Archon
Member
What is the Open Sky system? The city of Milwaukee Is going to slowly only the Police data terminals are using it now but eventually The police calls and DPW are going to be on it.
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What is Open Sky System
- Thread starter Archon
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Archon said:
It is a type of trunking system. Without boring you with the details since they don't really matter....no scanner can monitor this system. Scanners can't handle the trunking protocol, nor can the decode the digital voice. M/A-COM has no plans to license the technology to scanner manufacturers, so you'll be SOL.
Sorry.
In Pennsylvania, the system is being rolled out at the state level...for the last 10 years or so.
Also, an agreement between the US and former USSR that requires that
weapon system destroyed in accordance with the SALTs/STARTs be dispalyed in the
open for a period of time so as to be viewed by each others sats.
Why it was chosen for a radio system name is beyond me!
weapon system destroyed in accordance with the SALTs/STARTs be dispalyed in the
open for a period of time so as to be viewed by each others sats.
Why it was chosen for a radio system name is beyond me!
D
DaveNF2G
Guest
I've participated in system bids where OpenSky was proposed. Honestly, it looks GOOD on paper, and works GOOD in demos. I'm not 100% certain why it's developed such a poor reputation, but I'm not convince that it's all bad. I think in time they'll work the bugs out. It'll still be unmonitorable, however, for a variety of reasons.
Having once been associated with a potential customer, and having seen the sales pitch, it's no surprise that some agencies are buying it. I think some will actually be happy with it, eventually. It's not an inherently unsound concept.
Having once been associated with a potential customer, and having seen the sales pitch, it's no surprise that some agencies are buying it. I think some will actually be happy with it, eventually. It's not an inherently unsound concept.
Open Sky Is Open Perfect
It along with its little sister Pro Voice is actually a "Perfected" Digital radio system. The problem that agencies have is not a MACOM Open Sky/Pro Voice related problem it's that there radio admin's degrees come from an era of macs with green being there only font color and Windows B.C. and as of now there is no single agency that can afford to purchase a FULL working system that is soley designed tor Open Sky. They are just using old EDACS technology with some cables that are different colors and some adapters to assist in being Open Sky like (yes i am being very facetious but if i really explained it we'd be here all night). It's like macom took all the best digital "cell" phone technology, made it better about 25 years beyond what technology is today and put all the perfect "cell phone hardware features" into a radio system. I too have seen the sales pitch and walked along the valley's of scanner death with this radio system. This technology is so advanced that it has even got the fed's and the FCC re-thinking the whole Project 25 deal. Which is as of right now is Motorola's only hope in stay afloat in major public safety radio systems. The current system admins are becoming alcoholics trying to figure out which RF cable goes where and what a "digital A.M.O.S. link sequence is". Give it a few more years for the new generation to graduate and get hired on and you'll see a dramatic increase in the metropolitan areas that pick up Open Sky. The potential problem that this technology has is that most agencies cant afford the kind of system admin it would take to fully launch and maintenance this system. Ultimately what I'm sure will happen is MACOM will become the "Dell" of radio systems and will walk there lesser educated and lower paid system admins remotely on troubleshooting and maintenance, and once the MACOM tech support guy (which like most call center companies will be located in the Philippine's) gets tired of talking someone through a system that cant even spell Open Sky they'll just send one of there 24 hour on call techs to do the job for him and charge the department $500.00. (I need to quit hanging around my MACOM intern buddies)
