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Old 08-14-2011, 10:23 AM
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Default Interop (super radios) multi-band

If all the manufactures of the super radios (multi-band), were trying to push interoperability, Why would they not have all the frequencies form the NIFOG already in them? (then you would only add your local jurisdiction freq/systems)

The salesmen show up and say they have the greatest radio, and do not understand why it was made.

my 2 cents worth.


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Old 08-14-2011, 10:45 AM
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I believe the Thales Liberty does (or was planned to).
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Old 08-14-2011, 2:59 PM
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I think that these radios are so new that they don't have a good handle on what the requirements of the users will be. While i'm not sure that these radios will ever be priced to make it into the hands of entire departments, it would be a good idea to pre-load them with some of those channels just so that they're available.

As a side note, I think it's useless for the guide to mention the DOJ 25 cities interop channels, but not include the frequencies!
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Old 08-14-2011, 3:13 PM
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Fed Files Blog: 25 cities Project

Found:
http://mt-fedfiles.blogspot.com/2011...s-project.html

http://mt-fedfiles.blogspot.com/2007...equencies.html

http://mt-fedfiles.blogspot.com/2007...l-interop.html
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Old 08-15-2011, 6:37 AM
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Typically the DOJ Cities [No Longer 25] is by Invitation Only - otherwise you will have every YAHOO [and no not the Internet Company] with them in the radio w/o permission.

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I think that these radios are so new that they don't have a good handle on what the requirements of the users will be. While i'm not sure that these radios will ever be priced to make it into the hands of entire departments, it would be a good idea to pre-load them with some of those channels just so that they're available.

As a side note, I think it's useless for the guide to mention the DOJ 25 cities interop channels, but not include the frequencies!
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Old 08-15-2011, 6:38 AM
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Don't forget our own RR WIKI

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Old 08-21-2011, 9:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSHIFTLT View Post
If all the manufactures of the super radios (multi-band), were trying to push interoperability, Why would they not have all the frequencies form the NIFOG already in them? (then you would only add your local jurisdiction freq/systems)

The salesmen show up and say they have the greatest radio, and do not understand why it was made.

my 2 cents worth.


DHS | National Interoperability Field Operations Guide

The biggest problem with all these "MULTI BAND" radios is the limitation they all have. It's great to have a portable that operates on multiple bands as long as you only need to listen to one band at a time. If you find yourself at an incident where both bands are active and you need real time ability to listen to both bands at the same time, throw these new high priced toys away. They can only hear one conversation at a time. First channel in gets the receiver. All other chatter doesn't exist. Your better off with 2 different radios.

The snake oil dance the sales force lay on agencies is about as slick as you will ever hear. If you want to blow their ego and stop the dance, ask them if you can hear both bands at the same time. They will tap dance all over the place saying sure the scan list can have both band in it. Sure the receiver will work on both bands. The bomb to their presentation is the receiver can't do it at the same time. Only one channel can have control of the receiver at any point in time.
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:38 AM
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Who the heck COULD/Want to listen to two conversations at he same time? Wouldn't that be a confusing garble? I know that would really confuse me!
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:16 AM
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Around here departments do it all the time. I can give you one example, my hometown dept is on UHF and neigboring town is on VHF. When going mutual aid its nice to be able to tune into VHF while still listening to the dispatch channel on UHF. This is done by 2 seperate radios. If it had a multiband mobile, its either or...which kinda stinks sometimes.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:24 AM
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2wayfreq you are correct, I'd bet that 99 % of Fire dept. users only need to talk to their home agency at any 99% of any given time on one or 2 channels.


The other 1% of the users such as the fire administrators can be patched across using methods that have been possible for over 30 years.

This is simply greasing of the palms by slick salesmen, every company wants to get the most money and this isn't possible simply by selling single band analog 12.5 Khz radios.

9-11 was the best scare tactic selling point and the large radio manufacturers smoke and mirror marketing types know it.

How many little volunteer fire dept around the country were talked into buying single band and multiband P25 radios because they were told that the FCC directed it.

