emergency radio communication

[gpatega]

Hi all,
I have a general question i hope someone can help answer. I do allot of back country skiing, hiking, ice climbing. Recently I had heard of some guys getting in caught in an avalanche MT Washington nh . And needed the snow rangers to come to there aid. One of them had a radio that greatly improved the situation.

My question is what radio can I get to carry as an emergency only radio. I have personal 2 way radio... Midlands. But i think these won't work for what I want.

Can someone school me here

Thanks many times
Gene

[Rt169Radio]

Well there is:

1. MURS
2. GMRS (need a license to use)
3. FRS
4. Amateur radio (need a license to use)
5. CB

[mmckenna]

Use one of the radio services listed above, stick to one channel/PL code, and leave that information with someone that can provide it to authorities if necessary.

Your other legal option is:
Satellite phone, Iridium is a good option, but expensive.
PLB, Personal Locator Beacon. This is a small beacon you can carry. You press a button and it will transmit your GPS position to a satellite, and that will bounce to Search And Rescue coordination centers.
SPOT messenger, or similar subscription satellite service.

What you can't use:
ANY licensed radio service unless you have a valid license from the FCC, doesn't matter what anyone says, you can't pop up on a public safety channel legally. You can try, but likely two things will happen:
1. you will likely get rescued
2. you will then have to do a lot of explaining, likely lose your radio and can get hefty fines from the FCC.

Using the Search and Rescue frequency isn't legal unless you are properly licensed for it. Relying on a 5 watt VHF radio in simplex mode would be foolish. There is no guarantee anyone would be listening, and you'd still have to get the PL tones right, if they were using one.

Really, the best options are the ones that RT169 listed, they are legal, appropriate and if you leave the frequency/channel and PL tone info with someone, more likely to be useful.

And as always:
Technology will never replace proper training in an emergency. Go prepared.

[n5ims]

Originally Posted by gpatega

Hi all,
I have a general question i hope someone can help answer. I do allot of back country skiing, hiking, ice climbing. Recently I had heard of some guys getting in caught in an avalanche MT Washington nh . And needed the snow rangers to come to there aid. One of them had a radio that greatly improved the situation.

My question is what radio can I get to carry as an emergency only radio. I have personal 2 way radio... Midlands. But i think these won't work for what I want.

Can someone school me here

Thanks many times
Gene

Check with the folks that run the sites where you snow (e.g. the ski resort patrol folks, the park rangers, local PD or county sheriff, etc.) to see what they monitor or recomend. We may agree that MURS is the answer, but if they monitor GMRS not MURS you're still stuck. It also may be that a radio isn't the best solution is some areas, but some type of personal locator beacon is best.

Several rescue groups have what's necessary to track and location these beacons while a radio relies on you being awake and alert enough to accurately report your location and mobile enough to operate the radio. The PLB only requires you to activate the alert function (some even can do this automatically based on impact) and wait for you to be located.

[RodStrong]

Originally Posted by mmckenna

Use one of the radio services listed above, stick to one channel/PL code, and leave that information with someone that can provide it to authorities if necessary.

Your other legal option is:
Satellite phone, Iridium is a good option, but expensive.
PLB, Personal Locator Beacon. This is a small beacon you can carry. You press a button and it will transmit your GPS position to a satellite, and that will bounce to Search And Rescue coordination centers.
SPOT messenger, or similar subscription satellite service.

What you can't use:
ANY licensed radio service unless you have a valid license from the FCC, doesn't matter what anyone says, you can't pop up on a public safety channel legally. You can try, but likely two things will happen:
1. you will likely get rescued
2. you will then have to do a lot of explaining, likely lose your radio and can get hefty fines from the FCC.

Using the Search and Rescue frequency isn't legal unless you are properly licensed for it. Relying on a 5 watt VHF radio in simplex mode would be foolish. There is no guarantee anyone would be listening, and you'd still have to get the PL tones right, if they were using one.

Really, the best options are the ones that RT169 listed, they are legal, appropriate and if you leave the frequency/channel and PL tone info with someone, more likely to be useful.

And as always:
Technology will never replace proper training in an emergency. Go prepared.

Great info. However, I would recommend you never use a PL code in the back country.....ever. PLs are great for congested areas like the mall and the ski resort, but not while in the back country. All they do is inhibit teams from being able to contact you, and potentially others in the field as well. No matter what though, as was posted, if you run on a certain channel or frequency, make sure someone who would potentially report you missing or a close family member (that a SAR unit might contact to investigate you) has the info. Good luck.

[SteveC0625]

We just had a huge discussion on this exact topic in the GMRS/FRS forum. It's worth reading, but may not ultimately give you a single clear answer.

National Hiking Frequency/SAR

[gpatega]

Many thanks to everyone that took the time to answer my question, very detailed. I understand much better about this sort of thing. I will get a spot locator, and leave my frequency and channel information on my car window.

One more question if you would be kind, .... anyone can get a license get a radio (vhf) find the frequencys they need programed into it, and be able to communicate on it? Or is the license for a specific freguency assign (purchased) by the license holder, and on that hold can use that frequency?

Just trying to understand how this whole thing with frequencys works... basiclly

[SteveC0625]

Originally Posted by gpatega

Many thanks to everyone that took the time to answer my question, very detailed. I understand much better about this sort of thing. I will get a spot locator, and leave my frequency and channel information on my car window.

One more question if you would be kind, .... anyone can get a license get a radio (vhf) find the frequencys they need programed into it, and be able to communicate on it? Or is the license for a specific freguency assign (purchased) by the license holder, and on that hold can use that frequency?

Just trying to understand how this whole thing with frequencys works... basiclly

There are business licenses and there are public safety licenses. (Overly simplified, but enough to help you begin to understand.) Most anyone can qualify to get a license in the business pool, but the cost can be considerable for coordination and the application.

There are a few itinerant business channels that are fairly easy to be licensed on, but they are generally low power.

Public safety is probably not available to you at all.

If you read the other thread I already pointed out, you may be better off to find out what is commonly used where you plan to hike, climb, or ski. As extensively discussed in the other thread, there is no single solution.

If I was in your shoes, I'd be contacting the locals to find out what they use first.

[mancow]

If it were me I would program every public service frequency I had access to.

I'm sure if you were lying there half dead the last thing you would worry about is an FCC fine.

[mmckenna]

Originally Posted by mancow

If it were me I would program every public service frequency I had access to.

I'm sure if you were lying there half dead the last thing you would worry about is an FCC fine.

Absolutely true.

Suggesting someone else do that probably isn't the right thing, however. As much as I appreciate my radios, I wouldn't put all my stock in them when out in the back country. Technology isn't the answer to all of life's problems. Being properly prepared before you go out hiking should be #1 on the list. It's amazing how many people won't even take a first aid class, but will drop a few hundred on some piece of electronic equipment.
I was in the back country on my ATV and flipped it. Broke my hip and cracked my pelvis in a couple of places. Since I was bringing up the rear, the radio allowed me to call for help. While I could have popped over to a USFS frequency, I didn't, instead we worked on getting me down to where I could get help, not wait for someone to come up and get me.
Rule number 1 should be to never go out alone!

[gpatega]

Does anyone have an opinion on the radio for a hand held type. WOUXUN KG-UV2D VHF/UHF Dual Band HT. I found it in another post on this site, price is very reasonable for what I would intend for it.

Also do you need a license to own one of these, and is having it unlocked mean being able to access any of the channel in its range?

8th you need a license, what is the best way of getting one, class or self study?

[mmckenna]

Originally Posted by gpatega

Does anyone have an opinion on the radio for a hand held type. WOUXUN KG-UV2D VHF/UHF Dual Band HT. I found it in another post on this site, price is very reasonable for what I would intend for it.

People either love them or hate them. I don't own one, but I know a few people that do. They DO work, but you would need to consider it a disposable radio. It wouldn't be worth repairing one if it failed. Just toss it and buy a new one. They don't stand up to constant heavy use, so anything other than hobby or light industrial use would not be recommended. It would likely be fine for what you need, and the price is pretty good.

Originally Posted by gpatega

Also do you need a license to own one of these, and is having it unlocked mean being able to access any of the channel in its range?

You do not need a license to own one. You do need a license to transmit with one. They don't have the correct part 95 certifications for MURS, so it wouldn't be legal to use there. They can't legally be used on FRS as they have the removable antenna. GMRS, HAM etc, require licenses.

Originally Posted by gpatega

8th you need a license, what is the best way of getting one, class or self study?

With this radio, you need to decide what you are going to do with it. If you are going to use it on the amateur radio bands (2 meters & 70 centimeter bands) then you need to have at least a Technician class Amateur radio license. There are classes and there is always self study. The classes are good if you learn better in a classroom environment. Self study works well for those that can learn that way. A combination of both would be ideal. Simply being able to regurgitate the answers will pass the test, but won't really teach you much. Taking a class and learning the theory and background info would be best.

If you are going to use it on GMRS, then you just need to get a GMRS license, which involves filling out a form, paying a fee, and the FCC sends you a license that is good for 5 years and covers you and your immediate family.

Personally, I'd do both. It would give you the most options. I have both Amateur and GMRS licenses, and there are occasions when both server their purposes.

[Avery93]

Originally Posted by mancow

If it were me I would program every public service frequency I had access to.

I'm sure if you were lying there half dead the last thing you would worry about is an FCC fine.

Legalities aside, I don't think this is a good idea. At least in my area, agencies are not really used to receiving calls via radio, even from known units like volunteer firefighters. Add to this the confusion from having an unknown person come up on their channel, likely very distressed and using incorrect or unfamiliar radio terminology, then the process would not go smoothly at all. The amount of time needed just to determine the "callers" location and type of emergency when asking questions over a radio would tie up that channel for quite a while.

Now, if you are talking about using an agencies tactical or fireground channel to coordinate with the SAR crews after they have been notified by other, more practical means (e.g. PLB, SPOT); then that would be a big maybe. The crews will already know what is going on, and know the location of the incident, so as long as the distressed person is at all familiar with radio procedures; using one of the agencies channels could be beneficial by allowing the person to give better directions or updated conditions without the SAR team having to use a different radio. Afterwords, I would expect the agency to be very curious why someone had their channels programmed as transmit capable. Also keep in mind that the FCC regulations regarding emergency use apparently only cover "life and death" situations, so simply being lost may not cut it legally. I said apparently because I have still not found the actual FCC rule regarding this; anyone want to post it?

[rapidcharger]

Not to take sides on any argument but I wouldn't hesitate to use any means available to signal for help in a true life or death emergency. I'm not talking about "oh help, I have a flat tire on my dirt bike" but more like "Our plane went down and we're starting to eat one another."
I seriously doubt the FCC would fine you for doing that and if they did, so what.
If you think the FCC fine is bad, just wait til the medical bills start rolling in.