It along with its little sister Pro Voice is actually a "Perfected" Digital radio system. The problem that agencies have is not a MACOM Open Sky/Pro Voice related problem it's that there radio admin's degrees come from an era of macs with green being there only font color and Windows B.C. and as of now there is no single agency that can afford to purchase a FULL working system that is soley designed tor Open Sky. They are just using old EDACS technology with some cables that are different colors and some adapters to assist in being Open Sky like (yes i am being very facetious but if i really explained it we'd be here all night). It's like macom took all the best digital "cell" phone technology, made it better about 25 years beyond what technology is today and put all the perfect "cell phone hardware features" into a radio system. I too have seen the sales pitch and walked along the valley's of scanner death with this radio system. This technology is so advanced that it has even got the fed's and the FCC re-thinking the whole Project 25 deal. Which is as of right now is Motorola's only hope in stay afloat in major public safety radio systems. The current system admins are becoming alcoholics trying to figure out which RF cable goes where and what a "digital A.M.O.S. link sequence is". Give it a few more years for the new generation to graduate and get hired on and you'll see a dramatic increase in the metropolitan areas that pick up Open Sky. The potential problem that this technology has is that most agencies cant afford the kind of system admin it would take to fully launch and maintenance this system. Ultimately what I'm sure will happen is MACOM will become the "Dell" of radio systems and will walk there lesser educated and lower paid system admins remotely on troubleshooting and maintenance, and once the MACOM tech support guy (which like most call center companies will be located in the Philippine's) gets tired of talking someone through a system that cant even spell Open Sky they'll just send one of there 24 hour on call techs to do the job for him and charge the department $500.00. (I need to quit hanging around my MACOM intern buddies)
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Tommahawk
Member
Open Sky: A radio system built by a company that is proud of its failures. How about a system that was supposed to be online and running in Lancaster County PA back in 2005 and now the county has a lawsuit pending against the manufacturer for its failure to work as coded......
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Funny when I checked Lancaster county I saw this : http://www.lcwc.co.lancaster.pa.us/lcwc/cwp/view.asp?a=7&q=531023&tx=1
Open SKY 800mhz ! but you posted on 12-13-2007 that they scraped the system and where going 500mhz : http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87135
I also saw this on Lancaster's website : http://www.lcwc.co.lancaster.pa.us/lcwc/cwp/view.asp?a=7&q=471635
So they are going 800mhz Open Sky , you may have sour grapes but there is nothing official anywhere that says the system failed...or not from the powers at be. I see you have said on another forum that you where told by someone yet the county has towers up and running ????
Rumors and innuendos or do go around picking fights like this : http://www.lancasterfire.com/board/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000396
Some of the Mods better look into this guy !
Open SKY 800mhz ! but you posted on 12-13-2007 that they scraped the system and where going 500mhz : http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87135
I also saw this on Lancaster's website : http://www.lcwc.co.lancaster.pa.us/lcwc/cwp/view.asp?a=7&q=471635
So they are going 800mhz Open Sky , you may have sour grapes but there is nothing official anywhere that says the system failed...or not from the powers at be. I see you have said on another forum that you where told by someone yet the county has towers up and running ????
Rumors and innuendos or do go around picking fights like this : http://www.lancasterfire.com/board/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000396
Some of the Mods better look into this guy !
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Update
Boy, I hate to stick up for Joe, but....
If you check, you will see your first link is old info, posted 3/13/2007. More recent info is at http://www.lcwc.co.lancaster.pa.us/lcwc/cwp/view.asp?Q=539829&A=7
updated 10/22/2007. It says "The committee is not satisfied that the system as it currently operates today, is operationally effective for daily public safety use." The Open Sky system was put on the shelf soon after that.
There are a lot of things which will not be posted due to the attorneys being involved (I wouldn't say lawsuit just yet). The problem is that M/A-Com promised they could build the system with less towers if the VTAC was deployed. They missed deadline after deadline to fix the VTAC interference issue, loss of communication during constant tower switching, and other issues. The folks here are not going to throw more money at a company with poor responses to our requests. No, Motorola is not a sure thing, because they don't work much better and they cost about 2x as much. It is possible that M/A-Com will wake up and propose a plan B, P25 simulcast or whatever, which does not involve Open Sky. T-band is a possibility, but not a sure thing. Don't look for any quick decisions when the attorneys are involved.
Boy, I hate to stick up for Joe, but....
If you check, you will see your first link is old info, posted 3/13/2007. More recent info is at http://www.lcwc.co.lancaster.pa.us/lcwc/cwp/view.asp?Q=539829&A=7
updated 10/22/2007. It says "The committee is not satisfied that the system as it currently operates today, is operationally effective for daily public safety use." The Open Sky system was put on the shelf soon after that.
There are a lot of things which will not be posted due to the attorneys being involved (I wouldn't say lawsuit just yet). The problem is that M/A-Com promised they could build the system with less towers if the VTAC was deployed. They missed deadline after deadline to fix the VTAC interference issue, loss of communication during constant tower switching, and other issues. The folks here are not going to throw more money at a company with poor responses to our requests. No, Motorola is not a sure thing, because they don't work much better and they cost about 2x as much. It is possible that M/A-Com will wake up and propose a plan B, P25 simulcast or whatever, which does not involve Open Sky. T-band is a possibility, but not a sure thing. Don't look for any quick decisions when the attorneys are involved.
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Sorry but again until I see the county ( guys who write checks) say it's over then I'll believe it. Frankly I found the same link you posted on several PA radio websites with people who posted that there was no truth to that. I mean no offense to you or Joe but again nothing official posted means there is nothing official( if it's in litigation then it could still be settled ) Anyway thanks for the insight.
Tommahawk
Member
1268;
Lancaster County is one of those counties where they don't want to talk about it. Tonight (Friday February 29th) they are going to announce to the Lancaster County Fire Line officers the status of the system during the Annual Officers Training weekend.
At 1930 hours this evening reprsenatives from LCWC including the Director Michael W Weaver and Operations Manager Rick Harrison will fill the County Fire Chiefs in on what I already know.. I might not have all the details but damn skippy I know that what I am saying is absolutely true. The new system will not be Open Sky at all!
I have heard that due to the pending lawsuit that the lawyers for the county have basically placed a gag order on those in power and that is why you don't hear more about it.
If you really must hear it from the government first thats up to you, but if you want the truth maybe you'll listen to individuals that actually have some knowledge of the system. I've spoken to and had the Open Sky system demonstrated to me and I have more than just a passing glance at the system.
You are probably still waiting for the government to protect you from threats foreign and domestic aren't you? Well you keep on waiting till the government sounds the all clear and I'll continue to load the shells into my weapons.
But when I go to the Lancaster County Commissioners meeting this week I'll let you know more on the system. I was told that I didn't have my facts straight about the cost of the system either, now there are some very red faced County government officials that know that I wasn't bluffing when I brought out the real facts & figures........
Lancaster County is one of those counties where they don't want to talk about it. Tonight (Friday February 29th) they are going to announce to the Lancaster County Fire Line officers the status of the system during the Annual Officers Training weekend.
At 1930 hours this evening reprsenatives from LCWC including the Director Michael W Weaver and Operations Manager Rick Harrison will fill the County Fire Chiefs in on what I already know.. I might not have all the details but damn skippy I know that what I am saying is absolutely true. The new system will not be Open Sky at all!
I have heard that due to the pending lawsuit that the lawyers for the county have basically placed a gag order on those in power and that is why you don't hear more about it.
If you really must hear it from the government first thats up to you, but if you want the truth maybe you'll listen to individuals that actually have some knowledge of the system. I've spoken to and had the Open Sky system demonstrated to me and I have more than just a passing glance at the system.
You are probably still waiting for the government to protect you from threats foreign and domestic aren't you? Well you keep on waiting till the government sounds the all clear and I'll continue to load the shells into my weapons.
But when I go to the Lancaster County Commissioners meeting this week I'll let you know more on the system. I was told that I didn't have my facts straight about the cost of the system either, now there are some very red faced County government officials that know that I wasn't bluffing when I brought out the real facts & figures........
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fair enough, let us know what you find out... But if lawyers are involved then you might want to hold off on saying that it will not be Open Sky , a settlement to a working Open Sky system maybe cheaper then changing horses at the end of a race.
As for the government comment because I want someone who makes decisions and writes checks to give us an official thumbs down is not unreasonable, as for the shells comment my guns are ALREADY LOADED !
As for the government comment because I want someone who makes decisions and writes checks to give us an official thumbs down is not unreasonable, as for the shells comment my guns are ALREADY LOADED !
Tommahawk
Member
1268;
BTW Brian has served on the Radio Advisory Committee for the County of Lancaster. His word is worth its weight in gold......
BTW Brian has served on the Radio Advisory Committee for the County of Lancaster. His word is worth its weight in gold......
M/A-Com NOT
Wow, Joe, thanks! (I'm not worthy)
1268, we're more than just numbers. Joe has been into this stuff for a while too.
We Chiefs were told: it is now official. Not only will it not be Open Sky, it will not be M/A-Com. It is beyond comprehension that someone would even suggest throwing more money at this company, let alone this system, if they refuse to work with the customer when the customer gives them a deadline to come up with a plan B, and they refuse. After all, the customer is the boss.
Don't shoot the messenger. I am not an official; I am a volunteer.
There will be some kind of announcement on March 14. You can wait until then if you don't believe us. Oh yeah, what about more bad news from New York State? Stay tuned.
Wow, Joe, thanks! (I'm not worthy)
1268, we're more than just numbers. Joe has been into this stuff for a while too.
We Chiefs were told: it is now official. Not only will it not be Open Sky, it will not be M/A-Com. It is beyond comprehension that someone would even suggest throwing more money at this company, let alone this system, if they refuse to work with the customer when the customer gives them a deadline to come up with a plan B, and they refuse. After all, the customer is the boss.
Don't shoot the messenger. I am not an official; I am a volunteer.
There will be some kind of announcement on March 14. You can wait until then if you don't believe us. Oh yeah, what about more bad news from New York State? Stay tuned.
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Fair enough, Thanks for the update. Has the lawsuit been settled or is it possible that there is someway to salvage your equipment. Will Lancaster have to return there grant money ?? Can you give us some idea what system you are going too ?
Since these questions are way off the original subject could one of you start another topic in the PA forum , We drifted this one off coarse...Sorry folks.
Since these questions are way off the original subject could one of you start another topic in the PA forum , We drifted this one off coarse...Sorry folks.
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another prospective
ANY 800 MHz system is very expensive because of the law of physics. As you get higher in frequency, you need more towers to make the system play. On VHF and UHF frequencies (155Mhz and 450 MHz range) those signals tend to go farther.
Lets talk about Project 25 vs Open Sky and other "patented" systems. Lets say that local police departments decide to go to that digital format. They can bid on and then buy P25 radios from a variety of vendors, Motorola (Ma/Com DOES make a p25 radio) Relm, GE, just about anyone. That's another problem for taxpayers with Open Sky. Because it is a propriety format (patented) no one else can manufacture those radios---meaning a government agency would be forced to buy from Ma/Com--no one else. That's like saying I have a radio and TV station. I will not be using the national standard to broadcast my programming. If you want to see/hear us you will have to buy the TV/radio set from us!
ANY 800 MHz system is very expensive because of the law of physics. As you get higher in frequency, you need more towers to make the system play. On VHF and UHF frequencies (155Mhz and 450 MHz range) those signals tend to go farther.
Lets talk about Project 25 vs Open Sky and other "patented" systems. Lets say that local police departments decide to go to that digital format. They can bid on and then buy P25 radios from a variety of vendors, Motorola (Ma/Com DOES make a p25 radio) Relm, GE, just about anyone. That's another problem for taxpayers with Open Sky. Because it is a propriety format (patented) no one else can manufacture those radios---meaning a government agency would be forced to buy from Ma/Com--no one else. That's like saying I have a radio and TV station. I will not be using the national standard to broadcast my programming. If you want to see/hear us you will have to buy the TV/radio set from us!
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