RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Commercial, Professional Radio and Personal Radio > Kenwood & EF Johnson Forum


Kenwood & EF Johnson Forum - For discussion of land mobile radio products manufactured by Kenwood or EF Johnson. For discussion of Kenwood Amateur Radio Equipment, please use the Amateur Radio Equipment forum.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2018, 3:23 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: CO, USA
Posts: 68
Default TK-810 reverse engineering programming...

It seems this particular old model was some sort of either low production or an OEM for something, so there seems to be so little information on the web about it. Anyway I ended up acquiring the base of one and now wonder how to program it.

After painstaking googling, one result I saw is that there is a KPT-20 or something around that programs the device. Unfortunately I don't think I can acquire one, so after being inspired by a youtube video on a different product, I decided to go the other route: directly hacking the EEPROM. It appears to be a common 93C46 1Kbit serial.

After painstakingly desoldering the EEPROM from the radio, I noticed the programming port on the board is actually connected to the EEPROM through 10K resistors. If anyone is interested, the 8 pin slot connector that's visible after removing the covers is labeled 1-8 on the connector and

Port pin - 93c46 pin - description
1 - 4: DO output TO KPT-20
2 - 3: DI input FROM KPT-20
3 - 2: CLK
4 - 1: CS
5 - nc
6 - through LDO?: VCC
7 - 5: VSS
8 - nc

It seems to be a card edge type connector, a bit of PCB with fingers on each side may work. I am not 100% sure how pin 6 needs to be connected, there is one surface mount device that power appears to go through before hitting VCC of the 93C46. VSS goes directly to the 93C46 ground, and the others are through 10K resistors. Because of how this is hooked up, the KPT-20 appears to only be able to program the 93C46 and not able to control the radio. And this also means that any generic 93C46 programmer should be able to read/write the EEPROM without needing to desolder it. I may have to go through this route because despite there now being a socket, swapping the chip for testing will get tiresome fast.

Anyone happen to have some dumps of this EEPROM and how (you think?) the radio is programmed? I was hoping perhaps with this info, reverse engineering the content would be a feasible way to bring life back into these old radios? I have yet to read my EEPROM as I just found out my chip programmer computer died. Anyway, I was planning to write random values into the EEPROM and use a DMM/frequency counter on the VCOs to see what they do.

Other things I found about my radio: its channel selector is mechanically locked to two channels, but this restriction can be removed and the lone 7-seg display will count 1 to 9, then 0, 1, 2, and back to 1 -- meaning that it's trying to display 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 but only the last digit. There's a 10-pin spot I may be able to solder in another 7-seg LED. Unsure if it's CC or CA yet, will get there later.

I was intending to see if I can use this for 70cm ham if possible. However I'm not licensed yet (still studying!) so I will need to keep a "low profile" (well, more like, if I'm forced to use the RF for reverse engineering, I'll have to dump the RF into a dummy load and not into the air.)

Thanks for any insight or perhaps this is a way to kill my VCOs/etc. if I try to reverse engineer this way?

Anyone know or have specs to this radio, and whether it's worth to reuse like this?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2018, 1:28 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: CO, USA
Posts: 68
Default

I have found that the TKR-820 eeprom hacks presented on the web works with the TK-810!!! However there's not enough information to make heads or tails for tone generation for repeater hookup (since the TKR-820 is a repeater and the tone handling is done in another EEPROM). I guess getting CTCSS working would be the newest challenge!

I also note that the reception of some frequencies programmed are really weak for some reason or another, at least compared to the sensitivity of my other radio (the icom).

So far no damage to the radio, or at least as far as I know, and no idea if transmitting works, at least until I can build a dummy load (and acquire a microphone with PTT button) to test ... EEPROM dumps with known programming are still welcome!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2018, 9:28 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the 'patch
Posts: 4,971
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by needairtime View Post
I have found that the TKR-820 eeprom hacks presented on the web works with the TK-810!!! However there's not enough information to make heads or tails for tone generation for repeater hookup (since the TKR-820 is a repeater and the tone handling is done in another EEPROM). I guess getting CTCSS working would be the newest challenge!

I also note that the reception of some frequencies programmed are really weak for some reason or another, at least compared to the sensitivity of my other radio (the icom).

