RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Commercial, Professional Radio and Personal Radio > Industry Discussion


Industry Discussion - General discussion forum for commercial and professional radio technologies. This includes manufacturers not listed below.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 6:04 PM
KG5HHS's Avatar
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 429
Default AN/PRC Radio's

Hello every,
I apologize if this is not the place for this thread. I wasn't exactly sure where it should go. I have seen a lot of AN/PRC radio's for sale on ebay and know very little about them. So I did very little research on them but found a lot of the same information but not very in depth. I looked at the portables (AN/PRC-148 & AN/PRC-152) And the man packs (AN-PRC 77,113,117,119 & 150). I know these radio's vary in frequency ranges and power outputs, so I'm not really worried about that.
My main question is, what would be the advantage of owning one of these verses your public safety grade Motorola's, Kenwood's, Harris's, ECT. my second question is are these radio field programmable or do they require computer programming (Software, cables, ect.)
Thank you in advance and I'm sure I will have more questions along the way.
__________________
John Longoria
KG5HHS
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:13 PM
RFI-EMI-GUY's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG5HHS View Post
Hello every,
I apologize if this is not the place for this thread. I wasn't exactly sure where it should go. I have seen a lot of AN/PRC radio's for sale on ebay and know very little about them. So I did very little research on them but found a lot of the same information but not very in depth. I looked at the portables (AN/PRC-148 & AN/PRC-152) And the man packs (AN-PRC 77,113,117,119 & 150). I know these radio's vary in frequency ranges and power outputs, so I'm not really worried about that.
My main question is, what would be the advantage of owning one of these verses your public safety grade Motorola's, Kenwood's, Harris's, ECT. my second question is are these radio field programmable or do they require computer programming (Software, cables, ect.)
Thank you in advance and I'm sure I will have more questions along the way.
As far as VHF and UHF stuff. You are better off with commercial public safety gear. I have spent an inordinate amount of time looking at some of the low band equipment (generally 30-88 MHz) and some is pretty cool, but low powered compared to the almighty SyntorX.

I found some European ":Green radios" that go to 26 MHz FM. But they tune 25 KHz steps so as far as FM CB they skip most of the channels.

Most are field programmable or have FPP in addition to any software programming. prc68.com is a place to start research.

I think it is more a cool factor than anything else. Some of this gear like satellite terminals can get you in trouble if you fire them up.

I have some commercial Motorola Systems Sabers, they work great, easy to repair, are cheap and even have DES digital encryption that works well. The military has used these, they are black not green. You will not find any green radios with encryption. If you do, THEY will come knocking.
__________________
"Have Spectrum Analyzer, - Will travel" "Standby for Traffic, Now Going Red"
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:52 PM
prcguy's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,950
Default

I was bitten by the green radio bug as a teenager and that started an insatiable quest for the most current, up to date military radios I could find. Its the lure of the extreme engineering, ruggedness, mil spec components and usually wide frequency range and front panel programming that makes me drool over them.

Problem is if its modern and does some really cool stuff its going to be very expensive. A few of the radios you listed like the PRC-148, PRC-152 and late versions of the PRC-117 have what everybody wants and these radios can fetch many thousands of $$ used surplus. But they can be used on many ham bands and will receive lots of public service transmissions keeping the owner fat with fun.

There are a number of green radios that are a little older but still cover useful frequency ranges and are fun to play with at a more affordable price. The PRC-113 you mention can sometimes be had for under $1k and will get you on 2m amateur and will also monitor VHF and UHF aircraft comms. The Motorola URC-110 is another example that will cover 2m amateur plus receive VHF and UHF aircraft at a somewhat affordable price.

A PRC-119 or any of the SINCARS series is pretty much a one or two channel 6m simplex rig due to its limited channel increments and lack of tuning knob. Same with the PRC-77 or most of the Viet Nam era 30 to 76MHz or later 30 to 88Mhz VHF lo band radios. If you can score a pair of PRC-68 series or its cousins the PRC-125 or 128 you can have a fun pair of handhelds you can legally use on the 6m amateur band and the PRC-68B can also be had with a VHF hi band module that covers the entire VHF hi band in 2.5KHz increments.

If your into HF there are lots of HF manpacks to choose from with popular US versions being the PRC-104, PRC-1099, MP-25 and a few others. Some are very sophisticated and most in this list can be had for less than $1500. Probably the top of the heap in legal to own HF manpacks is the PRC-138 but the latest prices I've seen on these is north of $6k now. The PRC-150 you mention is not legal to own due to embedded Type 1 crypto but there is an "exportable" version without the crypto that is legal to own and if you can find one its going to be really expensive. There are a number of European models that have great features and are more affordable than their US counterparts.

