Shawnee County chooses Motorola P-25 system

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KAA951

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After a very contentious bid process in which Motorola and Cassidian faced off- literally debating one another yesterday in front of the county commission- the Shawnee County Commission unanimously voted to buy a 6 site Motorola P-25 system to replace their aging Motorola Type II analog system.

County chooses Motorola for 911 radio system | CJOnline.com

The system includes 6 trunked radio sites, a 7 site VHF-high band paging system for fire departments, county-wide fire station alerting systems and over the air encryption key management (KMF). They also purchased equipment to link the new system with the state KSIC system.

If you watch the video in the link, you will see that the intent is to encrypt portions of the system (e.g. tactical police comms) but leave the dispatch channels open. Of course, with the KMF option they purchased they could seamlessly change which radios and talkgroups are encrypted / open at will.
 

PVPD730

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Of course, with the KMF option they purchased they could seamlessly change which radios and talkgroups are encrypted / open at will.

Pretty much the same thing KCPD has been doing since their new system was brought online. TPD Chief Miller (also former chief of KCK) is a very reasonable guy. He lectured at some of our criminal justice classes years ago...very sharp and level headed, so I'm sure he'll try to find a balance that keeps everyone happy. Don't know much about the SNCO Sheriff, but it sounds like he's thinking along the same lines as Ron Miller which should be a sigh of relief to scanner users and media folk.
 

KAA951

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Shawnee County Radio Problems

The Shawnee County dispatch system has failed tonight. Dispatch is unable to page out fire stations at all and is having to use portable radios in the dispatch center to communicate with units.

Pretty sad that they don't have an alternate PSAP in place that they can use. Really inexcusable for a county with a population nearing 150,000 citizens...

The new system can't be in place soon enough!
 

cinsu

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According to the August newsletter from the Shawnee County Sheriff's Office, "Four representatives from Motorola met with the SCECC Management Board on Friday, June 22, 2012 for a P25 digital radio system 'project kickoff.' Motorola presented an outline for prioritizing and accomplishing tasks in the near future. The timeline has yet to be determined but Motorola anticipates the project to be complete within a year. The first hurdle will be to identify land for radio tower installation and to proceed with acquisition and construction. The current Shawnee County 800 MHz system operates from two county towers, at Burnett’s Mound and 57th/Valencia. By agreement, the Shawnee County radio system also ties into the state tower at 220 S.W. Gage. The new P25 system will be a six-site system, utilizing those three towers, an additional existing tower in the downtown area, a new tower constructed on existing county land near Rossville, and a new tower built on acquired land in the southeast quadrant of Shawnee County."

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mancow

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6 sites, oh hell... another simulcast?

They already share the same freqs as KCMO. From where I'm at, right in the middle, it will sound like the military has set up a jammer on 800 MHz.

At this rate the only thing I will be able to hear is the State system since the JoCo 700 system is a multipath simulcast swamp.
 

cinsu

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6 sites, oh hell... another simulcast?

They already share the same freqs as KCMO. From where I'm at, right in the middle, it will sound like the military has set up a jammer on 800 MHz.

At this rate the only thing I will be able to hear is the State system since the JoCo 700 system is a multipath simulcast swamp.

They also share a few freqs with Wichita and regularly experience skip. Hopefully the new system is setup on new freqs to prevent some of those issues although that won't help the simulcast multi path mess.

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KAA951

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The current Shawnee County 800 MHz system operates from two county towers, at Burnett’s Mound and 57th/Valencia. By agreement, the Shawnee County radio system also ties into the state tower at 220 S.W. Gage.

I hope the engineers know more than the person who wrote the article for the newsletter! The existing "Topeka / Shawnee County" system was actually first built by the State of Kansas as a prototype site for their plans to trunk the entire state (1994 +/-). The primary site for this 800 system has always been the KDOT tower at I-70 and Gage Blvd. Later (1996-7ish), Topeka / Shawnee county entered into an agreement with the state and expanded the 6 channel system to 15 channels and added the multicasting site at 57th and Valencia.

The tower site on Burnett's Mound is not part of the existing 800 system. It holds the current VHF paging transmitter (referred to as the east tower- though it is pretty central in the county) used by the county fire departments. There is also a "west tower" VHF paging transmitter at the 57th/Valencia site.

The new P-25 system will be a P-25 multi-site system (which plays havoc with scanners- look at what is happening in Johnson County and KC) with sites at the following locaitons. In addition to the P-25 800 equipment, each of the 6 sites will also host a multi-casting VHF paging transmitter.

Primary Site: I-70 & Gage (Existing KDOT tower and primary site for current 800 system)
Southwest Site: 57th & Valencia (Existing SNCO tower and secondary site for current 800 system)
South Central Site: Burnett's Mound (Existing Topeka tower and site of primary VHF fire paging system- was a major site for Topeka PD's 400 MHz radio system prior to moving to 800)
Downtown Site: Rumored to be a site placed on top of the bank building next to the state capitol...
Northwest Site: New tower to be built on county land near Rossville
Southeast Site: New tower site to be built for coverage of the southeast area of the county- as of yet I have not heard an actual location- though it will have to be well into the county to get away from the tower restrictions set by Forbes Field.
 

sabo

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Damm when I left SCSO they were on 39.58 and 39.70..I guess Iam showing my age.
 

mancow

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Why are so many more sites needed? Are there currently coverage issues? I figured they would just swap out the equipment.
 

n0lqt

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Why are so many more sites needed? Are there currently coverage issues? I figured they would just swap out the equipment.

Most local agency administrators demand "basement level coverage" county line to county line (like they had that with their old systems half the time anyway!) when they start planning the switch to something like KSICS. The vendors are more than happy to oblige as long as someone pays the bill. (i.e. DHS, also known as "We the People...") I've also heard this argument used as why not to switch to a new system, "It would take eight tower sites to give us good coverage!"

I think what it comes down to is they already have the grant money and they tell the vendors, "This is how much we have. Design us a system." If they have enough $$ for three sites, amazingly, that number will give them "great" coverage. If they have enough for eight sites, then that's exactly how many they need to get "great" coverage....
 

KAA951

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Why are so many more sites needed? Are there currently coverage issues? I figured they would just swap out the equipment.

The existing system has a number of dead zones - especially in buildings downtown and along the southeast side of the county through the Wakarusa River valley. They have also been sold on the idea that you get less coverage per tower with P-25. Didn't Johnson County more than double their tower sites when they went to P-25 too?
 

dgruver911

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The existing system has a number of dead zones - especially in buildings downtown and along the southeast side of the county through the Wakarusa River valley. They have also been sold on the idea that you get less coverage per tower with P-25. Didn't Johnson County more than double their tower sites when they went to P-25 too?

Sedgwick County is doubling the number of towers as well when they upgrade.
 

jayhwker01

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p25

When will they be adding more repeaters? I live in Edwardsville KS and cannot hear any JOCO FD dispatch and cannot hear most hospitals.
 

cinsu

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When will they be adding more repeaters? I live in Edwardsville KS and cannot hear any JOCO FD dispatch and cannot hear most hospitals.

I believe you are looking for the Johnson County P25 system thread. This thread is regarding a system in Shawnee County. Topeka area. However I believe the Shawnee County should be in the property acquisition and construction phase. I heard a completion date of June 22, 2013 for the system recently.

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JTR604

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I to live in Edwardsville and have the same issue I have found that if you find a certain place in your home you can still pick JOCO FD Dispatch and their tac channels. I am using a home patrol scanner and I also purchased an antenna off ebay that seems to work better than the stock antenna. Hope this helps.
 

JTR604

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If you can not found the talk groups let me know and I will see if I can post them for you.
 

cinsu

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The existing system has a number of dead zones - especially in buildings downtown and along the southeast side of the county through the Wakarusa River valley. They have also been sold on the idea that you get less coverage per tower with P-25. Didn't Johnson County more than double their tower sites when they went to P-25 too?

Last night and today numerous units on the fringe (Sheriff and Rural Fire) have been complaining about signal issues. I am about 2 miles direct line of sight from the prime site at 200 Gage and am having signal issues on an outside antenna. ~10 months left!
 

GB1952

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IT WOULD BE NICE IF ALL THE CHEIFs HAD HIS WAY OF THINKING,THEIR ARE SOME THINGS WE NEED TO HEAR AND SOMETHINGS WE DONT NEED TO HEAR.
 

jayhwker01

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JTR - Which scanner do you have? Pretty cool we live in the same vicinity.
 
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