In my county, in north central AZ., just about every 2 or 3 man VFD that uses 154.28 MHz fire ground have multiband or single band P25 radios that never get used in P25 mode, heck there still operating in 25 KHz analog mode and the users wouldn't know the difference and don't care, all they need is a single channel com at a scene.


All of these wonderful P25 radios were paid for by our taxpayers dollars while the previous narrowband capable analog radios were simply thrown out as if the thought was that they could never be legally used again.



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Old 08-21-2011, 11:59 AM
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No matter how careful you are, everyone including the manufacturers are going to do it differently and there will always be mistakes. There has already been a correction posted to the new 2011 version of the National Interopability Field Operations Guide (NIFOG). So if a manufacturer pre-programs the interop talk-groups that could possibly have thousands ready for sale sitting in a warehouse that are mis-programmed. Now yes having a majority of the information in the radio and correct is a plus, there will always be some issues as not all localities are allowed to use certain areas of the spectrum like VTAC17 in areas that have a lot of marine activity and in Florida we do not allow for 8CALL90D (Direct) per the NPSPAC Ragion 9 Rules.

What really should occur is that agencies that purchase the multi-band radios put into the bid the requirement that the radios be pre-programmed with the most recent frequency information that is in the most recent version of the NIFOG. The agency can decide what blocks of spectrum come first based on "local usage", but it really should have everything in it.
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Old 08-21-2011, 9:47 PM
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i can't even get multiple agencies on the same system to agree on having common MA channels in their radios. many will say i don't want more than X channels in total because the guys will get in teh wrong zone and be lost. other agencies want EVERYTHING in them, some APX units i programmed have VHF MA, 700 MA, 800 MA, as well as system specific MA channels. the ones using those radios stay on 1 channel 90% of the time, the rest of the time is switching to a FG or maybe SO channel. the other 500 channels in the radio are never turned to.

i think it would be great if they had a default personality or even a few pers that had all teh channels in them already, but even so every agency is going to want them in a certain place, in a certain order, and with certain features(scan/no scan, rpt/dir button or use 1 channel duplex and another simplex) so much so that it would be impossible to standardize.

MSWIN has certain required MA channels for 7/800 mhz, they MUST be in all radios and in a certain way. even so, some agencies i deal with have asked me to remove them. i tell them i can't because that is what teh state wants in there so it stays. if the federal governement(where all the grants come from anyway) did this, then maybe there would be a chance for some standardization, but i don't look for that to happen anytime soon.
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Old 08-22-2011, 4:57 AM
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We have it as a requirement in our ILA that all radios programmed to the system will have at a minimum our "16 Common Talk-Groups" and those locations with PSAP's will monitor the Calling Talk-Groups for those diciplines that they dispatch for. It is all in the wording and if the agreement doesn't state it or it isn't in some type of SOP, yes agencies will do whatever they want.

I do have to say that rebanding gave us the opportunity to clean up a lot of templates starting with our master codeplug.
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Old 08-25-2011, 5:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2wayfreq View Post
Who the heck COULD/Want to listen to two conversations at he same time? Wouldn't that be a confusing garble? I know that would really confuse me!
Let me give you an example. As an Operations Section Chief I regularly am assigned two radios- would one on a command staff channel and another Operations channel where units assigned to operations receive direction and make requests. With practice you won't have any problems listening to two conversations at the same time!
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Old 08-25-2011, 5:39 PM
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Dispatchers do it all the time.

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Who the heck COULD/Want to listen to two conversations at he same time? Wouldn't that be a confusing garble? I know that would really confuse me!
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Old 08-25-2011, 6:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAA951 View Post
Let me give you an example. As an Operations Section Chief I regularly am assigned two radios- would one on a command staff channel and another Operations channel where units assigned to operations receive direction and make requests. With practice you won't have any problems listening to two conversations at the same time!
Same thing around here. Alot of chiefs have dual mobile radios in their command vehicles as well as 2 portables. It really works out very well once you get used to it.
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