If you want to learn more about different models and specs on green radios I would suggest getting a few copies of "Jane's Military Communications" books that are available on Ebay. These are published every year and will cover all the relevant models for the year of publication. You really need several copies of this book, maybe one from the 80s and 90s that will cover models that are more affordable today and an newer one so you can have something to really drool over. These books are currently over $1k new but show up on Ebay in the $20 to $75 range for older versions and the newer they are the more they cost. I keep about 15 or more of them on hand to help me identify whatever I might come across in my quest for green radios. You can also check out various Yahoo and Google groups that cater to green radio collectors.

There is also a good QST article put out many years ago called "The Green Radio Roundup" that covers many models with explanations on what the radios do, geared toward the amateur operator.

Otherwise I hope you get the opportunity to play with something like a PRC-148 or PRC-152 and compare them with their commercial counterparts. Doing so will answer more of your questions and you will then understand why us green radio guys go out of our way to acquire these rare and beautiful beasts.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 11:04 PM
mancow's Avatar
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: N.E. Kansas
Posts: 5,602
Default

They run in eras, 40s-50s, 60s-70s, 80s-90s, and modern.

80s are the start of the synthesized stuff but it's primitive. The most modern relatively available is the Harris 5800 Falcon series and the Thales PRC-6809. They run around $3500 - $5000 on the used market.

So, the main two hand held wise are often referred to as the PRC-152 and MBITR.
The collector market "152" is the RF-5800 series. They are 152s with non restricted crypto.
MBITRs come in several flavors. All are MBITRs by nature but the collector market ones are PRC-6809s.

In comparison to existing ham and commercial rigs they are pretty basic. Usually you get 30-512 coverage with FM, NFM and AM. Some offer military waveforms like Havequick and Sincgars. Some have proprietary Harris freq hopping called Quicklook 2A with digital encryption. The freq hopping can be defined by entering a set of frequencies or a range with frequencies that can be avoided within. The encryption is defined through the keypad by entering hex values.

The Thales stuff is a bit different. They have a digital mode that operates in both digital clear and digital encrypted (think GE Aegis). Clear is just a CVSD modulated signal. Encrypted can be DES or AES. The values are entered through the software and uploaded during write similar to Motorola ADP encryption. A side note, the modern Thales 6809 export variant of the PRC-148 digital clear is compatible with the Racal MSHR portable radio which is a 148-174 radio meant for the FBI and spook agencies in the 90s. A version was marketed to the SEALs and was 20 meter submersible with no speaker or internal microphone.

So, as I said they are kind of basic but the advantages are mainly environmental. Extreme ruggedezation (if that's a word) is the main feature. They are milled from a block of aluminum. The batteries are very high capacity, the very pinnacle of top performance 18650 cells. They are submersible, have TNC connectors made from hardened almost cutting bit type material that will shred an antenna before ever wearing down. They can power down to 100 mW for extreme close in operations. They are fully keypad programmable for the most part. Accessories consist of various devices but a particularly useful one is the MBITR mobile amplifier charger. You slide the radio in the front and it becomes a 20 watt full range mobile with high power audio amplifier and remote hand held microphone with a full display.

Ultimately they are difficult to find and very pricey. It's one of those things like a classic car. It lacks many of the modern features but there is a charm that only a collector understands.

The HF radios are similar in the sense they don't have many of the features of modern rigs. However, they do offer many of the things that hams often say they want but nobody makes. The main one being ruggedization again. They are submersible, battery operated, often have internal tuners and offer voice squelch and usually some sort of signalling.

I have a Codan 2110 Patrol. It's extremely lightweight. It will run for 42 hours on a battery. It has a lightning fast internal tuner, fully face programmable, extreme DSP voice noise processing, voice detection squelch (actually has no squelch control at all and doesn't need it), and ALE mil standard signalling. The hand held microphone has a full keypad and display. I can put it in my backpack and walk while using it as if I'm at a desk. I've made contacts world wide just strolling around. I have also made contact with a friend with another 2110 using only the 6 foot whip inside my friend's house in his kitchen in Kansas City to Seattle with a solid link. Once you use one you will realize that Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom etc... are selling you junk. Literally garbage. I sold all my ham rigs except the Elecraft KX-3. I use that, the Codan and my Micom 2R. I can't stomach ham rigs now having used those. My friends refer to it as the magic radio as it creates contacts that nothing else does and converts SSB HF audio to something similar to listening to a P25 scanner. The problem is that a new 2110 full kit is around $12,000. I just got lucky, very lucky and was able to piece this one together completely with all options for less than $2500.

