Narrow Banding Confusion

[k8zgw]

What does this have to do with narrow banding ????
Why did you post it here ??

[quarterwave]

May be a spammer.

[Bob3655]

This is getting crazy now! Companies taking advantage and a special narrow band antenna?? Oh man... how can anyone fall for that?
Or how desperate can companies/people get? This is the question now guys.
73's

[902]

Originally Posted by teemsindiatowerlines

Did anyone heard about Turnkey Basis? why it is used for?

I suppose this all depends on context. "Turnkey basis" usually means something that's completely set up so all the end-user has to do is turn the key and it goes. Is this a company name? I've never heard of a company with this name, but it could be.

As for some of the other stuff I've read in the thread, Mototrbo is "future compatible" when you consider it achieves 6.25 kHz equivalency. But so is NXDN's 4K00 mode. About the only thing that isn't is P25 phase 1. That's too wide. There is NO date for 6.25 kHz equivalency per talkpath, though, and, if the FCC decides to split 7.5 kHz channel centers into 3-3/4 kHz channel centers, there won't be any benefit to doing it on VHF because even the 4 kHz wide NXDN is too wide to not overlap into the next channelspace.

It's almost funny the kinds of things people make up to sell things. Like taking a $35 scanner discone and selling it for $700 as a "wideband interoperability antenna." Those kind of things make me proud I skipped marketing in college.

[jim202]

Bottom line here is the corrupt radio vendors won't change their ways. The agencies are about as dumb as the stone walls along side a farmer's field about narrow banding. The issue and word from the FCC has been on the trade journals and chat groups for better the part of 10 years now. Guess we will have to wait for the start of January and watch just how many violations get issued to those really dumb agencies that think they don't have to listen or do anything.

The tax payers should be taking to task the city managers, mayors, board of selectmen and what ever other title the town fathers may have for spending money foolishly. If they are too stupid and take the radio vendors word for what has to be done, then shame on them. They deserve what ever legal action comes their way. I just wish that more tax payers would stand up and complain about the millions of dollars that are being sucked out of public agencies on new radios systems by the low dealing sales force people.

[902]

Originally Posted by jim202

Bottom line here is the corrupt radio vendors won't change their ways. The agencies are about as dumb as the stone walls along side a farmer's field about narrow banding. The issue and word from the FCC has been on the trade journals and chat groups for better the part of 10 years now. Guess we will have to wait for the start of January and watch just how many violations get issued to those really dumb agencies that think they don't have to listen or do anything.

The tax payers should be taking to task the city managers, mayors, board of selectmen and what ever other title the town fathers may have for spending money foolishly. If they are too stupid and take the radio vendors word for what has to be done, then shame on them. They deserve what ever legal action comes their way. I just wish that more tax payers would stand up and complain about the millions of dollars that are being sucked out of public agencies on new radios systems by the low dealing sales force people.

Well... the agencies abdicate their responsibilities to a vendor when it comes to communications. I love how some responder people (I was one at one time) are experts on firearms, operating a Hale pump, or in pharmacology, but the one thing they use every day is a mystery that works by black magic. Most people get lost in their radio with more than 16 channels.

And you have some in the PS world who do know what's what, but capitalize on the opportunity to get new toys or replace systems that painted them into a corner.

My favorite ??? article was about a town not far from where I grew up who implemented a T-Band repeater system before the freeze. It was on a splinter, so there was no choice but to build it in narrowband from the beginning, and the agency was asking for a million dollars to "narrowband." I put in a new system with consoles, repeaters, voting receivers, comparators, mobiles, portables, and labor for about $200,000. I can only imagine how that budget was padded.

The FCC being what it is, I'm not sure how effective they will be. I'm thinking they would pick some low-hanging fruit and hope the word gets around. I don't think it's going to be very dramatic at all. The upper floors at the FCC are hoping that the high-maintenance land mobile radio environment goes away to recurring cost wireless broadband and they can auction off the spectrum for revenue. Chaos only reinforces their case.

