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Kenwood & EF Johnson Forum - For discussion of land mobile radio products manufactured by Kenwood or EF Johnson. For discussion of Kenwood Amateur Radio Equipment, please use the Amateur Radio Equipment forum.

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2016, 5:58 PM
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The Plastic used for the portable and mobile screen will eventually get full of scratches, we have had to replace control heads due to the amount of complains on radios that were only a few months old. Glass should have been used instead of plastic.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2016, 6:06 PM
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Default Issues noticed

I believe the NX5000 radios are feauture rich and are a good radio for their price point. Definitely not the best RF performing radio available, but still good for the price. So far what I have observed over time is the following:

Desense issue on mobiles when the system downlink is weak; a radio transmitting near another unit will cause the receiving radio to desense and mute missing the transmission. Side by side comparisons with Moto or Tait do not yield the same results

Speaker mic cord is too long and wraps around officer's gun

Menu items dissapear when a unit ID is displayed on the screen, causing functions such as D/A to become inop.

Screen on mobile scrathes to easily.

I think the majority of the issues may be fixed with future firmware releases, however the desense issue is hardware based
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2016, 7:21 PM
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I agree with everyone on the display scratching issue. I work in an industrial environment (a railroad) and keeping the screen from getting scratched isn't possible.

My addition for "could use improvement" is the delay in the receive audio path opening up.

Even with battery saver turned off and a channel being carrier squelch with no other signaling, when the radio has been idle for a little while, radio transmissions get clipped. It would sound like the battery save feature, but again.. it's off!

It's worse when a channel is set for mixed mode receive, so I'm going to have to think it has something to do with the DSP and A/D, D/A conversion that must take place in the unit.

Older NX series radios in this circumstance seem to assume a transmission to be analog first, then switch over to the digital vocoder upon detection.. the 5000 series behaves as if it tries to figure out what the signal is before acting, hence the delays and differences depending on how the channel is set up.

I'm curious if the mobiles are like this.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2016, 2:31 AM
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Originally Posted by djavier View Post
The Plastic used for the portable and mobile screen will eventually get full of scratches, we have had to replace control heads due to the amount of complains on radios that were only a few months old. Glass should have been used instead of plastic.
It's typical for Kenwood. Use sreen protectors from tablet PCs. $2 for 8 radios or something. Use clear and glossy film, but not matt.
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Old 12-07-2016, 2:42 AM
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Originally Posted by shmget View Post
I remember when the NX-5000 series came out, there was someone who said not to use RX AGC, and it certainly did cause some issues with readability. I tried it now that I have firmware 2.01, and it still makes the sound on LOW and HIGH setting sound very distorted. I turn off AGC and things sound ok. I just find there are some people on NXDN that it would be great to not be adjusting volume all the time.

What about TX AGC? I have that turned on, and no one has complained about my audio. Do most people keep it on or off?
It's stronly recommeded to use both AGC to avoid cipping/overmodulation.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by djavier View Post
I believe the NX5000 radios are feauture rich and are a good radio for their price point. Definitely not the best RF performing radio available, but still good for the price. So far what I have observed over time is the following:

Desense issue on mobiles when the system downlink is weak; a radio transmitting near another unit will cause the receiving radio to desense and mute missing the transmission. Side by side comparisons with Moto or Tait do not yield the same results

Speaker mic cord is too long and wraps around officer's gun

Menu items dissapear when a unit ID is displayed on the screen, causing functions such as D/A to become inop.

Screen on mobile scrathes to easily.