Last edited by mancow; 12-06-2018 at 11:25 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 11:26 PM
mancow's Avatar
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: N.E. Kansas
Posts: 5,602
Default

Book a trip to dayton. Message PRC and myself and we can hit the beer shed and have a show and tell session.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 11:30 PM
mancow's Avatar
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: N.E. Kansas
Posts: 5,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFI-EMI-GUY View Post
As far as VHF and UHF stuff. You are better off with commercial public safety gear. I have spent an inordinate amount of time looking at some of the low band equipment (generally 30-88 MHz) and some is pretty cool, but low powered compared to the almighty SyntorX.

I found some European ":Green radios" that go to 26 MHz FM. But they tune 25 KHz steps so as far as FM CB they skip most of the channels.

Most are field programmable or have FPP in addition to any software programming. prc68.com is a place to start research.

I think it is more a cool factor than anything else. Some of this gear like satellite terminals can get you in trouble if you fire them up.

I have some commercial Motorola Systems Sabers, they work great, easy to repair, are cheap and even have DES digital encryption that works well. The military has used these, they are black not green. You will not find any green radios with encryption. If you do, THEY will come knocking.
In my experience nothing compares to the Syntor X / X9000. It is truly phenomenal. The audio is silk and the noise suppression and sensitivity is divine. I was able to intercept the synthesizer divider lines using an Arduino with some custom rolled code and made one into a fully FPP / VFO unit with 256x64 OLED display. I could almost not outrun it when tuning. It switched as fast as I could feed it tuning data. I was able to drive it from 24-88 Mhz roughly. They were the peak of analog. If I ever get my menu coding skills in order I will have one with full yaesu type menu memory scanning and programming with VFO.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 11:58 PM
RFI-EMI-GUY's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancow View Post
In my experience nothing compares to the Syntor X / X9000. It is truly phenomenal. The audio is silk and the noise suppression and sensitivity is divine. I was able to intercept the synthesizer divider lines using an Arduino with some custom rolled code and made one into a fully FPP / VFO unit with 256x64 OLED display. I could almost not outrun it when tuning. It switched as fast as I could feed it tuning data. I was able to drive it from 24-88 Mhz roughly. They were the peak of analog. If I ever get my menu coding skills in order I will have one with full yaesu type menu memory scanning and programming with VFO.
I worked in Shaumburg when the Syntor line was just being rolled out. The engineers were doing amazing things with adaptive synthesizer loop constants to have as low as possible sideband noise while still being able to scan as fast as a Micor. Motorola seems to have relaxed specs since the pinnacle of those years.

I need to get a nice low band unit.

Hmm, your Arduino experiment sounds interesting. I am thinking you could make a Have Quick FHSS like feature synched via GPS 1 PPS and time code plus a key.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
__________________
"Have Spectrum Analyzer, - Will travel" "Standby for Traffic, Now Going Red"
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:12 AM
prcguy's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,950
Default

Yea, apparently mancow knows this genius guy who has been able to backward engineer some stuff and produce working front panels for some radios that were missing front panels and interface Arduinos to other stuff and diddle firmware code and other impossible tasks. Mancow should keep that guy fat and happy at any cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancow View Post
In my experience nothing compares to the Syntor X / X9000. It is truly phenomenal. The audio is silk and the noise suppression and sensitivity is divine. I was able to intercept the synthesizer divider lines using an Arduino with some custom rolled code and made one into a fully FPP / VFO unit with 256x64 OLED display. I could almost not outrun it when tuning. It switched as fast as I could feed it tuning data. I was able to drive it from 24-88 Mhz roughly. They were the peak of analog. If I ever get my menu coding skills in order I will have one with full yaesu type menu memory scanning and programming with VFO.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:41 AM
prcguy's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,950
Default

This is an especially useful thing if you can piece a system together. You would have a stand alone handheld that will do 30 to 512MHz continuous, then slap that into the mobile amplifier/charger and you have a 20W mobile or base unit and the keypad display on the mobile adapter also has a built in mic with PTT and you can remote that on a long cable. You can piece together a similar system with Harris PRC-152 series parts but they are more difficult to find.