[mmckenna]

Originally Posted by 902

The upper floors at the FCC are hoping that the high-maintenance land mobile radio environment goes away to recurring cost wireless broadband and they can auction off the spectrum for revenue. Chaos only reinforces their case.

Exactly why public safety LTE is being pushed so hard. Compact all public safety into 700MHz, sell off the rest. Public Safety won't be able to operate and maintain these systems on their own, so they'll hire someone to run it. Who will that be? One of the existing wireless carriers. Eventually those wireless carriers will claim they can't support them due to limited funding. They will then open up the 700MHz LTE services to others, and public safety radio service will suffer.

[m-gerty]

Originally Posted by ecps92

Yup and any Joe-Schzmoe can get a Knock-Off radio with software from China and program them, without any real radio knowledge.

Who needs bench equipment anymore

A major reason for dept's going for this is the way dealers approach them. In 2 counties that I'm aware of the sheriffs were told they must go to digital or they will be in violation of the law. When members of those depts informed the sheriffs that wasn't true, the dealer then charged $90 each to "narrowband" them.
They only have 16 channels programmed and are all identical. Being /\/\ radios, the dept didn't have a lot of choice. Fire depts, rescue, constables, that have to buy their own radios didn't get caught up in that trap.
In another different case, the dealer convinced public works that they needed to go digital. After they found out they couldn't talk to anyone else the dealer told the director of public works it waqs now his job to convince the rest of the city govt. to switch to digital so they could communicate.
I'm sure there are many more horror stories..

[wkredick]

As a money sucking 2way sales rep I can vouch for some of the fairy tales being told to licensees by some other radio shops and sales reps.
1.The future is digital and is the only acceptable technology for 12.5khz
2.Your 125 HT750 portables have to be replaced by TRBO XPR6550 to meet the mandate requirements
3.You will need to replace all your analog gear (CP200,GR1225 )with digital,including your repeaters
4.Oh certainly,TRBO digital is the same as P25 APCO digital
5.You will need to get a new FCC license that is narrow band compliant
6.I need to charge you $100 per radio to narrowband the units 4 channels

[quarterwave]

Our local M guy has been good to work with, he isn't pushing any bad info, they are asking customers to look at Trbo and P25 features, but if the customer just needs to narrowband, they do it.

They did sell a Trbo system to a Sheriff and are taking it out. M is buying it back, and putting them on the State system instead.

I think it really pays to have someone in your organization that KNOWS something about these deals, or find someone who does and pay them something as a consultant...so that you don't get screwed. At the end of the day though....money is the barrier, people are afraid to spend a dime, so they go cheap as possible. An ol buddy of mine who is a M tech said "they want to live in a 100 watt, carrier squelch, low band world, but get big system performance."

[902]

Originally Posted by mmckenna

Exactly why public safety LTE is being pushed so hard. Compact all public safety into 700MHz, sell off the rest. Public Safety won't be able to operate and maintain these systems on their own, so they'll hire someone to run it. Who will that be? One of the existing wireless carriers. Eventually those wireless carriers will claim they can't support them due to limited funding. They will then open up the 700MHz LTE services to others, and public safety radio service will suffer.

You and I have the same crystal ball.

[902]

Originally Posted by wkredick

As a money sucking 2way sales rep I can vouch for some of the fairy tales being told to licensees by some other radio shops and sales reps.
1.The future is digital and is the only acceptable technology for 12.5khz
2.Your 125 HT750 portables have to be replaced by TRBO XPR6550 to meet the mandate requirements
3.You will need to replace all your analog gear (CP200,GR1225 )with digital,including your repeaters
4.Oh certainly,TRBO digital is the same as P25 APCO digital
5.You will need to get a new FCC license that is narrow band compliant
6.I need to charge you $100 per radio to narrowband the units 4 channels

Point for point:
1 - No. Although this is true for 6.25 kHz equivalent technologies.
2 - Nonsense (but you know that already ).
3 - Ka-ching.
4 - Until you try to talk from one system to another. And, if it's on VHF, the agency will make lots of friends when they enable AVL on the second TDM slot.
5 - Ka-ching (unless you know how to use ULS)
6 - I'm in the wrong end of the business.