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New Public Safety Radio Repeater Law for 2019?

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jesseschulman

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Super new here to the radio world. Working on a huge project that involves about 1M sq ft of production space and we will have a few hundred radios. As part of this project I have been tasked to help from the IT side of things (I'm the closest person to a radio person on site, I manage all of our servers).

One thing that was mentioned was a supposed new federal law that starts Jan 1, 2019. I have been told it states that any building (above some size?) that gets a Certificate of Occupancy after that date requires a radio repeater system for public safety radios.

Does anyone know more details about this? I have done a ton of searching on Google and can't find anything. I must not be using the right search terms.

For reference, this large project is in Johnston County, NC.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Thank you
 

Outerdog

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jesseschulman

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Have a look at these for a primer on the subject. Then contact your local AHJ (building inspections or fire department, prevention division) for specific requirements for your area.

https://www.anixter.com/en_us/resou...p-to-code--public-safety-das-and-nfpa-72.html

https://bearcom.com/bi-directional-...st-responder-codes-for-communication-systems/

Free online access to NFPA 72: https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stan...ds/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=72 (see chapter 24)

Thank you, those articles are super helpful. We have been trying to get some quotes on this type of setup, unfortunately the repeater systems we have been quoted so far are well past $1M. So this is why I am trying to find more information.
 

mmckenna

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It's the NFPA that's doing it, and the requirement would come from the agency that enforces the fire code for your location.

You need to be cautious with these systems. Ideally you need to have a consultant involved. It's not the type of system that an IT department would purchase and install on their own. Usually the requirements include a specifically trained/certified person to do the turn up and testing. Your local AHJ would be the right place to start. They can tell you which radio frequencies need to be supported by the system.

As for prices, they usually run in the "dollars per square foot" range, so $1 million is within the ball park. However, quoting a system will require someone coming out and doing signal level testing at the location. The requirement isn't that a system -has- to be installed, it's that there must be a certain signal strength in a certain percentage of the building. Its usually -95dB over 95% of the building, plus any fire alarm/fire equipment/fire control rooms need to have coverage.

No one can give you an accurate quote unless they come out and do surveys. Depending on the building design, location, existing radio coverage, you may not need a system to cover the entire building.
 

jesseschulman

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It's the NFPA that's doing it, and the requirement would come from the agency that enforces the fire code for your location.

You need to be cautious with these systems. Ideally you need to have a consultant involved. It's not the type of system that an IT department would purchase and install on their own. Usually the requirements include a specifically trained/certified person to do the turn up and testing. Your local AHJ would be the right place to start. They can tell you which radio frequencies need to be supported by the system.

As for prices, they usually run in the "dollars per square foot" range, so $1 million is within the ball park. However, quoting a system will require someone coming out and doing signal level testing at the location. The requirement isn't that a system -has- to be installed, it's that there must be a certain signal strength in a certain percentage of the building. Its usually -95dB over 95% of the building, plus any fire alarm/fire equipment/fire control rooms need to have coverage.

No one can give you an accurate quote unless they come out and do surveys. Depending on the building design, location, existing radio coverage, you may not need a system to cover the entire building.

Very helpful information. My team was not planning to do the install, in fact we have a company that is one of our partners that had another company quote the work. It was basically $100k (not exactly, but close enough) for each frequency band we wanted to support. And they $100k for UPS's for the equipment, and a few hundred thousand for the brains of the system, antennas, and install.

But nobody came out to do any kind of survey besides looking at our building layouts. So that has me very surprised.

Is there any way to check signal strength ourselves? Is there something we can buy that would do this? Our buildings are huge (we have a 100 acre campus) and we could probably have someone from our own team do this if possible to get a good starting point for signal strength. We are very familiar with this process from a WiFI mapping standpoint, we do site surveys with specialized hardware and software for that already, Does NFPA state that all frequencies must be available, or just the ones in use in your town/county?

Thanks again!
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Very helpful information. My team was not planning to do the install, in fact we have a company that is one of our partners that had another company quote the work. It was basically $100k (not exactly, but close enough) for each frequency band we wanted to support. And they $100k for UPS's for the equipment, and a few hundred thousand for the brains of the system, antennas, and install.

But nobody came out to do any kind of survey besides looking at our building layouts. So that has me very surprised.

Is there any way to check signal strength ourselves? Is there something we can buy that would do this? Our buildings are huge (we have a 100 acre campus) and we could probably have someone from our own team do this if possible to get a good starting point for signal strength. We are very familiar with this process from a WiFI mapping standpoint, we do site surveys with specialized hardware and software for that already, Does NFPA state that all frequencies must be available, or just the ones in use in your town/county?

Thanks again!

I am a consultant. And am familiar with Bi-Directional Amps (BDA's in Land Mobile Jargon) and Distributed Antenna Systems (DAS in the Commercial Wireless and IT Jargon).

There is NO out of box solution that fits any particular building. I am aware that some "DAS Vendors" will over specify the work required and put in too much equipment. In Miami a couple years ago a new sky scraper building became a tall noise generator wiping out public safety communications. They had amps and antennas on every floor when in reality only the first three floors and sub floors needed any treatment.

The best way to do this is to contact your local AHJ and Fire Communications Commander and also become familiar with the new NFPA codes.

When I have done this in past (Pre NFPA) we simply surveyed the building using signal measurement equipment to find the dead spots. Then designed a system to fill the dead spots and had the Fire Department run voice radio tests in the buildings to sign off. The NFPA requires a certain signal margin to be attained throughout and in critical locations so that must be tested and confirmed. What NFPA neglects to consider is that a DAS system is simulcasting the signal picked up outside the building and re-radiating it with some amount of delay. This means that at the boundary of the building , outside walls, windows and doors will have a time differential that can cause distortion and voice impairment in digital radios. This means you might have to tread lightly on signal levels and antenna placements at the boundary.

So before you call around and try to get meaningful quotes from equipment vendors engage the assistance of the AHJ and Fire Department to determine what they will require to satisfy the Certificate of Occupancy and engage a neutral consultant, one who isn't trying to sell equipment, to determine the requirements. - Which can be quite complex.

You could do your own testing, but there is the uplink margin antenna factor, body loss, DAQ margin, etc to consider and need to account for in measurements. Unless you have done land mobile signal surveys it is not the place to learn. You don't need ALL frequencies, just the ones your local agency normally uses.
 
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mmckenna

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But nobody came out to do any kind of survey besides looking at our building layouts. So that has me very surprised.


It's possible to take a look at the building design, building materials, and come up with an idea of how much the signals can be attenuated. They can also look at transmitter output power, free space losses, etc, and get a pretty good idea of what the signal strength -should- be that's available to the donor antenna.
However, to completely design a system based off that can be a bit sketchy. Not totally impossible, but it would raise some concerns. Mistakes this early in the planning can lead to costly change orders.

Is there any way to check signal strength ourselves? Is there something we can buy that would do this? Our buildings are huge (we have a 100 acre campus) and we could probably have someone from our own team do this if possible to get a good starting point for signal strength. We are very familiar with this process from a WiFI mapping standpoint, we do site surveys with specialized hardware and software for that already,

Not really.
If the agency is on a trunked radio system, you can listen to the control channel and plot the signal strength, however, and ideally, there needs to be some DAQ numbers, and that requires two way communications.

Does NFPA state that all frequencies must be available, or just the ones in use in your town/county?

It's up to the AHJ (Agency Having Jurisdiction) as to what frequencies need to be covered.
The systems that provide the indoor coverage are not wide band, they are usually set up for the uplink/downlink frequencies for a BDA based system for trunking, or channelized system that is tuned specifically for the frequencies in use.

If this is a large campus, as in multiple buildings, or future plans for multiple buildings, consider a centralized system. The head end will pick up the necessary signals and send them out to the buildings over fiber optic cable that you likely already have for your data network. At each building, the necessary conversion/amplification equipment will distribute out to the antennas inside the building. For multiple buildings, a centralized system can be a cheaper approach.

A good resource is these guys: https://rfsignalman.com/fire-code-radio-coverage/
 

mancow

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Wait, so above a certain size they have to purchase infrastructure for the local PS agencies?
 

ElroyJetson

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DO NOT ASK ME FOR HELP PROGRAMMING YOUR RADIO. NO.
That doesn't even make any sense. I can understand the in-building coverage angle but even that isn't something that can be fixed by saying "Install a site in this building".

I can understand if a law were to say "A building above a certain size/occupancy must provide public safety system infrastructure provisions IF DETERMINED TO BE NEEDED by the relevant authorities, but to just say "Big enough, gotta have that" is so silly I'd have to think that only Congress could cook up such a ridiculous notion.