I think the majority of the issues may be fixed with future firmware releases, however the desense issue is hardware based
Wow! Getting ahead of myself as usual I already ordered first NX. USAR teams (Task forces) would be where we would need these radios first if suitable. We travel and rigging interop is ordinary fare for us. We use mototrbo repeaters for field deployment because they're cheap and work (well with preamps). They are run analog for interop since few PS have dmr and we are often using utac/vtac/8tac. When it's just us using dmr would be very nice option and statewide there is a fledgling effort to put up a linked trbo network for task force groups. We have statewide trs but no prcceedure for giving volunteers or other NGO entities ID's or expensive radios. The dmr will give cheap access to these people.
So, lots of simplex, lots of analog and Comm trucks full of radios and acu3000's linking them the NX is starting to look like exactly the wrong tool for the job.
Somebody please say it ain't so!
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 7:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djavier View Post
I believe the NX5000 radios are feature rich and are a good radio for their price point. Definitely not the best RF performing radio available, but still good for the price. So far what I have observed over time is the following:

Desense issue on mobiles when the system downlink is weak; a radio transmitting near another unit will cause the receiving radio to desense and mute missing the transmission. Side by side comparisons with Moto or Tait do not yield the same results

Speaker mic cord is too long and wraps around officer's gun

Menu items disappear when a unit ID is displayed on the screen, causing functions such as D/A to become inop.

Screen on mobile scratches to easily.

I think the majority of the issues may be fixed with future firmware releases, however the desense issue is hardware based


Let me put it like this, and not being a smartass either. I get these all the time.

Desense issue on mobiles when the system downlink is weak; a radio transmitting near another unit will cause the receiving radio to desense and mute missing the transmission. Side by side comparisons with Moto or Tait do not yield the same results

Sounds like Motorola and Tait have deaf receivers or an AGC. Desense and capture are the nature of FM radio. Sounds like ham radio comparison rather than public safety, If public safety, then you need to contact Kenwood Tech support and have a trouble ticket opened up to be investigated.
Then I ask, what are your BENCH MARKS? 50 w, 110w, 45w, 15w, Little information, but you want a BIG RETURN for the remark.
(spark plug problem, I think I have a bad spark plug! mechanic: Which one? Customer: I don't know.)

Speaker mic cord is too long and wraps around officer's gun
To short, to long… What length do they want? What if the officer is tall?
Did you order the Public Safety Mic or the stock coiled mic?

Menu items disappear when a unit ID is displayed on the screen, causing functions such as D/A to become inop.
What’s more important? If I’m looking at the display and an emergency call comes in with UID I would want to be able to read it. OR turn off the Caller ID all together.

Screen on mobile scratches to easily.
What is scratching it? Need to quantify what is causing the scratches. There is also compound that will take the scratches out of the surface unless you gouged it. When in a center console in a patrol vehicle,
things get thrown around at 110 mph and you come to a 90 degree turn at 75 mph.

I think the majority of the issues may be fixed with future firmware releases, however the desense issue is hardware based

See first comment; we (JVCKenwood) make improvements and fix bugs, etc. over the life of the product. There was something about two mobiles operating close to each other but remember desense is desense. If you overload the other radio receiver, then you have basically deafened it. Example: Put on sunglasses and take a quick glance at the sun. Take off the sunglasses and stare at the sun. We all know when you on scene, ONE OR THE OTHER UNITS is going to blank out the others if there is not enough separation between TX and RX. Ham radio, is .600 KHz split, no brainer there. Public safety, should not have any issues unless they are under 1 MHz split, then you will desense. NO MATTER WHO'S BRAND OF RADIO.


Evans
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 7:27 PM
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Evans, John Vasquez and Kenwood have been working with us on the desense issue, It looks like they have it solved. We only service public safety. The radios had plenty of Channel spacing. It is what it is with the mics. All I can donis put them out there and listen to what the customers tell. Either way we are still selling plenty of these units.

The issue with the screen scratching is just the fact that plastic was used instead of glass. The radios that these units replaced were in cruisers for over 10 years and the screens still look like new. 1 month in and the KCH-20 is full of scratches.
I am not complaining, as I believe in you get what you pay for, and the customer understands that too.
It's glass VS. Plastic

Never the less Kenwood owned up to the desense issue after many test. It just took to long and now the customer no longer a Kenwood fan and is now buying other brand.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 7:27 PM
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Originally Posted by otobmark View Post
Wow! Getting ahead of myself as usual I already ordered first NX. USAR teams (Task forces) would be where we would need these radios first if suitable. We travel and rigging interop is ordinary fare for us. We use mototrbo repeaters for field deployment because they're cheap and work (well with preamps). They are run analog for interop since few PS have dmr and we are often using utac/vtac/8tac. When it's just us using dmr would be very nice option and statewide there is a fledgling effort to put up a linked trbo network for task force groups. We have statewide trs but no procedure for giving volunteers or other NGO entities ID's or expensive radios. The dmr will give cheap access to these people.
So, lots of simplex, lots of analog and Comm trucks full of radios and acu3000's linking them the NX is starting to look like exactly the wrong tool for the job.
Somebody please say it ain't so!
First, all the UTAC, Vtac, and 7/8TAC channels are analog.

