Using a scanner for remote broadcast reception

[wrktam]

HI: New RR member here since Dec. 2012 & owner of a small 'AM' Radio station. Hoping someone may have a VHF BEAM Antenna for our "remote" broadcast unit (MARTI) on 166.250 Mhz.
Last year, our MARTI Receiver was struck by lightning (welcome to Florida) and since then we've been using a POLICE SCANNER to receive our remote site transmission on 166.250. The audio is great, but out beyond 5 miles, we CANNOT get signal back to the station.
I suppose the MARTI RECEIVER was filtered much better, since it could hear a transmission good enough for broadcast up to 20 miles away.
We're thinking perhaps, the UNIDEN SCANNER being used as the receiver is getting wiped out by the RF eminating from the AM transmitter. ??
MARTI is of no help,since most of the available equipment from them is just too expensive.
Thanks

[wb4wdu]

Being the engineer for about 5 stations in Alabama I tried the same several times. Most times the scanner is more sensitive than any of the Marti equipment I have seen. The key to range is how high the antenna is. If you are not using a outside antenna on the scanner try one. An antenna just above the roof often makes a big improvement over the inside antenna. Are you using the old Marti receive antenna on the scanner, if not try it.If you are using it you may have lightning damage to the antenna or cable.
When I need an antenna for a Marti system I normally check with a local 2-way radio shop and sometimes have been able to trade radio ads for antennas.

[WayneH]

I've updated your subject title. It would help out other members browsing the site if you would use the subject to describe what your thread is about (versus using your member name for the subject).

[n5ims]

Originally Posted by wrktam

HI: New RR member here since Dec. 2012 & owner of a small 'AM' Radio station. Hoping someone may have a VHF BEAM Antenna for our "remote" broadcast unit (MARTI) on 166.250 Mhz.
Last year, our MARTI Receiver was struck by lightning (welcome to Florida) and since then we've been using a POLICE SCANNER to receive our remote site transmission on 166.250. The audio is great, but out beyond 5 miles, we CANNOT get signal back to the station.
I suppose the MARTI RECEIVER was filtered much better, since it could hear a transmission good enough for broadcast up to 20 miles away.
We're thinking perhaps, the UNIDEN SCANNER being used as the receiver is getting wiped out by the RF eminating from the AM transmitter. ??
MARTI is of no help,since most of the available equipment from them is just too expensive.
Thanks

Couple of questions.

1. Is this antenna for your base or is it for the remote broadcast site?
2. Does the desired antenna ever need the ability to be used for transmission (presume not since you're using a scanner, but this can affect the recommendations)?
3. What type of mounting do you need for that antenna (how it it mounted; how much clearance do you have; is it a fixed mounting or on a rotor; etc.)?

It's a shame you missed out on this eBay auction to replace your receiver --> Marti Electronics CR 10 Broadcast Remote Pickup RPU VHF Receiver 166 250 MHz | eBay

[wrktam]

We have a 20 ft. OMNI-DIRECTIONAL antenna tuned to 166.250 mounted at the 184 ft. level of our tower.
Also installed a brand new run of cable from the MARTI receive antenna, down to the studio, and it checks out perfectly.
We DO NOT have a receiver manufactured by MARTI....the original MARTI RECEIVER was destroyed by the lightning strike.
So after having the new run of cable installed by a professional company, we discovered that a real "MARTI" receiver was too expensive for our meager budget. So, I tried a variety of Police type scanners & none of them work. They do ok, out to approx 7-9 miles...but no where near the range that our old MARTI RECEIVER did before it was killed by lightning.
As for the transmission antenna (from the remote site) we're using a YAGI beam , which worked perfectly before last July's killer storm. If the "RECEIVE" problem could be solved at the studio, and allow 166.250 Mhz, I would have no problem. It appears we're dead in the water until we hit the lottery and are able to purchase a MARTI RECEIVER. Also, our BEAM VHF antenna used at the remote sites to broadcast back to the station, is quite old.....I'm sure it has seen better days. But even MARTI, wants $200 for a VHF antenna.
Thanks for the help.....we're just a small market independent station struggling in this bad economy.
We do not "tow that party line" among the larger corporate stations, instead relying on ad revenues only....and most of that was "remote" broadcasts.
I have checked ebay for months, and the prices for real "MARTI" equipment is just too high.
Again...thanks...we're just hanging in there for a while longer.

[zz0468]

I would think that the phase noise of the typical scanner's synthesizer would be objectionable for any audio that's intended to become on-air program audio. That's the hiss that's present on just about every signal, no matter how strong.

I'd be checking eBay for used commercial gear.

[Mike_G_D]

Exactly what zz0458 said. Since, as I understand it the remote broadcast service does not need to be narrowbanded as do the Part 90 LMR services, alot of older "non-narrowbandable" used commercial quality equipment is now cheaply available on the market (mostly sold to hams as they can no longer be used on Part 90 frequencies in the US but your service should also be able to legally use them). You'll have to get someone who knows the equipment well to help you weed all of the chaf out when looking at used gear and make sure the price and condition is right, etc. Maybe some kind soul at a radio shop could assist you with this for a reasonable fee; heck, maybe they even have some old stuff sitting around ready to be scrapped that they could sell you at a cheap price - worth a try. Don't discount current LMR equipment either if the price is right, new or used, so long as you can have it programmed for the wider band deviation. Something I was wondering, maybe the Marti unit uses wider deviation than the usual LMR stuff, even wider than the old +/-5KHz standard since really good audio quality is desired for this type of service? Anyway, you should probably check with some local land mobile radio professional service shops and see if you can get some help without going over your budget. There are some really cheap FM only professional radios out there now (relatively speaking) from a multitude of manufacturers like ICOM and Kenwood that may do what you want - remember, you'll have to make sure you explain that this is for a broadcast relay system and not regular land mobile so you will need the exact opposite transmission bandwidth capability then what they are used to dealing with these days (you need wider FM deviation and not narrower!).

Also, I would look at that remote site transmission antenna - it sounds like it really needs service. If you can get affordable help from a radio shop then get them to do a complete check out of that system, transmitter, cable, antenna, grounding, etc. Getting that all back up to snuff might really help out at the receive site. As you indicated, getting a directional antenna at the receive site would also really improve things if practical to do so. Talk to the service guys about that possibility also. And if they are doing that find out what kind of actual FM deviation is transmitted by the remote transmitter and make sure whatever receiver you end up using can accommodate that properly. Also, broadcast service remote transmitters may have other audio processing differences from regular land mobile equipment such as different audio pre-emphasis characteristics and maybe other unique audio compression characteristics. If so, then maybe a regular land mobile radio (or scanner) can't be used effectively without modification, at least for getting a good quality signal. In that case, you're stuck with looking for a used studio quality remote receiver like your old Marti that you could afford.

If you can use a land mobile radio, new or used, make sure that the line level audio is available from it and that you can get or have the right connection hardware to couple your studio mixers to it.

Obviously, if you can locate a shop/service with lots of experience with remote broadcast customers that would be best.

In a real pinch, you might be able to find some technically proficient amateur radio operators in your local area that might be able to help on a volunteer basis (or for beer or even a chance to get their club activities mentioned on the air). If you go that rout,though, be careful and look for really technically able ham operators, those with actual professional radio service backgrounds would be best. Start with the local ham clubs and call around - the better ones usually have some good technical groups that do the main repeater maintenance and work on the more exotic equipment and have some real professional service equipment on hand (though usually old, that's better than none at all). At the very least, the hams should be able to build you a decent VHF yagi directional antenna to use at the receive sight and maybe even get your remote site antenna system cleaned up. Actual mention of the club's help and activities during your broadcasts might be a good enticement for them to give you a hand. Even so, I'd at least get a professional service person to do a final test on the stuff especially the transmitter to make sure it's all up to snuff FCC-wise.

-Mike