FYI Butler County 800 MHz radio implementation

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dbentley445

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Here is some information I received about Butler County 800 MHz radio implementation will be on Monday February 21st, there will be a test of the system “site Trunking” failure. If that test goes will they will begin activating all the users of the system. The information stated that they will eventually remove all 400 MHz radios and repeaters.
 

SCPD

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Don't get rid of your 400's yet folks... This is a slow transition and only a select group will be up the 21st. A second group will be up the 22nd but there are still several agencies using 400 until we get this system 100% up and running. You will hear more on the BU 800 system in the near future...



Here is some information I received about Butler County 800 MHz radio implementation will be on Monday February 21st, there will be a test of the system “site Trunking” failure. If that test goes will they will begin activating all the users of the system. The information stated that they will eventually remove all 400 MHz radios and repeaters.
 

shrek06

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Has anyone heard any updates? I had thought EMS was going to be the only one converting. However, I heard that El Dorado, KS PD and FD will be converting too.
 

SCPD

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The entire county is migrating to the 800 system. The transition is being done in chunks, but all county emergency services will be moving to the 800 system.
 

dgruver911

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Newton, KS
Hearing a little more each day. Does anyone have a list or a good handle on radio numbers for Butler County units? Might help to identify talkgroups and users. I did ID 2271 as Event 2 this morning. Douglass Fire units were heard on 2337 and 2288 appears to be a second Sheriff Dispatch channel but without knowing unit numbers its hard to tell how it is set up...North/South, County/Small towns, etc.
 

shocker81

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Well today on Sunday, I have been enjoying listening to Augusta P.D. and the Augusta F.D. on 2324.
Today is the first day I have heard anything on this TG. I am still just hearing El Dorado P.D. intermittenly. So they must not be piggybacking the KHP like Augusta is. I have heard Augusta all day with no problems at all.
 

n0lqt

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Butler County system Talk Group usage

OK, I started moniotring just the Butler County system this weekend. I assumed that since KDOT likes things nice and organized, they would group all the talk groups for one county in one place. So, I entered talk groups 2260 (where Finney County presumably ends) thru 2365 (where Reno County picks up) in a scanlist and just listened for those groups. Turns out KDOT didn't disappoint me.....

This has helped identify a number of TG's like Augusta PD (2324) Benton Fire (2332) and a couple more I'm not positive on yet. After eliminating the known groups, there are a number of TG's not yet identified that have been in use over the last couple of days.

TG.........Hits
============
2288......359 (Some sort of Fire channel)
2357........41
2355........25
2300........13
2286........10
2326..........5
2278..........3
2320..........3
2350..........3
2325..........1
2341..........1
2344..........1
2354..........1​

I plan on leaving this arrangement running for about a week to see what else is coming up. If someone else has some ideas on what these groups are, let us know here and we will see if we can confirm and then submit it for the database.....
 

n0lqt

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OK, with some anonymous help, we've been able to get a preliminary identification on quite a few talkgroups in the Butler County group so far. There are a few still that have not been identified and there is repeated traffic on those talkgroups.

TG 2286....about a dozen hits over the weekend
TG 2288.....definitely some sort of LAW Talk/Event, probably Interagency with several hundred hits in a few days
TG 2300....several dozen hits over the weekend​

As soon as I actually am able to better confirm some of the identifications I've made, I'll go ahead and submit them to the database for posting. And then after that... RENO COUNTY..... I have also sent in a FOI request to KDOT to obtain a complete list of coordinated talkgroups in the KSICS network. I haven't heard back yet other than the automated response as to whether they will be willing to provide it or not though. I am hoepful though....
 
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shocker81

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Well from what I have noticed by the radio traffic I believe that 2288 is the KHP in Butler County.
They use the KHP 10 codes, such as 10-66 and 10-67 for bulletins and alerts.
 

shocker81

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I did not hear anything out of Augusta PD all day today. They must have turned their digital off, because they were quiet all day.
 

SCPD

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I did not hear anything out of Augusta PD all day today. They must have turned their digital off, because they were quiet all day.

They have been on all day and are on 800 primarily for their radio system now. Not sure why you aren't hearing them..
 

dgruver911

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On the UHF system they had a Sheriff channel and a County PD's channel...2288 must be the County PD's TG as I hear a wide variety of radio numbers on it, and a more narrow range on 2281 Sheriff Dispatch. I have not heard any KHP units on the Butler TG range.
 

n0lqt

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They have been on all day and are on 800 primarily for their radio system now. Not sure why you aren't hearing them..

I just wish someone would show Augusta 140 that little switch on the radio that says NORM/ENCRYPT. It gets annoying hearing one side in the clear and everything he/she says is full time encrypted....
 

KAA951

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I just wish someone would show Augusta 140 that little switch on the radio that says NORM/ENCRYPT. It gets annoying hearing one side in the clear and everything he/she says is full time encrypted....

Interesting- from what I have heard so far on the system encryption has been automatically programmed by talk group. Letting the end user manage it is just asking for trouble!
 

nec911

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Interesting- from what I have heard so far on the system encryption has been automatically programmed by talk group. Letting the end user manage it is just asking for trouble!

Can you imagine what that would do for being interoperable if they allowed user interface to decide that?
 

firefive76

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Interesting- from what I have heard so far on the system encryption has been automatically programmed by talk group. Letting the end user manage it is just asking for trouble!

I know Coffey County selects by radio if they want to be encrypted or not. Also, pretty sure that WL&P radios are set up this way.
 
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SCPD

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I don't see how allowing the user to select encryption could be "asking for trouble," nor how it would have anything to do with interoperability. It creates a situation for those wanting to hear on scanners, yes, but I can make several strong arguments for it. Working in law enforcement, we have lost 50 officers so far this year in the line of duty, in less than 3 months! In January alone, 53 officers were shot. Encryption is something that we use for the safety of officers - not just to be super secret, contrary to popular belief...

As far as interoperability, all of our local units have the same encryption keys so we can all talk to each other encrypted. As far as State/National interoperability it is real simple....we turn it off.

I know a lot of people in the scanner world enjoy listening to scanners, as do I, but there is not a valid argument for not encrypting other than "I want to hear what's going on." I don't want to start a war on here, but I want to point out that there are legitimate safety reasons for the use of encryption and the officers having the ability to do it at the radio level is not a bad thing... The other option could be encrypt all the time.
 

dgruver911

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I don't think anyone wants to argue that encryption has it's place. But I think this situation points to a different issue...agencies switching to a new system with lots of bells and whistles, with (and I'm making some assuptions here) probably very limited training coupled with the desire to get in and play and push buttons without understanding the consequences or results. My point? He probably doesn't have any idea how he turned encryption on, or does not even know it is on!. The receiving radios, if encryption capable, will hear him regardless. The problem will come in when dealing with another agency who does not have encryption (or the same key), and they won't be able to hear him, and all the while he may not even understand why because he doesn't know he is encrypted. I'm a firm believer that encryption should not be allowed on ANY primary dispatch channel for that very reason, among others.
 

KAA951

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I don't see how allowing the user to select encryption could be "asking for trouble," nor how it would have anything to do with interoperability. It creates a situation for those wanting to hear on scanners, yes, but I can make several strong arguments for it. Working in law enforcement, we have lost 50 officers so far this year in the line of duty, in less than 3 months! In January alone, 53 officers were shot. Encryption is something that we use for the safety of officers - not just to be super secret, contrary to popular belief...

As far as interoperability, all of our local units have the same encryption keys so we can all talk to each other encrypted. As far as State/National interoperability it is real simple....we turn it off.

I know a lot of people in the scanner world enjoy listening to scanners, as do I, but there is not a valid argument for not encrypting other than "I want to hear what's going on." I don't want to start a war on here, but I want to point out that there are legitimate safety reasons for the use of encryption and the officers having the ability to do it at the radio level is not a bad thing... The other option could be encrypt all the time.

You misunderstand the point I was making. I have no issue with the use of encryption by officers- however it needs to be structured. The use of encryption on the Johnson County system is an example- dispatch talkgroups are in the clear and automatically when an officer changes to a tactical or car to car channel the conversation is encrypted. The danger I see is exactly what was pointed out in this instance- an officer thinks he pushed the encryption button and says something over the air that should not be in the public domain. Based on the description given, no one (except us "bad guys" listening to scanners) would be the wiser. The conversation would go on with one side encrypted and the other side not.

I am simply stating that setting up encryption by specifc talkgroup (have talkgroups labeled as secure etc) is a safer method than having an end user select encryption randomly. It greatly simplifies matters for end users and creates (at least) the appearance of being open to public scrutiny on dispatch channels.

As far as interoperability. You can't have it both ways- encryption can't be a vital safety necessity for law enforcement to operate AND something you can just turn off in an emergency when multiple agencies respond. If it is an officer safety issue, then the danger increases during an event- not decreases. By this reasoning, encrypting the car to car conversation about Ms. O'Leary calling again about the ghosts in her attic is more of an officer safety issue than responding to and operating at a terrorist event!

If you decide to encrypt, you may have interoperability with local units within your own agency- but unless the state dictates a single encryption key for the whole system and every radio operating on it then you have an interop problem. The last word I heard on this was that KDOT had forbidden the use of encryption on any of the state mutual aid / interop template talkgroups. They were looking at adopting a standard key- but they are a bit late. Remember, they do not own all the subscriber units on their system and if they dictate a common key they will require reprogramming of all the radios (which is running $50 a unit).

BTW- could you please let me know where you found data on the number of law enforcement officer shot by month? I generally keep up on officer safety issues and that sounds like it would be a good site to monitor. Feel free to PM me.
 
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