You're going to have your die hard i want to sleep in motorola's bed, Tait, Harris, Hytera, Kenwood, RITRON <blah>, and even as far as Beaufong..... (shot your self now) because funding is at a stand still.

Kenwood NXDN, Conventional, has better a receive ability at 6.25 than DMR. By 7-10 miles. (repeater use)
Kenwood Trunking Gen 1 or Gen 2, I could go on and on here but, multi-site, multi agency, pros and cons.
DMR (1), repeaters are 12.5 Digital repeaters. No 6.25 about that, not today.
DMR (2), ETSI standards are used with all vendors in conventional mode only. You talk about CapPlus, and all that crap, that is NOT A DMR STANDARD. That is called Vendor Locking.
DMR (3), Has a ton more id's then NXDN, so what. Show me an agency 1 agency that has 65,000+ radios
for single department on a single fleet. Are you giving radios out to all the residents of Montana? not that many people out there, and you still have room for more (HA HA HA)

FPP, This is really for techs and those who have a need for it's use, like a LT or SGT on a task force who
jumps from agency to agency in a wide area and needs to dial in conventional information on the fly.
For Trunking purposes, CPS ONLY. and for a good reason too. FPP is only a conventional tool.

Encryption, pros, cons, Kenwood has 4 key DES built in others you have to order it or the board. moot point.

dependability, every one will say I got the best brick in the wall! yeah, you have not met me then. I tear up stuff like it's chump change, I am a field service tech, my NX5300 gets the worst abuse you might even commit me for saying it... so far I think I have a slightly concave shaped radio cause if I touch it just right, the battery beeps at me.... the xpr6550 I have with no display, I leave it in the box, broke the case
twice, battery does not hold up.... yeah, little abuse, and my kenwood laughs at it like a sand box bully.

Talk to the hard core users of the radios. I am glad I got weaned off Mother M 15 years ago to KWD. Cheaper in several areas like cables, software, and dependability.
My two cents, Look at the Kenwood NX-5000 website. Plenty of information there for you to see.
Go to a dealer, look at it. Ask to see the mobile. Heck I can, in a bit, do a video on the who kit.
I have the 3 deck with single advanced head. (photos in the forum too).

You CAN SPEND BIGGER, but you can't buy BETTER.
50 watts of any brand will only talk as far as 50 watts of anything else.
It's all about how well your technical group / shop built the system or site.

Evans
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Old 03-21-2017, 8:54 AM
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Originally Posted by kd4efm View Post
First, all the UTAC, Vtac, and 7/8TAC channels are analog.

You're going to have your die hard i want to sleep in motorola's bed, Tait, Harris, Hytera, Kenwood, RITRON <blah>, and even as far as Beaufong..... (shot your self now) because funding is at a stand still.

Kenwood NXDN, Conventional, has better a receive ability at 6.25 than DMR. By 7-10 miles. (repeater use)
Kenwood Trunking Gen 1 or Gen 2, I could go on and on here but, multi-site, multi agency, pros and cons.
DMR (1), repeaters are 12.5 Digital repeaters. No 6.25 about that, not today.
DMR (2), ETSI standards are used with all vendors in conventional mode only. You talk about CapPlus, and all that crap, that is NOT A DMR STANDARD. That is called Vendor Locking.
DMR (3), Has a ton more id's then NXDN, so what. Show me an agency 1 agency that has 65,000+ radios
for single department on a single fleet. Are you giving radios out to all the residents of Montana? not that many people out there, and you still have room for more (HA HA HA)

FPP, This is really for techs and those who have a need for it's use, like a LT or SGT on a task force who
jumps from agency to agency in a wide area and needs to dial in conventional information on the fly.
For Trunking purposes, CPS ONLY. and for a good reason too. FPP is only a conventional tool.

Encryption, pros, cons, Kenwood has 4 key DES built in others you have to order it or the board. moot point.

dependability, every one will say I got the best brick in the wall! yeah, you have not met me then. I tear up stuff like it's chump change, I am a field service tech, my NX5300 gets the worst abuse you might even commit me for saying it... so far I think I have a slightly concave shaped radio cause if I touch it just right, the battery beeps at me.... the xpr6550 I have with no display, I leave it in the box, broke the case
twice, battery does not hold up.... yeah, little abuse, and my kenwood laughs at it like a sand box bully.

Talk to the hard core users of the radios. I am glad I got weaned off Mother M 15 years ago to KWD. Cheaper in several areas like cables, software, and dependability.
My two cents, Look at the Kenwood NX-5000 website. Plenty of information there for you to see.
Go to a dealer, look at it. Ask to see the mobile. Heck I can, in a bit, do a video on the who kit.
I have the 3 deck with single advanced head. (photos in the forum too).

You CAN SPEND BIGGER, but you can't buy BETTER.
50 watts of any brand will only talk as far as 50 watts of anything else.
It's all about how well your technical group / shop built the system or site.

Evans
I agree with a lot of this that has been posted. I have been using Motorola for over 20 years. I have several of their radios. They are, in deed, great radios. But, I think Motorola has gotten a little to big, and a little to greedy for their own good. I have recently purchased a NX5700/5800 with the single, enhanced control head. I am waiting for it to arrive. This will be my first Kenwood radio that I have owned. I am currently running XTL5000's in VHF and in UHF. Now, if you don't know much about Motorola, these mobiles are older and only do analog and P25. Depending on what option code you ordered when the radio was purchased, will dictate what you got for options in the radio. Now, you can pay a fee to Motorola and have the radios flashed to additional options. However, Motorola has taken a firm stance on not putting DMR capabilities in their APX line. The APX line is their newest line. It is their most advanced line of radios, in my opinion ever! But, with the price tag behind the APX, its tough to spend that kind of money and still, not have a truly interoperable radio.

The Kenwood NX-5000 line, on the other hand, has figured it out. The radio I purchased allows me to have DMR, analog, P25 and Trunking ALL IN ONE CHASSIS!!! That is huge for me. On a normal day with Motorola, I would have to a total of 3 radios, (1 APX7500 VHF/UHF for P25, XPR5550 UHF for DMR and XPR5550 VHF for DMR) to get what I can get out of one control head.

Also, I am a firm believer of having the different bands separated by different chassis. With the new Motorola APX8500, all your eggs are in one basket; and you still do not have DMR or LTR in the radio. If you have an issue with one band or another, the whole radio comes out of service and you are now dead in the water.

Now, I am not familiar with Kenwood's pricing on accessories, but a replacement speaker mic for an APX portable can run you between $200 and $400, give or take. Motorola's flat rate on their service is expensive. If I were to send my XTL5000 to Motorola for service, for them to put their hands on the radio, I was looking at a minimum of $399, not including shipping. The APX line is at least $500 or more!!

To me, that is outrageous. Just my two cents. After reading the other forum on the NX-5000 line, I'm thinkin that this radio will be a good choice for me and it will exceed my expectations.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:31 AM
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Are they fixed Equazer that never worked in 2.x firmware? It would be funny if no one wants to notice it for a year.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:43 AM
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Are they fixed Equazer that never worked in 2.x firmware? It would be funny if no one wants to notice it for a year.
Mr. Justice,
Kenwood told me just a few seconds ago, your dealer has not "HAS NOT" filed a technical issue report.
Please contact your dealer and have them submit the issue with your findings that you posted here several months ago.

Thank you,
Evans
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Old 03-21-2017, 1:08 PM
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I do not wish to work instead of Kenwood. Dealers will not work instead of Kenwood also. If Kenwood don't want to fix a lot of described issues, they lose money. Not me.

Also, as was told recently, I don't want to know your opinion. A am talking with open-minded radio uses, but not with blinded dealer.

Thanks for understanding.
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Old 03-21-2017, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by N3AAG View Post
I do not wish to work instead of Kenwood. Dealers will not work instead of Kenwood also. If Kenwood don't want to fix a lot of described issues, they lose money. Not me.

Also, as was told recently, I don't want to know your opinion. A am talking with open-minded radio uses, but not with blinded dealer.

Thanks for understanding.
N3AAG: He is saying that Kenwood has not been made aware of the problem - no official report made by your dealer - so, therefore, they won't be working on a fix for it. I understand your frustration that something isn't working as you feel it should but if they haven't been made aware then it won't get fixed (they do not monitor these forums nor should they be expected to).

Posting here is not making Kenwood aware of the issue.

KD4EFM is a source very very close to Kenwood - his input and opinion should be highly valued.
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Old 03-22-2017, 1:59 AM
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Yes, I understand. So, let it be as now. Their problem.

If they are not interested in collecting bugs data. Anyway, any dealer from here can check Eq and report. If nobody did it, looks like it's intentional Kenwood strategy. We don't see anything / our dealers have never reported. So, everything is fine.
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Old 03-22-2017, 7:52 AM
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"Intentional Strategy " huh? SMH.

Really seems like it's time to sell your Kenwood "junk" and move on. They apparently cannot make equipment that will suit your operating needs nor can they read your mind to fix the bugs in what you own.



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Old 03-22-2017, 3:38 PM
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"Intentional Strategy " huh? SMH.

Really seems like it's time to sell your Kenwood "junk" and move on. They apparently cannot make equipment that will suit your operating needs nor can they read your mind to fix the bugs in what you own.
One question. Why they made Eq and didn't tested it for 1 year or something? Why nobody from this board, including The Best Ever KW dealer, can't test it and share results? Who are all these owners who can't do a simple test?
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Old 03-22-2017, 3:49 PM
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Originally Posted by N3AAG View Post
One question.
Quite frankly, I think you are beating a dead horse.

The process is simple. Document your problem(s) with your dealer. Ask your dealer to submit the problem(s) to Kenwood. Follow-up with your dealer to see if they get any response from Kenwood.

Given that Kenwood has no record of your dealer submitting your problem(s), we can only assume that either you never mentioned them to your dealer or your dealer never submitted them to Kenwood.

Your problem(s) can't be fixed by the people in this forum. Talking about your problem(s) here, while potentially useful for the other forum participants to know, does not solve your problem(s).
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Old 03-22-2017, 3:53 PM
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Who are all these owners who can't do a simple test?
I can only speak for myself, but I try to make time to help others out, but that's not always possible. The paying job comes first. I'll read back through this thread and see if it's something I can attempt to recreate. If I can, and if I have the time, I'll let someone at Kenwood know.

As for the issue not being reported, that's an problem between you and your dealer. Blaming Kenwood for something they were not alerted to is pretty lame. Being rough on those that are trying to assist doesn't make people want to spend time helping you.
Sure, if Kenwood was/is aware, I'm sure they'd fix it. But, these firmware/software updates take time and for something relatively minor, it's got to wait in line with all the other changes. Might be it's in process, might be they are not aware.

I can understand your frustration, I'd feel the same way if my dealer lied to me. Actually had something funny happen once. Instead of getting mad at Kenwood, I called the local Kenwood rep and asked what was going on. Found out the dealer was playing games with the financial stuff and was using money from my order to buy equipment for someone else's project.
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Old 03-22-2017, 4:06 PM
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...I'd feel the same way if my dealer lied to me.
Within the Kenwood LMR world, if a customer has an issue with a dealer, what recourse does the customer have?

In the amateur radio world, if a customer doesn't like a dealer, they can go to another dealer since the dealers don't have exclusive territories. But, I'm pretty sure the Kenwood LMR dealers have assigned territories, so it may not be an easy thing to just take your business elsewhere.
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