looking to rebuild and up some wattage on a repeater

[riccom]

I am with a casino that has a good 10 to 12 year old repeater that now has some degrading issues with handheld use.
I would Like to upgrade the system and keep it analog or digital and know the works on it.
so my question is this.
I am thginking that this is on a boat and if any of you know that this is steel and concrete and also a hotel ajacent to the boat and a entrance to the boat with also a lot of securty on the premises.
and i would like to keep the ops analog and the securty in a digital or encrypted mode that way we still keep interop going.

and about the repeater
The fcc licence shows a good 10 watts for the output, and in ther boat (where the repeater and antenna is loacated) the inside has dead or fringed spots, and would upping the wattage help or a better db gain antenna help at all.
I am looking at all options and want to see if this is better to keep up then replace the whole shabang?
here is the fcc look up if you want to know anything

WQJV875 (Boomtown Belle Casino) FCC Callsign Details

 

[prcguy]

Your license allows up to 10w out of the transmitter on some frequencies but all of your frequencies are limited to 2w ERP. That means if you have a 10w transmitter and a 0dB gain antenna, you need at least 7dB of loss between the transmitter and antenna. Or you need an antenna with -7dB gain to comply at the 10w transmitter level with no feedline loss.

You really need to get the license modified for more ERP, then you can go hog wild with antenna gain and put the signal where will do the most good. At least the license is up to date for narrow band operation.
prcguy

I am with a casino that has a good 10 to 12 year old repeater that now has some degrading issues with handheld use.
I would Like to upgrade the system and keep it analog or digital and know the works on it.
so my question is this.
I am thginking that this is on a boat and if any of you know that this is steel and concrete and also a hotel ajacent to the boat and a entrance to the boat with also a lot of securty on the premises.
and i would like to keep the ops analog and the securty in a digital or encrypted mode that way we still keep interop going.

and about the repeater
The fcc licence shows a good 10 watts for the output, and in ther boat (where the repeater and antenna is loacated) the inside has dead or fringed spots, and would upping the wattage help or a better db gain antenna help at all.
I am looking at all options and want to see if this is better to keep up then replace the whole shabang?
here is the fcc look up if you want to know anything

WQJV875 (Boomtown Belle Casino) FCC Callsign Details

 

[zz0468]

A distributed antenna system might be the way to go, with leaky coax and a few point source antennas.

 

[WA0CBW]

It looks like your license shows 8 repeaters. Are you looking at improving all or just 1?
BB

 

[riccom]

Just one

 

[WA0CBW]

Are you using a Transmitter combiner and Receiver multicoupler for the antenna network?

 

[riccom]

As far as I seen there is just one and its a combination one, with a singal line now the other antennas may be for the another setup in i.t. but its a multiplexer for 3 different frequencies. And if I could get photos I would but for work use of cells and cameras are prohibited

 

[riccom]

this is the same model of repeaters we are using on one antenna for 5 repeaters
this is a look alike on the antenna

and the antenna run is only 20 feet with LMR 600 Half Inch Heliax Coax.
by all accounts this should run fine, but the signal has dead spots right under it.
am i thinking that it could be bad cable or antenna?

 

[SCPD]

You should have dead spots directly under a vertical. The antenna radiates horizontally. The fact that you're got a dead spot while being under the antenna leads me to think the feedline is just fine.

If the only place you got problems is under the antenna, don't touch nothing, you got no issues.

 

[riccom]

Ok cool thanks wyandotte

 

[ramal121]

Boy, a boat (ship?) Now there is a tough nut to crack. My maritime expertise hovers close to nil.

First off, did the repeater ever work OK and now you are having difficulties or has it been poor since the git-go?

With a repeater you need to decide what side of the equation you are having problems with. Receive into it or transmit back out to the portables. Usually if you can tackle both at the same time all the better.

Back in the day when low power industrial radios were in vogue, I had repeaters that would cover an entire shopping mall or a college campus with a 2 watt ERP no problem. Sounds like your license may reflect something along these lines.

Yes you can increase transmit power to penetrate dead spots if that is where your problem lies. I suspect receive at the repeater is also a factor. For short range on site communications a gain antenna will probably be of no help if not a hindrance.

Distributed antenna systems certainly can help. I have done several systems that are in caves and even a 50/50 inside antenna and out side antenna can work wonders.

But I'm kinda leaning with Wyandotte as far as antenna placement and dead zones. So let me tell you a story.

Had a hospital. Typical bulletproof design with concrete/metal pan floors. Put in a UHF repeater with a unity gain omni antenna on the roof. Poor coverage, maybe the top 2/3 floors. Bottom floor and lobby just about zilch coverage. Just couldn't punch all the way down. In lieu of fancy engineering, we just moved the repeater across the parking lot to a one story utility building and changed the antenna to a yagi pointed back toward the main hospital building. With the radio path now virtually horizontal looking back into all the windows of every floor we got 100% coverage throughout.

So sometimes you just have to step back and look at the whole picture to find what works. What do you think your situation may need?

 

[riccom]

I was thinking a digital setup, I know p 25 won't work due to background noise and some yelling in to the Mic, but if the repeater is fine then I guess leave it as is.

 

[rapidcharger]

I was thinking a digital setup, I know p 25 won't work due to background noise and some yelling in to the Mic, but if the repeater is fine then I guess leave it as is.

Actually digital can help a lot with background noise. You might try DMR in particular. NXDN is another one that is being used in casinos. IME, it cancels out the background noise a lot better than analog. Another thing you might try (during a demo period of course) is going with higher power portables and skipping the repeater altogether. I'm sure that will kick start a flurry of controversy in this thread but you don't have an especially big complex. If that boat is going to remain stationary, a repeater might be more trouble than its worth. I have used simplex portable to portable in much larger buildings and had very satisfactory results without even using a repeater. Your mileage may vary.

 

[WA0CBW]

The repeater in the picture is a digital DMR MotoTrbo. It will do digital or analog or dynamic mixed mode. Which are you using?
BB

 

[rapidcharger]

Something doesn't make sense. The original post said 10-12 year old repeater. I don't think the XPR series repeaters were around 10 years ago. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. That stuff was just coming on the scene around 2008 or thereabouts.

 

[WA0CBW]

That is correct rapidcharger - Something doesn't make sense here.
BB

 

[riccom]

i was wrong i noticed the install date was in 09, (sorry i was going by what my boss said and finally had a good look at the set up)
as soon as my phone has net i will upload a photo of the install.
we are analog at this time, and i am just going by a reference photo i will have a photo in a few.

 

[riccom]

 

[cmdrwill]

I would get 'fired' for doing an install like the one pictured. I bet it has a really crappy antenna on it too.....
And I can see mobile duplexers also NOT GOOD.

And LMR600, dam it IS time to get a rope.....

Better yet hang the installer, salesman, and the engineer, with LMR400....

 

[prcguy]

I don't see any isolators in the system, does that model repeater have a built in isolator option? If all the antennas are fairly close together, when several repeaters key up at the same time the spectrum will light up like a Christmas tree with IMD generated in all the repeater transmitters.
prcguy

I would get 'fired' for doing an install like the one pictured. I bet it has a really crappy antenna on it too.....
And I can see mobile duplexers also NOT GOOD.

And LMR600, dam it IS time to get a rope.....

Better yet hang the installer, salesman, and the engineer, with LMR400....