Marshall County ---Pro-Voice/Encryption

[Haley]

Just read in the local paper that Marshall county has recieved federal money to upgrade their radios. According to the article they are going to be "Encryption capable and Provoice enabled". Didnt know if anyone knew of this. I have noticed the local PD and Sheriff radios have been a bit quite lately, and wondered if they might be testing the radios out. This is the hometown of RACOM. Anyone with a little more insight? Mike

[mikeydcg2003]

Wouldn't suprize me. Polk County has been slowly heading that way. I don't know why they would have to encrpyt provoice as it isn't scanable

[Haley]

I think the reporter may have not totally understood how the system works. I am assuming the new radios would be PROVOICE capable, and maybe have ESK features also. Maybe I am off the mark, that is possible isnt it? I have also noticed a lot of radio testing and strange talkgroups showing up lately. Mike

[w0fg]

I have heard that most of the state agency EDACS groups are also upgrading to PROVOICE in the near future.

[Haley]

Well I guess I knew it would happen sooner or later. Thats not going to be too good for monitoring in this state, since RACOM has quite a few trunked systems around here. I guess its a good thing I listen to the railroad also! Mike

[Radioman96p71]

ProVoice yes, encryption is not likely. There are a few 'sensitive' talkgroups down in Polk Co that are PV but no encryption. GIDs are in the 400s

Most 'task force' channels are AEGIS currently but are not encrypted. I have it on good info that they will not encrypt simply because it is too much work to keep track of the keys and to reflash the radios in the event they lose their key. Portables are required to dump their keys on removal of the battery for FIPS compliance, so if an officer kills his radio on accident he loses all his secure channels. Same goes for the mobiles in the car. For most departments, PV is secure enuf to keep all but the most serious 'monitors' at bay.

I have been tracking a lot of these new GIDs and it seems Marshall Co will be switching over within a couple months exclusively to PV from AEGIS. On a positive note, because of circumstances in the county, the link to Sheriff TAC on 159.0900MHz will remain, so you can still monitor dispatch traffic.

[bar422]

I wonder if other users of the Racom system are going to change too? It probabaly comes down to money so they may have to wait awhile. Has anyone heard anything? I heard that Racom has been spending alot of time in the Cedar Rapids area lately but not sure.

[Haley]

Thanks Radioman, that makes me feel a little better. I always have the VHF simulcast channels programmed as back-ups (along with the mutual aid channels). I assume Marshall County wouldnt have done this without the Federal money they recieved. Hopefully not all RACOM users will end up doing this. Mike

[Haley]

I thought of one more question maybe somebody could answer. I mainly use a PRO-96, and BC246T for monitoring. So when Marshalltown goes Provoice, all my ICALLS, and talkgroups will not show up, or will they actually still be on the screen,but without audio. Mike

[Radioman96p71]

Haley, Pro-Voice will not effect I-Calls or Analog GIDs, just the channels that are digital now will be switched to PV from AEGIS. Before that is set in stone, EDACS does support digital I-Calls, but i have yet to see it implemented.

Not sure what is going on in CR, i know that Iowa City is looking to get a P25 EDACS TRS from RACOM for their Fire and Public Safety depts. RACOM is expanding a lot lately in Iowa, i wouldn't be surprised if they took the Cedar Rapids area too.

For now, RACOM seems to only use digital modes where they are specifically required. Iowa law requires all warrant information to be 'secured' where possible. Which means if the traffic goes over a radio system that has digital potential, it should be implemented. Same goes for In-car terminals. Not all agencies follow this law because of the high price of digital radios, but with the EDACS network, digital GIDs are as easy as flipping a switch, so I think we will start to see a LOT more digital. Especially on new systems. A P7100 radio costs about 2500 each, for 250 more (roughly) they can add PV or P25 digital, thats a pretty easy sell to a department already spending close to half a million for a new system.

Times are changing i just hope we can keep enjoying our hobby for years to come!

[pm1072]

Going to Provice will kill their Interoperability capabilities, as soon in years to come, P25 will be mandated by the FCC for public safety. In additon, areas that use Provoice (which can't be scanned), as well as P-25 with encryption, don't mind the fact that if you're in public safety and are getting your ass-kicked by scumbags that it's obvious the public will not be able to hear, neither the state troopers. Until there's a scanner for ProVoice, I look at it is a safety issue and also a waste of money if people are going to turn around and be mandated to P25 in the years to come. ProVoice is obviously a lot different than P25.

