regardless of what site I'm listening to. It's a master list I made rather than go to the extra effort of making a customized list
of talkgroups for EACH of the four sites in the system.

Since they never re-use a talkgroup number for a different purpose on a different site, there was and
advantage to just creating a single master talkgroup list and connecting it to each site's trunked channel list as four separate systems.

Those 40 talkgroups on 4 systems count as 160 talkgroups.

I could probably save some talkgroups by making custom lists for each site individually, and deleting,
for example, the north site only talkgroups from the east, west, and south site talkgroup lists.

But I choose not to do that as I have plenty of talkgroup capacity in my radios and it's easier to manage
a smaller number of talkgroup lists. (My main radios has 65,535 talkgroup capacity.)

If you don't know your radio's talkgroup capacity, you can view it if your radio has the features menu enabled.

If the features menu is enabled, it'd have to be reprogrammed first, with the features menu turned on.

Be aware, very few shops will program system info into your radio unless you have a letter of
authorization from a responsible authority allowing you to get this done.

Last edited by ElroyJetson; 09-28-2013 at 7:12 PM..
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Old 10-01-2013, 6:27 AM
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How do you input trunking frequencies with the site I'ds and will if improperly set will this cause the radio not to lock onto the set?
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:02 PM
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Seek and ye shall find.

Trunking frequencies go into the trunked frequency sets. Yes, the order of frequencies is very important for EDACS systems. An error results in missed calls. The more errors, the more calls you will miss.

I BELIEVE that the RR database is set up so that edacs system frequency lists ARE set up in the right order.

The site number is entered in the system setup screen, EDACS tab, near the upper right corner.
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Old 10-02-2013, 3:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisasterGuy View Post
I understand that it is possible, I am just trying to impress on the OP that he needs to be very certain that he is doing so and doing it in a fool proof way.
if you're really worried about it open up the radio and remove the hybrid pa module, ptt and emergency buttons...
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Old 10-02-2013, 8:53 PM
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Isn't it easier to just be careful with the software settings rather than performing surgery on a new radio?

Elroy was very specific, and correct I would add, about what settings and options to use so the radio would not transmit.
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Old 10-02-2013, 9:09 PM
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I find it easier to just zero out the TX PA adjustment and Data Deviation. If it does get pinged or ProFiled, it will try to key up but no (extremely low) RF will get out. Below a certain point in the TX Power setting the PA seems to just give up and shut off. When i set my P7100 to lower than 10 the service monitor couldnt pick up anything over ambient noise from it. YMMV, but it is a quick, easy and reversible change to keep your radio/scanner in the clear.
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Old 10-02-2013, 9:54 PM
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like I said, depends how worried you are
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Old 10-03-2013, 7:18 AM
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I've never even read any documentation on ProFile. I PRESUME that it's over the air programming?

If the radio is listening to a ProFile enabled system but ProFile is turned off in the radio, can the system still reprogram the radio?
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Old 10-03-2013, 7:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElroyJetson View Post
I've never even read any documentation on ProFile. I PRESUME that it's over the air programming?

If the radio is listening to a ProFile enabled system but ProFile is turned off in the radio, can the system still reprogram the radio?
Yes, ProFile is OTAR for EDACS. Yes, the radio can be set not to allow ProFile. ProFile is not what disables a radio though, that is done through the CSD.
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Old 10-03-2013, 7:39 AM
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All of your points are spot on except for this one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElroyJetson View Post
RPM costs about 2500 dollars.
The current list price for the package consisting of RPM, ProGrammer and Device Manager Basic is $550.00 and the annual maintenance is $400.00
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Old 10-03-2013, 7:06 PM
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I'm guessing that's the price for CONVENTIONAL RPM.

The shop I work for bought the trunking version of RPM and it cost 2500 bucks.

Additional license seats are 100 bucks each, though.

If trunking RPM is really 550 bucks now the my boss has 1950 reasons to be very angry.
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