I've helped sort out a hospital that had serious communications issues that were brought on by another vendor that tried to solve a coverage problem by just adding more signal strength. Problem is, doing that created intermod problems that actually made in-building coverage WORSE, not better.

The problems were sorted out by intelligent antenna relocation and some system frequency changes, and turning the power level back down. Suddenly we had a happy hospital.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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The OP needs to talk to the AHJ and FD in his locale to obtain the relevant local codes. And should engage a vendor neutral consultant before talking to various DAS vendors about pricing. Those vendors might want to sell the whole wireless spectrum DAS solution, when all that is needed legally is public safety enhancements.

The local AHJ and Fire Department will dictate what buildings (purpose, size and construction) require in-building coverage testing and enhancements (DAS/BDA). There is nothing in NFPA that requires a system to be installed unless the minimum signal levels are not maintained. There is a 90% requirement for general areas and 99% coverage in some critical areas. If the new building is near an already existing tower on the system half the battle might be won. But with the square footage he describes, there are likely going to be dead spots.

Here is some local code from California.

http://web.stanford.edu/group/lbre_...mergency_Responder_Radio_Coverage_Systems.pdf
 
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DaveNF2G

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What is the enabling legislation for this new regulation? This amounts to a tax on building size, which can only be imposed by Congress. Any NFPA regulation having the same effect must be authorized by federal statute.
 

mrsvensven

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What is the enabling legislation for this new regulation? This amounts to a tax on building size, which can only be imposed by Congress. Any NFPA regulation having the same effect must be authorized by federal statute.

It's part of the building code enforced by the local authorities. While it is becoming common pretty much everywhere, It's nothing national and isn't being imposed on building owners directly by NFPA.

New energy efficient building materials block RF (even new glass!). When you build a new building you have to install a booster or else you are going to have at least a couple dead spots inside your structure unless you're practically next door to the radio tower.

At least around here, this law only affects new construction or major renovations, so it isn't really a tax ln tax on large buildings any more than requiring fire alarms, sprinklers, and emergency stairways is.

Wait, so above a certain size they have to purchase infrastructure for the local PS agencies?

It depends how you define infrastructure. What is required is a Bi-Directional or Uni-Directional Amplifier. It is fixed infrastructure that repeats FD radio transmissions but isn't usually directly connected to their radio system or owned by the FD. It does transmit on FD frequencies though, so it must be licensed by the FD with the FCC and approved by the Fire Department. Usually the FD will require testing and regular inspections by their technicians or engineers just like they do for fire alarm systems.
 
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12dbsinad

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It's because the NFPA is run by a bunch of lobbyist's and they'll recommend whatever fattens their wallets, regardless if it's practical or not, or come up with a blanket set of rules. BDA's is one of them.

IMHO, BDA's cause more problems in the real world then what they solve. You can trace BDA problems even to the cell industry as they wanted them banned, LMR is no exception.

What people seem to forget is that BDA's regurgitate whatever noise and RFI that's in the building and pumps it back out thru it's directional antenna pointed at the system repeaters. The lower in frequency your system, the worse it is. You add many units together and you will have problems with the system itself. That doesn't even count oscillating BDA's that are incorrectly installed, or some Joe Schmoe who doesn't know what these antenna's are and moves one, or disconnects one or more. Plus, what happens when the City/town changes/modifies their operating frequencies? Who's going to go around and pay for replacement/re-tuning of boat loads of BDA's?

As you can tell, I have my opinions on them. I try to look at things in real world scenarios and not coming out of a NFPA ruling. On paper, it works. I am a firm believer that Public Safety systems should be entirely owned and maintained by the Municipality, not inspected and owned privately were the cable guy can pop a ceiling tile and move it, causing life or death radio problems. Additionally, can you really rely on them when the building is on fire and melts the coax, etc? Then what? 2 cans and a string?

Instead of these insane requirements, each structure should be handled on a case by case basis and instead of having the building owner pay 50-100K dollars on a BDA, money should go to the city for communications upgrades. The reason being, that 100K if spent correctly may cover 20 buildings or more with decent RF coverage if the system keeps getting enhanced, and it'll all be city owned.

Besides, isn't that what we pay taxes for?? Nevermind... I won't even go there...
 
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Thunderknight

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We have a complex here in the nearby city that had entire levels of no public safety system coverage...one of the cell carriers put in a fiber fed DAS for them, but with the ability to add other providers. One of those providers added was the 800 MHz trunked system for public safety. Now there is great portable coverage throughout, something that never existed before. (and one of the trunked sites is a 1/4 mile away, but this complex has so much concrete and basements it didn't matter).