Once you play with one you won't sleep very well until you have one. Its just part of the disease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancow View Post
Accessories consist of various devices but a particularly useful one is the MBITR mobile amplifier charger. You slide the radio in the front and it becomes a 20 watt full range mobile with high power audio amplifier and remote hand held microphone with a full display.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:58 AM
mancow's Avatar
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: N.E. Kansas
Posts: 5,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFI-EMI-GUY View Post
I worked in Shaumburg when the Syntor line was just being rolled out. The engineers were doing amazing things with adaptive synthesizer loop constants to have as low as possible sideband noise while still being able to scan as fast as a Micor. Motorola seems to have relaxed specs since the pinnacle of those years.

I need to get a nice low band unit.

Hmm, your Arduino experiment sounds interesting. I am thinking you could make a Have Quick FHSS like feature synched via GPS 1 PPS and time code plus a key.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
Easily. The tuning is fast enough. It's a very convoluted format using 4 bit nibbles wrapped around into bytes using the most significant digit as the strobe. I would have to pull out the docs again to refresh but I used a Saleae logic analyzer to read it and compare to what my device was transmitting. It worked right off the bat with zero modifications needed. When I say fast I mean fast. Tuning data was sent at 115200 and it ate it up asking for more. Basically it's an arduino that takes user keypad input and vfo data and display activity in one unit sending a custom tuning packet at 115200 over RS232 to an arduino mega that drives the divider chip and also does some PL decoding as a test. The 9000 looks for 5k and 6.25k steps so the code detects the inputs and formats them to the step needed. Once you get rolling with it the possibilities are endless.

My ultimate plan was to abandon that and just emulate the EPROM falsing data to it. The uP would think it's on mode 1 all the time but upon each data would be presented dynamically. I'm still mulling this over. Another guy I worked with said it won't work but I still have hope.

This is a snipped of the code and illustrates the weird data format.


byte addr0 = 0x00; // A3, A2, A1, A0* *= inverted bits
byte addr1 = 0x00; // B1, B0* A5, A4 ll
byte addr3 = 0x00; // B5, B4, B3, B2
byte addr4 = 0x00;// B9, B8, B7, B6
//byte addr5 = 0x00;// - - - - -= line is not used and does not get written at all, no address info sent
byte addr6 = 0x0E; // S1, S0, C1, C0 // default to start with all bits on and modify dynamically with bit masking
byte addr7 = 0x0F; // V1, V0, R1, R0 // default to start with all bits on and modify dynamically with bit masking
byte addr2 = 0x00;// 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 // line is all zeroes at all times and only address info sent
// write sequence is 0,1,3,4,7,6,6,2


The synthesizer is divided up into regions so you have to account for that and switch them as you enter them.
byte BshiftAddr4 = (B & 0x3CC) >> 6;
addr4 = BshiftAddr4;

//addr5 doesn't exist**** never written ****address skipped as well****

// <--- 38.1 1 1
if (intermediaterfFrequency < 113800000) {
addr7 = addr7 & 0x0F;
}
// 38.1 --- 47.1 1 0 --- invert these for 0 1
else if (intermediaterfFrequency >= 113800000 && intermediaterfFrequency <= 122800000) {
addr7 = addr7 & 0x07;
}
// 47.1 --- 56.9 0 1 --- invert these for 1 0
else if (intermediaterfFrequency >= 122800000 && intermediaterfFrequency <= 132600000) {
addr7 = addr7 & 0x0B;
}
// 56.9 ---> 0 0
else
if (intermediaterfFrequency > 132600000) {
addr7 = addr7 & 0x03;
}


Thank God I commented the code. This looks like Greek to me and I wrote it. :/

Last edited by mancow; 12-07-2018 at 1:26 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:59 AM
mancow's Avatar
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: N.E. Kansas
Posts: 5,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prcguy View Post
Yea, apparently mancow knows this genius guy who has been able to backward engineer some stuff and produce working front panels for some radios that were missing front panels and interface Arduinos to other stuff and diddle firmware code and other impossible tasks. Mancow should keep that guy fat and happy at any cost.
He runs on beer so I'm trying to keep him happy.

Last edited by mancow; 12-07-2018 at 1:04 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2018, 1:02 AM
iMONITOR's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MACOMB, MI.
Posts: 5,497
Default

You guys might like this site:

Army Radio Sales Company

Army Radio Sales Co.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2018, 2:03 AM
RFI-EMI-GUY's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancow View Post
Easily. The tuning is fast enough. It's a very convoluted format using 4 bit nibbles wrapped around into bytes using the most significant digit as the strobe. I would have to pull out the docs again to refresh but I used a Saleae logic analyzer to read it and compare to what my device was transmitting. It worked right off the bat with zero modifications needed. When I say fast I mean fast. Tuning data was sent at 115200 and it ate it up asking for more. Basically it's an arduino that takes user keypad input and vfo data and display activity in one unit sending a custom tuning packet at 115200 over RS232 to an arduino mega that drives the divider chip and also does some PL decoding as a test. The 9000 looks for 5k and 6.25k steps so the code detects the inputs and formats them to the step needed. Once you get rolling with it the possibilities are endless.

My ultimate plan was to abandon that and just emulate the EPROM falsing data to it. The uP would think it's on mode 1 all the time but upon each data would be presented dynamically. I'm still mulling this over. Another guy I worked with said it won't work but I still have hope.

This is a snipped of the code and illustrates the weird data format.


byte addr0 = 0x00; // A3, A2, A1, A0* *= inverted bits
byte addr1 = 0x00; // B1, B0* A5, A4 ll
byte addr3 = 0x00; // B5, B4, B3, B2
byte addr4 = 0x00;// B9, B8, B7, B6
//byte addr5 = 0x00;// - - - - -= line is not used and does not get written at all, no address info sent
byte addr6 = 0x0E; // S1, S0, C1, C0 // default to start with all bits on and modify dynamically with bit masking
byte addr7 = 0x0F; // V1, V0, R1, R0 // default to start with all bits on and modify dynamically with bit masking
byte addr2 = 0x00;// 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 // line is all zeroes at all times and only address info sent
// write sequence is 0,1,3,4,7,6,6,2


The synthesizer is divided up into regions so you have to account for that and switch them as you enter them.
byte BshiftAddr4 = (B & 0x3CC) >> 6;
addr4 = BshiftAddr4;

//addr5 doesn't exist**** never written ****address skipped as well****

// <--- 38.1 1 1
if (intermediaterfFrequency < 113800000) {
addr7 = addr7 & 0x0F;
}
// 38.1 --- 47.1 1 0 --- invert these for 0 1
else if (intermediaterfFrequency >= 113800000 && intermediaterfFrequency <= 122800000) {
addr7 = addr7 & 0x07;
}
// 47.1 --- 56.9 0 1 --- invert these for 1 0
else if (intermediaterfFrequency >= 122800000 && intermediaterfFrequency <= 132600000) {
addr7 = addr7 & 0x0B;
}
// 56.9 ---> 0 0
else
if (intermediaterfFrequency > 132600000) {
addr7 = addr7 & 0x03;
}


Thank God I commented the code. This looks like Greek to me and I wrote it. :/
Anytime someone says something wont work it means it will!

I really wish I knew how to code. I have dabbled, made simple things work. But it is a specific learned skill and difficult to keep up with all the technology.
__________________
"Have Spectrum Analyzer, - Will travel" "Standby for Traffic, Now Going Red"
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2018, 2:06 AM
RFI-EMI-GUY's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iMONITOR View Post
You guys might like this site:

Army Radio Sales Company

Army Radio Sales Co.
Yup spent hours at that site and others researching the VRM-5080 and almost bought one:

"The Racal VRM-5080 is a modern 50 Watt VHF FM Radio Transceiver designed for installation in armoured or soft-skin military vehicles. The radio covers the 30 to 76 MHz frequency band and comes with an integrated control / keyboard unit with a built in Red LED readout display.

The radio incorporates a built-in test sequence which automatically checks transceiver performance and displays results."

It would be pretty neat to have when zombies start taking over!
__________________
"Have Spectrum Analyzer, - Will travel" "Standby for Traffic, Now Going Red"
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2018, 2:16 AM
mancow's Avatar
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: N.E. Kansas
Posts: 5,602
Default

Yea but look out for freq steps etc... and tones. Some are really limited. In reality a Syntor X9000 will do more than most military rigs if wanting the VHF tactical 30-54 band.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2018, 2:18 AM
mancow's Avatar
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: N.E. Kansas
Posts: 5,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFI-EMI-GUY View Post
Anytime someone says something wont work it means it will!

I really wish I knew how to code. I have dabbled, made simple things work. But it is a specific learned skill and difficult to keep up with all the technology.
I didn't know. I still don't know. I just banged at it using google to research libraries of things I wanted to do then used those as a base to jump from. I probably searched 2000 times but after a while it came together. I literally started from zero and had absolutely no training or education. I learned 100% from google searches.

For me is the problem that nobody ever explains the base concepts. As dumb as it sounds someone needed to tell me that it's all just a big repeating loop. Think of it as a connect 4 or whatever that game was with the checkers you dropped into it or more like an old player piano with the reel with the belt with the holes punched in it. Holes are zeroes and solids are ones. People like who are used to mechanical devices need that physical reference. Once I got my mind around that concept it made sense that it's really no different than a mechanical device but just a virtual one.

Last edited by mancow; 12-07-2018 at 2:26 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2018, 2:14 PM
KG5HHS's Avatar
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 429
Default

Thank you all for the information. It has been extremely helpful. I like the Idea of something small like the AN/PRC-343. I saw one on ebay the other day but can't seem to find one now. Also, I have discovered something called a "Field Phone". How does something like this work?
__________________
John Longoria
KG5HHS
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2018, 2:41 PM
RFI-EMI-GUY's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG5HHS View Post
Thank you all for the information. It has been extremely helpful. I like the Idea of something small like the AN/PRC-343. I saw one on ebay the other day but can't seem to find one now. Also, I have discovered something called a "Field Phone". How does something like this work?
The Personal Role Radio or PRC-343 was made by Marconi-Selex. It goes by the other nomenclature of H4855 . It uses 2.4 GHz frequency hopping spread spectrum (It is not Wifi or BT) and has 512 discrete hopping codes. It is very low power and short range. It requires a headset and is often wired to a field radio in the low band or VHF range so the operator can work short range and medium range.

Its purpose is to be able to communicate with a closely moving team and not be EASILY detected by the enemy. It is not secure by any means with only 512 codes and it does radiate some RF.

It runs on two AA batteries.

Beware the Chinese have cloned this radio and other "green radios" that look alike but have a cheap FRS radio crammed inside. You have to be very careful not to buy phony green radios that are marketed to paint ball enthusiasts. If it looks brand new and sells for 250-400, it could be phony. If it ships from China it surely is.

Milspec Communication | Radio Set AN/PRC-343

http://www.prc68.com

A field phone in its most basic form is a handset, a rotary generator, battery and a ringer that hook up to "field wire" which is insulated plated steel twisted pair. You pick up the handset, spin the handle and all the other phones on the wire buzz or ring. They can communicate great distances. More modern field phones have digital voice communications and have a keypad . These are kind of useless when you connect beyond one pair as they require an electronic switchboard. There is one model that is from Europe and has a self-contained Ethernet packet based router. You can hook a dozen or so to a single twisted pair and have several different conversations on same pair. There is one on e-bay this week, but you can get only one, so no fun.

If you want serious field phones for your doomsday prepper compound, you are better off getting one of those surplus small office PBX's (Avaya?) and wire up a bunch of phones. You can use regular DTMF phones on it, just buy one full feature phone to program the PBX features. You can use with and without regular phone service connected. The intercom feature does all the work.
__________________
"Have Spectrum Analyzer, - Will travel" "Standby for Traffic, Now Going Red"
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2018, 3:00 PM
prcguy's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,950
Default

I have a bunch of PRC-343's and they are interesting for short rangs comms. You can attach high gain antennas and get some surprising range and 10mi line of sight is not out of question. Some models have a dual PTT button with a cable that goes to a secondary radio of your choice so the same headset will work with both radios. I successfully stuck cell phone earbud mics on a couple of mine.

The PRC-343 is very secure against regular folks eavesdropping as you would need to use another 343 to intercept and go through all the code combinations to hear one. Prices can be way high on these and at the time I bough mine they were $200 NIB in almost unlimited qty.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Today, 12:25 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: municipality of great state of insanity
Posts: 281
Default

boy i do love hearing hard core enthusiasts talk shop. even about things that don't (or didn't) interest me.
I had no idea how cool this conversation would be. i just blindly walked in here as someone who is interested in said subject matter purely to learn how to strategically intercept it.

otherwise just keep talking guys. learning thru osmosis.


ummm to keep from possibly killing it by encouraging it, i will try to contribute best i can:

any ideas as to how common usage is with the PRC-343s? just special ops types? more widespread? i am running into IC-F43s (based on default factory freq/oddball modulation usage) and am trying to decide if perhaps i am missing stuff (the grand majority eludes me without a doubt regardless) due to thinking inside the box, the constraints of frequency coverage box that is. The PRC-343s got me thinking about this before but i have never gotten a good grasp as to how much use there is with them or similar types (above 1300mhz) in short range/small unit applications today.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions