MURS frequencies

[kixntuff]

I have a couple real quick questions about these frequencies.

151.820 MHz (11.25 kHz)

151.880 MHz (11.25 kHz)

151.940 MHz (11.25 kHz)

154.570 MHz (20.00 kHz)

154.600 MHz (20.00 kHz)

1. What exactly is the 11.25khz bandwidth? I don't really understand what the 11.25Khz is telling me to do if I or someone wanted to listen in on a MURS frequency. Do you Dial your radio to 151.820 and your done or do you need to adjust the bandwidth?

2. Would someone operating on frequencies like 151.625, 151.715, 154.980, 153.395, be considered to be operating on MURS frequencies or something else?

Thanks,

Kix

 

[NDRADIONUT]

Narrow fm i think they are all nfm since 2013.... The rest are business freqs...

 

[nd5y]

11 kHz bandwith is 2.5 kHz deviation and commonly labeled in radio menus and programming software as "narrow"
20 kHz bandwidth is 5 kHz deviation and commonly labeled in radio menus and programming software as "wide"

FCC rules state that 151.82, 151.88, 151.94 must be narrow. 154.57 and 154.6 can be wide or narrow.

The five frequencies above are the only MURS frequencies. For more information see https://www.fcc.gov/general/multi-use-radio-service-murs and eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

The other frequencies the OP listed are Industrial/Business Pool and Public Safety Pool frequencies.

 

[SCPD]

License free on a murs radio. Can tx on a authorized by fcc murs radio.

154.570 wide
154.600 wide

Rest are narrow. They are narrow to the 11 bandowth on murs radios.

Http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Multi-Use_Radio_Service

 

[SCPD]

In reality you can just pop them in and listen on csq unless your scanner has pl dpl search find function.

 

[mmckenna]

2. Would someone operating on frequencies like 151.625, 151.715, 154.980, 153.395, be considered to be operating on MURS frequencies or something else?

Thanks,

Kix

Those are NOT MURS frequencies and not covered by the FCC Part 95 MURS rules. They are part 90 frequencies and thus needed to be properly licensed as such. Operating on those frequencies would put you in violation of the FCC rules. Does not matter what power level you are running, you must be licensed for those.

 

[kixntuff]

So if you were wanting to listen in with a programable transceiver like a baofeng hand held, would it be crucial to make sure you program for NFM and just FM for the appropriate MURS frequency? What menu function on a Baofeng hand held would that be?

2nd question is, turns out that those other frequencies I posted are for these racing companies that I will have to be able to communicate with during the Baja 1000 next year. So because they are privately owned, I should be able to operate on them unlicensed because i will be technically affilliated with that company for the week, correct? I'm planning on getting my technicians license, but the rest of my team are not.

 

[WA0CBW]

Frequencies are not privately owned. They are assigned by a frequency coordinator or by the FCC. With the exception of MURS, FRS, and CB an FCC license is required to transmit. A Technicians license is applicable only to the Amateur radio service and authorizes certain frequencies in the amateur service to be used by a technician. You may use the racing companies frequencies only as long as they give you permission. Also the radio you use is required to be authorized (certified) by the FCC for the radio service it is being used in. For business radios that would be part 90 certification and for MURS that would be part 95. An exception is that for the most part any radio can be used (modified) for use in the Amateur radio service. Check your Baofeng to see if it is authorized for Part 90 service.
BB

 

[SCPD]

If your a employee or work for that said company yes you can operate on its licenses frequencies. Typically a business or company has a comm guy or company program the equipment. Some have a in house ham tech who programs things and orders equipment needed. Some have licensed radio techs. It depends on who it is and what entity it is. Many will think it's non sense but even wal marts still run older radios that can be programmed and yes they do in house programming by the managers. Legal pr not for them another topic. So since your employed or volunteer for that company and have permission or duties to use the radios then yes you can as long as the equipment is certified by fcc for use on the particular frequencies you use. Do people use frequencies that are expired? Yes. Should they? No but they do. Should they use a regular radio on murs? No but they do. If they get caught they know it'll rain down on them with fines. IF. Usually unless there is mass interference nobody will say anything. Do hams dislike those type users and people? Yes. But i have never met a ham who didn't at one time or other break a fcc rule himself.

 

[nd5y]

If this is the same Baja 1000 race that is held in Mexico, then none of these responses apply.
You need to find out from the race organization what to do. MURS frequencies might not be legal in Mexico.
FCC private land mobile radio licenses are not valid outside of the US. You would need authorization from Mexico to operate radios there.
A US amateur license is not valid in Mexico either unless you get a reciprocal permit from Mexico.

 

[N4KVE]

If this is the same Baja 1000 race that is held in Mexico, then none of these responses apply.
You need to find out from the race organization what to do. MURS frequencies might not be legal in Mexico.
FCC private land mobile radio licenses are not valid outside of the US. You would need authorization from Mexico to operate radios there.
A US amateur license is not valid in Mexico either unless you get a reciprocal permit from Mexico.

Years ago I used to go to several NHRA drag races. The NHRA had about 6 UHF freq's they were licensed to use. Typical 464.5, 464.55 etc simplex freq's. There was one race a year at Sanair, near Montreal Canada. They did not apply to the Canadian Gov't for permits to use their freq's once a year at that race. LOL.

 

[mmckenna]

So if you were wanting to listen in with a programable transceiver like a baofeng hand held, would it be crucial to make sure you program for NFM and just FM for the appropriate MURS frequency? What menu function on a Baofeng hand held would that be?

Set it as appropriate for each channel. Either one will work for listening, but for transmitting you need to have it correct to be operating within the rules. MURS is what is referred to as "License By Rule". That is FCC jargon for meaning that if you follow all the rules, you are allowed to use the service. If you start operating outside the rules (improper bandwidth, exceeding the 2 watt power limitation, etc.) you are no longer "licensed by rule".

2nd question is, turns out that those other frequencies I posted are for these racing companies that I will have to be able to communicate with during the Baja 1000 next year. So because they are privately owned, I should be able to operate on them unlicensed because i will be technically affilliated with that company for the week, correct? I'm planning on getting my technicians license, but the rest of my team are not.

You may not operate on these frequencies unless you are licensed. I know the racing community mostly ignores the rules, but if you are asking what the rules are, here they are:

Your team, corporation, company, non-profit group, etc. must be licensed to use those frequencies. By the rules, you are not permitted to use them unless you have a written/signed document from the actual license holder stating that you are permitted to use -their- frequencies. Then, and only then, are you covered under their license. Under the FCC rules, this cannot be a verbal agreement, anything implied, "someone on the internet said", "everyone else does it", "I won't get caught", etc. the rules very clearly say you must have a written agreement -from-the-licensee-.

To confuse matters, you'll be in Mexico. FCC Part 90 licenses (Business/corporate/public safety) are not valid in any way, shape or form in Mexico. The only legal licenses to use in Mexico is one issued by the Mexican government. USA/FCC has precisely -zero- authority in another country, including Mexico. Mexican rules may be lax, but I'd make sure I had my paper work in order.

To top it off, your FCC amateur radio Technician license, or -any/all- other class amateur radio licenses give you NO permission to operate on ANY frequency outside the amateur radio bands. This especially includes business/law enforcement/commercial frequencies.

 

[mmckenna]

If your a employee or work for that said company yes you can operate on its licenses frequencies.

It's not quite that simple. The only one who can authorize someone to operate under a company FCC license is the company that is the licensee. Simply working for a company does not give anyone permission to program up a radio on company frequencies and start using them.

The correct way to do this is to find out who, exactly, is the person in control of the FCC licenses for that company. Talk directly and only to them. Get -everything- in writing, signed and dated. The person/agency/group who holds the license is responsible for -ALL- radios and communications that happen under that license. Popping up unannounced without permission and using an FCC license is very bad form and can get you into a -lot- of trouble. There are many cases of police officers/fire fighters/EMT's programming up their own radios on company/agency/department frequencies without the permission of their employers and ending up looking for a new job.

 

[kixntuff]

Set it as appropriate for each channel. Either one will work for listening, but for transmitting you need to have it correct to be operating within the rules. MURS is what is referred to as "License By Rule". That is FCC jargon for meaning that if you follow all the rules, you are allowed to use the service. If you start operating outside the rules (improper bandwidth, exceeding the 2 watt power limitation, etc.) you are no longer "licensed by rule".



You may not operate on these frequencies unless you are licensed. I know the racing community mostly ignores the rules, but if you are asking what the rules are, here they are:

Your team, corporation, company, non-profit group, etc. must be licensed to use those frequencies. By the rules, you are not permitted to use them unless you have a written/signed document from the actual license holder stating that you are permitted to use -their- frequencies. Then, and only then, are you covered under their license. Under the FCC rules, this cannot be a verbal agreement, anything implied, "someone on the internet said", "everyone else does it", "I won't get caught", etc. the rules very clearly say you must have a written agreement -from-the-licensee-.

To confuse matters, you'll be in Mexico. FCC Part 90 licenses (Business/corporate/public safety) are not valid in any way, shape or form in Mexico. The only legal licenses to use in Mexico is one issued by the Mexican government. USA/FCC has precisely -zero- authority in another country, including Mexico. Mexican rules may be lax, but I'd make sure I had my paper work in order.

To top it off, your FCC amateur radio Technician license, or -any/all- other class amateur radio licenses give you NO permission to operate on ANY frequency outside the amateur radio bands. This especially includes business/law enforcement/commercial frequencies.

MMcKenna,

Thanks very much for all the insight. Very informative for sure. A little run down about the race. Score-International is a massive organization that runs multiple races on the Mexican peninsula every year. They build schools, give relief aid to hurricane victims, use profits and proceeds to benefit the Mexican people etc etc. I know what you're saying about things being a little rogue down there because they really are. I would be willing to bet that Score international and the rest of the race sponsors have some sort of agreement going with the Mexican government. The racers are pretty much treated like kings down there for what they bring to the peninsula. To race in this race, we have to fill out multitudes of forms that to your point probably has something in it pertaining to coms as they call it down there. Your very informative post brings me to a couple more questions that I anticipate another very informative response to.

Some of these racing gear companies are selling their own version of the Baofeng UV-5R's and Kenwood TM-281a's. I know they come preprogrammed to be able to communicate with all the major sponsor, EMS etc etc.

Do you think they are disabling all the functions that would make them legal to use as a ham radio? I know the Kenwood TM-218a will only transmit on the amateur radio band range of 144 to 148mhz because I was looking into buying one myself for the cheapest price I could find it to save a buck and to start to learn amateur radio while obtaining a Tech license. I know they can be modded to Tx outside this range, but that then makes the radio non-compliant with the FCC. Do you think this is happening with the gear companies that are selling these radios and how are they getting around the legality?

Your bandwidth comment is very interesting. I'm still learning all this bandwidth science so bear with me. Last night I went into the menu of my Baofeng UV-82hp and found bandwidth on menu 5. The book says that NB is 12.5khz and that the WB is 25khz. (I don't even want to ask about the deviation, but I will eventually. ha ha)

In saying that, could a Baofeng UV-82hp dial in and Rx and Tx with a MURS radio operating on one of the 5 given frequencies when the MURS radio bandwidth is only 11.25 and 20.0 KHz?

Is bandwidth basically signal strength in that the bandwidth of 12.5 and 25khz gives you a more diverse operating range also making it illegal here in the states under FCC rules and regs?

Am I correct in that I am starting to think that one of the bandwidths, NB or WB is capable of reaching out and doing more things? For example you could Rx and Tx with WB on a frequency that is mandated by the FCC to only be used for NB hence making it illegal?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[WA0CBW]

Bandwidth is the amount of space your signal takes. Think of a channel as a highway with multiple lanes each a certain width. If we narrow each lane then we can get more lanes on the same width highway (but the cars have to be narrower). The channel frequency is the center of each lane and the bandwidth is the total width on each side of center. In the US the FCC narrowed most channels from 25 KHz to 12.5 Khz (commonly called wideband to narrowband). The terms wideband and narrowband are not specific bandwidths but relate to the change from 25 KHz to 12.5 KHz. Some services (i.e. MURS) have a slightly different bandwidth for wide and narrow for Part 95 service. Thus a part 90 radio (although it can be programmed for MURS frequencies) is not certified for MURS part 95 service. Technically a radio in the MURS service can have ONLY those 5 frequencies. Confusing isn't it!
BB

 

[K5MPH]

Those are NOT MURS frequencies and not covered by the FCC Part 95 MURS rules. They are part 90 frequencies and thus needed to be properly licensed as such. Operating on those frequencies would put you in violation of the FCC rules. Does not matter what power level you are running, you must be licensed for those.

Aren't they what they call (DOT) frequencies if so you would need a license........

 

[kixntuff]

Bandwidth is the amount of space your signal takes. Think of a channel as a highway with multiple lanes each a certain width. If we narrow each lane then we can get more lanes on the same width highway (but the cars have to be narrower). The channel frequency is the center of each lane and the bandwidth is the total width on each side of center. In the US the FCC narrowed most channels from 25 KHz to 12.5 Khz (commonly called wideband to narrowband). The terms wideband and narrowband are not specific bandwidths but relate to the change from 25 KHz to 12.5 KHz. Some services (i.e. MURS) have a slightly different bandwidth for wide and narrow for Part 95 service. Thus a part 90 radio (although it can be programmed for MURS frequencies) is not certified for MURS part 95 service. Technically a radio in the MURS service can have ONLY those 5 frequencies. Confusing isn't it!
BB

Well it seams like you did an excellent job explaining this matter and I think I am smelling what you're stepping in. Now lets see how well I understand it. So lets take MURS frequency #1 151.820. If Joe Blow tunes his radio to 151.809, he would still legally be operating within the FCC limits of MURS freq #1, correct? That's 11.25khz below center at 151.820mhz.

Let me one up that question. If Joe Blow was Tx'ing at center of MURS frequency #1, Could Chuck Knuckles Rx him if his radio was tuned to 151.809Mhz?

Thanks!

 

[ecps92]

But he is talking about a country other than the USA, so the FCC rules don't apply, but the the rules/regulations of the CoFeTel do.

CoFeTel is now IFETEL, the Federal Telecommunications Institute.

Aren't they what they call (DOT) frequencies if so you would need a license........

 

[ke6gcv]

Those are NOT MURS frequencies and not covered by the FCC Part 95 MURS rules. They are part 90 frequencies and thus needed to be properly licensed as such. Operating on those frequencies would put you in violation of the FCC rules. Does not matter what power level you are running, you must be licensed for those.

Theoretically speaking, if your place of business runs on the Part 90 freqs listed, then you're technically covered to operate your own radio so long as you're on the clock. The moment you're off the clock and at home, you're not permitted to operate those freqs. But there's nothing saying you can't monitor them.

 

[mmckenna]

Theoretically speaking, if your place of business runs on the Part 90 freqs listed, then you're technically covered to operate your own radio so long as you're on the clock. The moment you're off the clock and at home, you're not permitted to operate those freqs. But there's nothing saying you can't monitor them.

No, because -YOU- are not licensed. The company is licensed and only the licensee and the authorized users can operate under the license. If the licensee allows you to use radios under that license and you are following all the rules that apply to that license, they you are OK. Bringing in your own radio and transmitting with it isn't automatically OK just because you are on the clock.

I have several licenses here at work that I am responsible for. I would happily turn in someone who works here if they suddenly showed up on one of the systems I'm responsible for without my/our OK.

I've had to warn people off our systems before because they assumed they were automatically authorized.
We have a police department and a fire department. One of our plumbers can't just decide to use those frequencies on his/her own radio simply because he works for the same agency as the fire/PD.