It's *all* about proper engineering. A well engineered system can work *really well*. A poorly engineered system can be a disaster.

Remember that a DAS can be built with a headend site and not a BDA. No amplification of noise because the RF is originating at the headend. Not really feasible for a single warehouse or store, but makes a lot of sense for a large mall, convention center, etc. That headend RF can be a different RF channel(s), so the radios roam to the new site as they enter the complex (in a trunking environment). While yes, it requires licensing, frequencies and backhaul, it eliminates interference issues at the portals (doors, windows), as long as the roaming thresholds are well set. Again, not feasible for every warehouse store, but makes more sense for large complexes that have a regular PS presence.

Signal boosters (BDAs) do not, in most circumstances, require separate licensing...Class A (channelized) do not require registration, Class B (wideband) do require registration (signalboosters.fcc.gov). As long as they are operated within the licensed area and not to extend the licensed area and meet the FCC's technical specifications for a signalbooster.
 

mmckenna

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Additionally, can you really rely on them when the building is on fire and melts the coax, etc? Then what? 2 cans and a string?

I won't touch on the annoyance with the NFPA, other than I agree with some of what you are saying. I'll also add that most of us don't have the authority to overrule the local fire inspector. So, like most things, we have to play nice.

As for fire melting the coax, the rules are the coax is required to be in conduit. Equipment rooms must be fire rated. 24 hour battery backup is required. Alarming must be included to alert of failures, malfunctions, etc. Usually there is also a requirement for a master "kill switch" on them so the fire department can take them out of service if they start causing issues.
As for self oscillation, many of the systems I've looked at monitor for that and will shut down on their own.

Of course protecting coax in conduit doesn't do anything for the antennas. Most of the indoor antennas I've seen sold for this purpose wouldn't last more than a few minutes if exposed to a fire.

Add in that any fire ground radio is usually simplex, it certainly does leave you scratching your head over this.

We're approaching this as a head end type system at work. We enjoy a robust fiber plant, so hauling the signals around to individual buildings isn't an issue. We're already running our fire alarm system over fiber.

We're also looking at this as a way to improve coverage for law enforcement. Of course they don't need the fire rating, but we'll put it in as one complete system.



Instead of these insane requirements, each structure should be handled on a case by case basis and instead of having the building owner pay 50-100K dollars on a BDA, money should go to the city for communications upgrades. The reason being, that 100K if spent correctly may cover 20 buildings or more with decent RF coverage if the system keeps getting enhanced, and it'll all be city owned.

It is done on a case by case basis. The systems only need to be installed if they don't have sufficient radio coverage inside the building. Yeah, the radio system should have enough design in it that this isn't an issue, but that doesn't take into account new energy efficiency rules regarding "Low-E" glass, steel reinforced concrete, all those other things that block RF so well.

BDA's are generally frowned upon by those in the know, but for some cheap installers, they are the solution that gets chosen. Most building owners/architects, etc. don't know the difference. All they know is that the fire marshal says they gotta do it.


The fire code thing aside….
I've talked with a few industry leaders and one area that is being looked at is how to better approach this. Most radio guys know that in-building coverage systems are expensive, fragile, are sources of noise, etc.
One idea that is getting tossed about (again, NOT fire service related necessarily) is to develop an add on to the 802.11 standard for WiFi systems that requires (or strongly encourages) a specific public safety SSID that would allow the new crop of WiFi/LTE capable public safety radios to authenticate with the system automatically and access their radio system that way. It would be a much lower cost solution, serve more people (potentially).
Of course there would be a lot of challenges with that. People would abuse it. People would hack it. I'm sure the amateur radio "emcomm" guys will demand ham radio access, etc.

But I digress.

Yeah, it's an expensive solution. They are risky if not done right. The real challenge is the energy efficient building materials that are causing this.
 

mmckenna

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It's *all* about proper engineering. A well engineered system can work *really well*. A poorly engineered system can be a disaster.

And there is no shortage of "certified installers" who took a few day course from a manufacturer and are now putting these systems up. Kind of like traditional electrical contractors that suddenly go into the data communications/fiber optic business.

Some jurisdictions require the system to be engineered, installed, tested and maintained by someone with a valid FCC GROL. Seems like a good approach. I've lost track of the number of people I know who suddenly became BDA system installers….
 
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