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EFJ 51 SL ES

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DJ11DLN

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We have several of these handhelds to access the statewide trunked system (Project Hoosier Safe-T). It's a Mot2 system currently being upgraded to P25 trunking. Will be p.1 digital for the foreseeable future. Was recently told that if we have any of these with a S/N ending in "4", they cannot be upgraded. We of course have one of these and it is in the same model designator as others. Can anyone shed light upon this, as it sounds a little bogus to me. I'll be glad to PM the complete tag info to anyone who knows about this and is willing to clarify things for me. Thanks.
 

cmjonesinc

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I have several 5100s that were on our statewide system here in NC which was type ii and recently went p25 and I had no problems with them. And two of them were pretty old versions. There's some work arounds for enabling options like p25 and such, but rr will probably get mad if we talk about them. In fact the radios weren't even type ii when I got them, so I turned that option on then had to change them again for p25. I can't imagine why a 51sl being newer wouldn't work, but I'm no efj expert.
 
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DJ11DLN

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I have several 5100s that were on our statewide system here in NC which was type ii and recently went p25 and I had no problems with them. And two of them were pretty old versions. There's some work arounds for enabling options like p25 and such, but rr will probably get mad if we talk about them. In fact the radios weren't even type ii when I got them, so I turned that option on then had to change them again for p25. I can't imagine why a 51sl being newer wouldn't work, but I'm no efj expert.

That was my thought, it's still a current model even though these are from around 2009-ish, so why would some be incapable of being upgraded to P25 CAI? It sounds to me as if somebody wants an excuse to sell some radios. It caused me to recall how they tried to tell us that we "had" to buy these things back when because "VHF-Hi is being reallocated to Civil Aviation by 2012 and you're going to lose it, all but your pagers." Pure Bravo Sierra, of course, but lots of folks believed it.

I just hope the state authorizes other brands. I know a lot of agencies will drink the cool-aid and fork out $3-4K for radios with the batwing or the viking on 'em...not mine. If there is another brand authorized, that's what we'll go with. Moto already is a bad word around our firehouse, and EFJ is getting that way, so the current hope is that they will allow Kenwood 5400s.:twisted:

Thanks for your reply. I was getting a little worried there for awhile.:)
 

cmjonesinc

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Well I'm in moto country myself but I have a few efj's. I hear those kenwoods are where it's at. I was speaking with a Harris rep recently and he said "wait and see" what Harris is working on. I've always found it's the "six in one, half dozen the other" with most radios. But then again some of our biggest complaints aren't the radios themselves but with the way they were programmed. But on your original question, I really cant see why they wouldn't work. If you wanna pm me the info I'll confirm it with a friend of mine who deals efj.
 

DJ11DLN

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Well I'm in moto country myself but I have a few efj's. I hear those kenwoods are where it's at. I was speaking with a Harris rep recently and he said "wait and see" what Harris is working on. I've always found it's the "six in one, half dozen the other" with most radios. But then again some of our biggest complaints aren't the radios themselves but with the way they were programmed. But on your original question, I really cant see why they wouldn't work. If you wanna pm me the info I'll confirm it with a friend of mine who deals efj.

Got some clarification on it yesterday. Now am being told that it isn't that these radios can't be upgraded to P25 CAI, but that they have "ended support" for them due to their age. Yet the 51 SL series remains in the EFJ product line.:confused:

So the grant the County obtained to pay for the lion's share of the (astronomical) reprogramming costs won't cover these "no longer supported" radios. And my understanding of it is that the state doesn't want anything "unsupported" on the system. So the whole premise was flawed, but I do really appreciate your taking an interest and offering to help me unravel it.:D

And it is just exactly this sort of thing that makes me really not a fan of these statewide systems, particularly in primarily rural areas where they amount to an extremely expen$ive answer to a question nobody asked...but if I get into that, this will run on too long and might even get deleted. So thanks again for your interest and have a great weekend.
 

talviar

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Look at it from the system owner perspective. . . .

First just because a radio still shows up on a manufacturers web site doesn't mean it is "available for sale".

Now on to the system owner perspective-
Rolling out a new system and having to program/reprogram- upgrade/reprogram lots of radios.
Multiple vendor platforms (Ex. Moto, EFJ, Kenwood, Relm, Harris, etc)

A problem is encountered with operation of a particular radio on a radio system . . . . I'll use your EFJ 51 SL ES as an example.
I run into a problem (as a system owner) and need "support" for programming. I call in and say I have an EFJ 51 SL ES portable radio firmware version X, and am having problems with this.

If they no longer support it, they tell me that.

Now what do I as a system owner do? I tell you as the radio owner, sorry. we can't figure it out and support is not available.

You as radio owner are pissed at me as system owner either way. I tell you in advance u need a new radio. Or I wait until we have problems and I can't resolve them. Either way you end up with a radio that doesn't work or doesn't work properly and an unhappy radio owner.

If you want on the system- you will have to play by their rules. Simple as that.

Last fall I turned away folks wanting to put XTS3000's on a new Motorola ASTRO25 trunking system. Radio out of support, programming software not available for purchase.

There is a reason the owners put standards on what they will let play on the system. Ability of the radio to simply function is only one part of that list they go thru.
 

DJ11DLN

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Look at it from the system owner perspective. . . .

First just because a radio still shows up on a manufacturers web site doesn't mean it is "available for sale".

Now on to the system owner perspective-
Rolling out a new system and having to program/reprogram- upgrade/reprogram lots of radios.
Multiple vendor platforms (Ex. Moto, EFJ, Kenwood, Relm, Harris, etc)

A problem is encountered with operation of a particular radio on a radio system . . . . I'll use your EFJ 51 SL ES as an example.
I run into a problem (as a system owner) and need "support" for programming. I call in and say I have an EFJ 51 SL ES portable radio firmware version X, and am having problems with this.

If they no longer support it, they tell me that.

Now what do I as a system owner do? I tell you as the radio owner, sorry. we can't figure it out and support is not available.

You as radio owner are pissed at me as system owner either way. I tell you in advance u need a new radio. Or I wait until we have problems and I can't resolve them. Either way you end up with a radio that doesn't work or doesn't work properly and an unhappy radio owner.

If you want on the system- you will have to play by their rules. Simple as that.

Last fall I turned away folks wanting to put XTS3000's on a new Motorola ASTRO25 trunking system. Radio out of support, programming software not available for purchase.

There is a reason the owners put standards on what they will let play on the system. Ability of the radio to simply function is only one part of that list they go thru.

I disagree with several of your points, not saying you are incorrect, just that it is not the situation here...but I don't want to start a firestorm, so I'll just say that my Department does not want on this system. We are being told that we must be on it by the system owner, i.e. the state.

Several concurring opinions, including the one given here, indicate that this is an older version of a model still produced and that EFJ has decided to pull the plug on it. If I discover that the system owner knew about this when they approved them for purchase (this P25 CAI update has been in the works since well before these were acquired), then they will have seriously dropped the ball and at that point I will be upset with them, not until, at least not over this issue.

My sole purpose here was to get some answers. I have invested well over 30 years in my Department, so I've been around the block, and I've learned that you never take the first bid and you never rely on one opinion. I got one here and I got a couple from other sources, so now I know that yes, we will have some expensive paperweights, and no, there's nothing to be done about it, except replace them.

And I make no secret of the fact that I don't like these systems, for the most part...they are an answer to a question never asked, at least in my neck of the woods, because we're a largely rural state and conventional would serve our needs perfectly well, providing interop capability, as it did quite well before this whole jump-on-the-TSYS-bandwagon craze got started. So If I've come across as being a little contentious, it's just my tendency to really hate to see my Department getting screwed over. Thanks for the input.
 

talviar

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DJ11DLN

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On your original question you inquired about s/n ending in 4, that would be the model # ending in 4.

See link https://www.efjohnson.com/resources/dyn/files/1187389z3d7e6b05/_fn/FSB-0414-EOS5153-02.pdf

Also the 51 SL ES End of Life notice is here https://www.efjohnson.com/resources/dyn/files/1296121zc986e3a8/_fn/FSB-1114-EOLESP-03.pdf

I'd check the model tag against the 2 service bulletins listed and that should shed a little light on your original question.

I forwarded those links to our County EMA, who was the source of the original bulletin. He had the terminology wrong, but acted in good faith as the "serial # ending in 4" was a direct quote from a rep from the statewide system. Thanks for the info, that sheds a whole lot of light on the whole thing, much appreciated.

Maybe we'll organize a multi-Department range day to "dispose" of the ones that turn into pumpkins when the cut-over happens.:twisted: (gotta find a little levity in this whole mess somewhere...)
 
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