So far no damage to the radio, or at least as far as I know, and no idea if transmitting works, at least until I can build a dummy load (and acquire a microphone with PTT button) to test ... EEPROM dumps with known programming are still welcome!
For tone generation, if you can not figure it out, this: http://www.com-spec.com/tone_signali...S%20Manual.pdf may be of help. external board, that would have to be interfaced.

As for sensitivity, the receiver likely needs to be aligned. the bandwidth with out retuning, is likely very narrow.
__________________
Interoperatablity is not a technology, it is an attitude!!!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2018, 10:02 AM
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 2,146
Default

Hello,

The repeater has a tone decoder as well as a tone encoder, so it is slightly more complicated. The tone is likely encoded with the frequency information in the eeprom in the radio rather than a separate board.

From the repeater description, pin 6 holds the microprocessor in reset so that it does not try to access the eeprom at the same time it is being programed.

CN1 on the TKR-820 display unit is the programing connector and has a similar pinout.
Pin 1 DO Data Output
Pin 2 DI Data Input
Pin 3 CLK Clock
Pin 4 EN1 Enable 1
Pin 5 EN2 Enable 2 (Not Used)
Pin 6 RST Reset Grounding to Pin 7 will put the processor in Reset
Pin 7 GND Ground
Pin 8 NC Not Connected

73 Eric
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2018, 10:50 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: CO, USA
Posts: 68
Default

Interesting. I was kind of surprised, then again I shouldn't be surprised because they are different manufacturers.

I suppose the intent of this effort is to program both radios into the ham bands. Both of them also seemed to have been originally programmed into the 460MHz region before I started futzing with it. The experimental frequency I wanted to use is closer to 450MHz, so there is a significant jump, which indeed agree with possibly needing realignment - but the icom radio was able to take the jump without much difficulty. This is despite seeming to have three different versions of the hardware and the desired frequency is outside of the suspected version that I have.

As an experiment I programmed in GMRS frequencies, and my FRS radio was able to transmit to both of them loud and clear at 20-30 ft. GMRS frequencies are 462MHz which is much closer to the original programming.

From what I found from the Kenwood KPT-20 documentation, the TK-810 seemingly should be good from 300-520MHz, but that part of the flowchart is really confusing.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2018, 12:49 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: CO, USA
Posts: 68
Default

This is another anomaly that I don't quite understand. There is this board in the tray on the upper side of the radio marked with "TONE" - I wonder if this board handles the CTCSS completely analog?

The CPU board does not appear to have many pins to the radio board, making me suspect there's a possibility this is done in analog, but the KPT-20 documentation implies it can be handled in the eeprom.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2018, 12:55 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the 'patch
Posts: 4,971
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by needairtime View Post
This is another anomaly that I don't quite understand. There is this board in the tray on the upper side of the radio marked with "TONE" - I wonder if this board handles the CTCSS completely analog?

Probably a matrix to select PL. probably canít do split PL. same tone in and out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Interoperatablity is not a technology, it is an attitude!!!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2018, 6:24 PM
Member
  RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boston, Ma
Posts: 2,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by needairtime View Post
This is another anomaly that I don't quite understand. There is this board in the tray on the upper side of the radio marked with "TONE" - I wonder if this board handles the CTCSS completely analog?

The CPU board does not appear to have many pins to the radio board, making me suspect there's a possibility this is done in analog, but the KPT-20 documentation implies it can be handled in the eeprom.
Hello,

The DIP Switches in the picture sets the tone. It is not uncommon for an older radio to only support one PL Tone. You can sometimes see remnants of this today, like both the police and fire using the same PL, or departments in the same mutual aid region all using the same PL. For example, 131.8 is a common PL for BAPERN in my local area.

73 Eric
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2018, 8:49 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: CO, USA
Posts: 68
Default

Oddly enough my guess is that this radio is also set to 131.8 based on the DIP switches.

So perhaps what you guys are saying is my job's done - There's nothing else that lurks in the eeprom that I can configure? Still seems weird that the KPT-20 can program some of these things, but perhaps not on the TK-810...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
programming, reverse engineering, tk-810

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions