What happens if a agency does not narrowband

[BamaScan]

What happens if a agency does not narrowband ?? Are there fines ?? If so how much ?? Will the FCC do a sweep across the county to find those who do not narrowband ??

[baycomm]

Do a search for "FCC DA 12-1386"

It is an FCC enforcement advisory that was published by them in August.

I doubt that they will perform any comprehensive sweeps, however, it will probably be much cheaper to comply than to pay the fines & legal expenses if your caught. Be aware that they have fined police departments in the past for other rule violations.

[exkalibur]

What will happen?

Nothing.

The FCC is powerless to enforce these laws which were only created to generate money. Do you really think the City of New York (as an example) would tolerate an FCC paper pusher ordering them to pay money?

[gewecke]

Originally Posted by exkalibur

What will happen?

Nothing.

The FCC is powerless to enforce these laws which were only created to generate money. Do you really think the City of New York (as an example) would tolerate an FCC paper pusher ordering them to pay money?

That's not exactly true.
While enforcement actions have been scaled back somewhat, they still routinely issue NAL's for stations not in compliance.

Here's a link you may want to see,

EB - UNAUTHORIZED OPERATION

73,
n9zas

[n5ims]

Originally Posted by BamaScan

What happens if a agency does not narrowband ??

The agency will be in violation and could face license revocation and/or fines. While not likely, the FCC could even impound the no longer legal equipment.

Originally Posted by BamaScan

Are there fines ?? If so how much ??

From the FCC's Enforcement Advisory on this topic.

What are the penalties for failure to comply with the January 1, 2013 deadline? The Enforcement Bureau is committed to aggressively enforcing the narrowbanding transition deadline and violators may be subject to enforcement action. Penalties for non-compliance may include license revocation, and/or monetary forfeitures of up to $16,000 for each such violation or each day of a continuing violation, and up to $112,500 for any single act or failure to act.

Originally Posted by BamaScan

Will the FCC do a sweep across the county to find those who do not narrowband ??

Probably not, but don't you think that those that spend their cash to comply just might be willing to notify the enforcement bureau about a nearby agency that didn't. Once there are licenses issued for the newly available channels on the inbetween frequencies those folks will report folks whose wideband radios cause issues for those new radios.

Even if nobody complains, it's a very good bet that the FCC will at least do a simple search of their database to see what licenses haven't been modified for narrowband emissions and may take some kind of action on them. This action may be to send someone out to check up on them or to simply revoke their licenses.

[konabrian]

Will a lot of be of no use except for that which might work in the ham bands?

[cavmedic]

I wouldn't doubt that if a narrowband or a 700-800 upgrade was in the process , they ( FCC) would give a grace period for a system that wouldnt be completed on time .

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by exkalibur

What will happen?

Nothing.

The FCC is powerless to enforce these laws which were only created to generate money.

This is untrue. The Enforcement Bureau is alive and well and paying attention. I've worked with them on an interference issue within the last 30 days.

Originally Posted by exkalibur

Do you really think the City of New York (as an example) would tolerate an FCC paper pusher ordering them to pay money?

Absolutely they would. They'd have to. Read up on the FCC's enforcement actions against the State of Nevada. In the eyes of the FCC, local government is just another licensee. They do recognize the safety of life aspect of a city's radio system, but they'll enforce the rules just the same.

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by konabrian

Will a lot of be of no use except for that which might work in the ham bands?

Only the older equipment will be unusable. Newer radios have been narrowband compliant for years. It's just a matter of programming to make them operate in narrow band modes.

There are still lots of older radios that will end up going to surplus. What happens then is anyone's guess. Some get sold. Some get destroyed. Some sit outside in the weather for 6 months and get ruined.

[cdknapp]

I would imagine that the first (and easiest) thing that they can or will do is a computer search of their licensees (data base) to see who hasn't complied with the paperwork end of things. That is easy for them to do. As far was actual radio equipment is concerned, there's no way that they are going to look at ever licensees radio equipment to see if it's in compliance. I guess they could ask all radio dealers, repair shops, etc. to report any non-compliant equipment. That said, it would be up to those individual businesses to actually do this, if they elected to. I would first make SURE that your license is up to date and in compliance. The actual radios themselves...... who knows??

[jim202]

Originally Posted by BamaScan

What happens if a agency does not narrowband ?? Are there fines ?? If so how much ?? Will the FCC do a sweep across the county to find those who do not narrowband ??

I think that if we all just sit back and wait till January, you will have your answer.

[mmckenna]

One thing to remember is that all this narrow banding work is happening for a reason. It isn't just there to force everyone to run around and reprogram radios. Eventually the new channel spaces made between existing services will be put into service. When that is done licensees that haven't narrow banded will be causing interference to those users. That will likely trigger a complaint that will bring the FCC's focus onto the users that are not in compliance.

The FCC has made it very clear that they will not be granting a lot of waivers. In their words, if you wait until the last minute, then file for a waiver, chances are you are not going to get it.

As for the equipment, some of the older radios that are not narrow band capable are showing up for sale on various sites. Deals on non narrow band compliant radios are available, and if you are interested in picking up some decent radios for Ham use, now is the time.

[jeatock]

Keep in mind that the purpose of the whole exercise is to reduce the amount of bandwidth any one user occupies, and allow the spaces opened between existing 'full-channels' to be assigned to new users who can't find a piece of the spectrum any other way.

Several of my clients have licenses and are operating on the 'half-channels' now (Eg: 152.4425). There are incumbent licence holders on the 'full-channels' on either side, and when the incumbents transmit in wide-band mode they interfere with the half-channel users. It is very apparent when they do.

If I was a licence holder that had paid the bucks, done the right thing, was given one of the new half-channels to use with the promise that everyone would be going to narrow emissions, AND my wide-band neighbors kept right on interferring as if nothing needed to change, I would ask nicely first.

If nothing changed I would call the FCC and complain. Now the FCC has my complaint in hand, and knows who to contact without having to go out to monitor the airwaves and beat the weeds for violators.

[zz0468]

Originally Posted by jeatock

...If nothing changed I would call the FCC and complain. Now the FCC has my complaint in hand, and knows who to contact without having to go out to monitor the airwaves and beat the weeds for violators.

If you provide the FCC with enough technical documentation, they can and will act much more rapidly, usually with a letter explaining the error of their ways. Things like screen captures from a spectrum analyzer clearly showing the excessive occupied bandwidth, photos of the transmitter site, and whatever evidence you can collect to prove who the non-compliant licensee is, the faster and better they'll respond.

[robertpearsall]

When you narrowband does the freq. change or just the spacing from 25 to 12.5 the company I work for has 3 portable icoms and a half dozen icom moblies on the fork trucks when I ask about narrowbanding they had no clue I said it had to be done by 1-1-13 and there answer was who is responsable for this and is there any info on the net about it I told them to Google it.any other input we are on the 450 & 460 band

[mmckenna]

Narrow banding only means that you will need to reduce your emissions to 12.5KHz, it does not mean you have to change frequencies.
450MHz and 460MHz is affected. The only services that are not are a few VHF paging channels, amateur radio, GMRS, FRS, Marine band VHF, and the UHF T-band.

IF you feel comfortable posting your license, one of us can look it up and help you with the info. If you can also post which model radios you are using, repeaters, mobiles, hand helds, etc. We can assist you in figuring out if the radios are even capable of doing it.

Alternately, you should contact the shop that the radios were purchased from. Surprised they haven't contact you already...

[robertpearsall]

Dont know the license info I would assume corprate holds it we are on the general business freq 457.2375 & 467.8625 we use icom 221s on fork lifts and the portables are a two channel icom Dont know model

[mmckenna]

OK, that's a good start.

Those frequencies do fall under the narrow band mandate.
Icom F221 mobiles are narrow band capable.

Depending on when your gear was installed, it is likely that it is already narrow band. Anything new we have installed or had installed in the last 7 -8 years we've done narrow band in preparation for this. Could be your company is already in compliance. A check of the license and the radio programming would tell you for sure.

If you are OK PM'ing me your company name and city/state I'll be happy to pull the license data for you and PM it back to you. I'm not a dealer, so I wouldn't contact them directly, or pass the info to anyone else.

[kielhofer]

I was reading on another site that pity the poor PD that doesn't modify their license and radios, If they are still using wide band after 1/1/13 and they make a nice bust as a result of their use of the radio, just imagine what a smart lawyer can do to that PD.

[JPSan]

The real truth in the matter is that the FCC has in place through out the U.S. Swift Reaction Tactical Strike Teams. These units have trained with Special Forces and will be flown in via black stealth Black Hawk copters and surgically take out by force any violators using any non compliant equipment. ALL violators ( individuals) in possession of non compliant violating equipment will be terminated with extreme prejudice.
Drones will be flown overhead equipped with RF seeking warheads to take out all base stations / repeaters.
Then the UN will insert forces to install properly compliant comm systems and operators. The violators will be 100% responsible for expenses for the operation.
The FCC feels that owners of radio equipment have had more than enough time to properly effect the change. Deadline comes and violators will be dealt with. Period! The next target will be the CB'ers.



Just make sure you keep your distance from these non compliant sites when the deadline nears. You'll be safe. Probably. Yeah, you'll be safe. Just make sure your scanners are off and you should be okay. I think.