[rdale]

ProVoice systems can interop with P25 just fine, it works flawlessly in central Michigan (one county with ProVoice 800 EDACS is linked to MPSCS P25, UHF analog EDACS, and UHF conventional.)

[w8jjr]

Originally Posted by pm1072

P25 will be mandated by the FCC for public safety. .

Where does this come from ? FCC has no control over this.

[Radioman96p71]

The P25 requirement inst mandated by law, but in order to get federal funding you have to make NEW systems P25 compatible. PV is NOT P25. yes they use the IMBE vocoder, but they are not the same. There is lots of discussion on the topic. I agree, it is a big mistake for RACOM to be forcing PV on their customers, but they have a secret weapon, all the radios they sell now can be seamlessly transferred to P25 by ProFile programming.

If Michigan is anything like Omahas system, they have patch links between the P25 and PV systems. A PV radio and P25 radio talking to each other.

On the bright side, if you spend some cash you can always buy a LPE-200, 700p or P7100 and monitor your local PV GIDs!! That is till they go ESK....

[Haley]

Thanks for all the info everyone! I guess I will countinue to listen to the ISP, and some of the smaller depts. around here. Mike

[rdale]

Originally Posted by Radioman96p71

The P25 requirement inst mandated by law, but in order to get federal funding you have to make NEW systems P25 compatible.

I just turned in grant forms for federal homeland security funding for (egads) a conventional, analog upgrade to our county's system. And it's valid. Not quite sure what you're trying to say...

[Radioman96p71]

I guess i should have worded that better. New digital systems. They are trying to discourage new TRS from being all these weird formats that are not cross-compatible. I don't know if it will ever work or not but it sounds good in theory. One way or another someone (usually the end user) will get screwed.

[pm1072]

Originally Posted by Radioman96p71

I guess i should have worded that better. New digital systems. They are trying to discourage new TRS from being all these weird formats that are not cross-compatible. I don't know if it will ever work or not but it sounds good in theory. One way or another someone (usually the end user) will get screwed.

I tend to agree with your last comment, about the end user getting screwed, particularly if the right person isn't doing the planning and asking all the right questions. That's what it boils down to. I know a lot about these systems from over the years.

As for the one fellow that's getting a grant for (egads) as he mentions, if it's conventional and analog, then more power to him. I would expect the supplier/shop to know enough to go ahead and do a little bit of changes/tweaks on their system to make it narrowband compliant for the future. As long as it's narrowband, then P25 can be added later, depending on what kind of repeater they are getting. If it's an odd-ball non-P25 type, then as for interoperability in the future, they'll have to turn around and buy additional equipment or replace the whole thing in a few years.

It just depends on whether the person making the decision is surrounded by others that have knowledge, and not just a swift salesman pushing a product (showing off all the 'bells and whistles') where they know they'll be making another sale in just a few years.

Anyways, my .02 worth on this, and I shall say no more. :-)

[g5turbo81]

May I ask where you received your information regarding Iowa City switching to P25 EDACS?

Originally Posted by Radioman96p71

Haley, Pro-Voice will not effect I-Calls or Analog GIDs, just the channels that are digital now will be switched to PV from AEGIS. Before that is set in stone, EDACS does support digital I-Calls, but i have yet to see it implemented.

Not sure what is going on in CR, i know that Iowa City is looking to get a P25 EDACS TRS from RACOM for their Fire and Public Safety depts. RACOM is expanding a lot lately in Iowa, i wouldn't be surprised if they took the Cedar Rapids area too.

For now, RACOM seems to only use digital modes where they are specifically required. Iowa law requires all warrant information to be 'secured' where possible. Which means if the traffic goes over a radio system that has digital potential, it should be implemented. Same goes for In-car terminals. Not all agencies follow this law because of the high price of digital radios, but with the EDACS network, digital GIDs are as easy as flipping a switch, so I think we will start to see a LOT more digital. Especially on new systems. A P7100 radio costs about 2500 each, for 250 more (roughly) they can add PV or P25 digital, thats a pretty easy sell to a department already spending close to half a million for a new system.

Times are changing i just hope we can keep enjoying our hobby for years to come!

[Radioman96p71]

Can't tell you exactly where i got it from but i can say it came from the people responsible for putting in the bid. No word on if they were awarded or not, but it was in the works.